EQ Never

tad10 · Aug 5, 2013

Teekey_sl said:
"No one specific role, or pair of roles is integral to unlocking the strategy of defeating each encounter"
.

I read it as this:

You do not need a warrior, cleric and Chanter/DPS to kill X mob.
You can make a group of 5 rangers (who for this hypothetical I will guess have 1 defensive slot filled with a self-heal). The rangers can collectively take out X mob in Y time, using their self-heals.
You can also make a group of 2 tank-ish, 2 dps-ish, 1 support/healer-ish. This group can take out X mob in Z time. Z time = 2/3 of Y time.

Having never played this game, but having played a bunch of similar games, I can predict that the trinity-light group is going to be more efficient. It's not different than LOL. A group of all APC can beat the bots, but it is less efficient than a group with 1 Jungle, 2 APC and Suport, 1 APD, 1 Bruiser or whatever the current meta game is.

tad10 · Aug 5, 2013

Teekey_sl said:
" But it's one method to allow a active defensive tanking style, without making it required to have one or necessarily detrimental to bring one along.

I think the key is the term 'active tanking'. Example: your Paladin is going to be using Bash to stun the target, basically acting as a tank CC. And since he's got armor when a Bash (Sword & Shield weapon skill) fails and the mob knocks him back he only takes limited damage. The mob then runs at the (for example) Wizard that's been ice storming the hell out of him while stunned and whacks him. Paladin warps (movement) to the mob and bashes again, allowing the Wiz to get away and then (if he has energy) casts a heal. Rinse & Repeat.

All speculation, but could be fun if that's how it is implemented. Again, I'm not sure I could take 4-8 hours of this like slower EQ/VG combat.

tad10 · Aug 5, 2013

Dizzam_sl said:
I have also gone from questioning the developer's design decisions to questioning if there is even a game coming in the next 2-3 years.

I believe with respect to some of the details, is that what they talked about will show up, what they didn't talk about may not be in at release. Example is halflings. No mention in the lore. Maybe a race that doesn't show up until later.

With respect to release date:

What I said earlier: Oct 2014 to June 2015 +/- 3-4 months. I heard something. I'm not saying what it is. Just trust me.

Edit: Or not

Boloboy · Aug 5, 2013

Tad did smed drug you and rape you?!?! This thread went from when I saw it before the reveal at 550ish(threads) to now, and I watched the reveal and thought wtf just happened. Where is eq besides taking a few names and now people making money to design things? It looked more like the diablo 3 video`s to me without any A I interaction and crap graphics with cybering(soe emotes). awesome

tad10 · Aug 5, 2013

Boloboy_sl said:
like the diablo 3 video`s to me without any A I interaction and crap graphics with cybering(soe emotes). awesome

No AI in the combat, no AI shown during SOE Live. I did run into Brian Green of StoryBricks at the reveal and asked him a few questions which I've got to write up. Though he couldn't answer the one I was most interested in (about AI Combat) because of NDAs.

Big Phoenix · Aug 5, 2013

Big Flex_sl said:
This guy.

The dude is speaking the truth. You holy trinity bros sound like the catholic church during the middle ages.

Seriously look at yourselves. This thread has descended into nothing but butthurt and salty tears(this thread contains 1/3 of all posts in this forum) over almost nothing. SOE did a piss poor job of showing off EQN and we really dont know shit about it besides vague statements and 5 minutes of video but you fools are all crying your eyes out proclaiming the apocalypse.

Melvin · Aug 5, 2013

tad10_sl said:
2014

LOL

Ambiturner · Aug 5, 2013

Big Phoenix_sl said:
The dude is speaking the truth. You holy trinity bros sound like the catholic church during the middle ages.

Seriously look at yourselves. This thread has descended into nothing but butthurt and salty tears(this thread contains 1/3 of all posts in this forum) over almost nothing. SOE did a piss poor job of showing off EQN and we really dont know shit about it besides vague statements and 5 minutes of video but you fools are all crying your eyes out proclaiming the apocalypse.

You've given us all alot to think about

Teekey · Aug 5, 2013

Big Phoenix_sl said:
crying your eyes out proclaiming the apocalypse.

DISNEYACOLYPSE

Boloboy · Aug 5, 2013

EQnext looks like a arcade game....but at least with eq landmark I can make easy money. Thanks SoE

Pyros · Aug 5, 2013

Teekey_sl said:
DISNEYACOLYPSE

Opacolypse?

Boloboy · Aug 5, 2013

and this is the 3rd iteration of soe`s attempts........wtf

Zindan · Aug 5, 2013

tad10_sl said:
...

Combat Example
-The example I gave of combat is reasonably accurate as of today (things can change). But what I was told seems to differ from McPherson's tweet. I was told that they are getting rid of needing to form a group by finding 1 cleric, 1 tank and 1 DPS/CC because everyone will, in time, have access to those classes (support/healing class, heavy armor class, dps/cc class) and can fill those roles if necessary.

So I think Talisker is being disingenuous with the quote because not only was what I was told just confirmed again, but the various SB combat AI slides/PP around on the Internet support my example. So yes, you don't need the Trinity, because everyone will have access to multiple classes and group formation becomes: "I'll tank/dps this time around, you dps/off-tank and you stay behind us and heal/support and/or range dps" and everyone then selects an appropriate class from their owned classes and an appropriate loadout. What's gone is taunting (obviously this is the big one), pure healers (the other big one) and the need for a specific class, so we'll see how that works out with the AI.

...

Ok, I haven't seen your combat example, or tweets by McPherson or statements by Talisker, but it seems to me that the game will still require (or at least support) the Holy Trinity gameplay. It does not matter if people can play whatever role they want, if in the end they will need to find players willing to play as Tank, DPS, and Heals.

Also...I think the current look of those Kerran/Vah Shir makes WoW Panda's look grim and dark...bad model is bad. Humans look ok though, and the landscapes look good (better scale than EQ2 at least).

Mr Creed · Aug 5, 2013

tad10_sl said:
Earliest release date Sep 2014. Latest June 2015. Heavily dependent on how much players contribute via landmark. Thus the enormous window.

I predict more traditional eq3 announced next year/early 2015 once eqnext beta is humming along. soe would be stupid not to given 80% if the game would already be made in eqn.

Is that based on any snippets of information you coerced out of SOE employees or just your personal opinion?

Siddar · Aug 5, 2013

So I would speculate.

DCUO weapon combat combined with class unlock system that is like opening a new champion in LoL. Aka completely different then the previous class with a very small but highly focused amount of class abilities where you will use basically all of them with no extra class abilities not in use. I'm surprised they didn't say one of the weapon abilities and one of the class abilities would come from a general abilities pool shared by all classes.

Super AI will be similar to LoL champion AI with each class executing a fighting style suited to its abilities. NPC will be spamming abilities constantly just like player do now. Mobs will be grouped together in agro linked bunches so when you engage one you agro them all and it turns quickly into a group versus group fight.

No levels means a quest driven game where doing quests to open new classes is the central timesink of game.

Some classes will likely be SC only bought through store.

It's likely also that PvP battle grounds will be a major part of EQN highend play.

Valderen · Aug 5, 2013

So let me get this straight...

GW2+Minecraft+League of Legends = EQ Next

Just no EQ in that equation?

Lleauaric · Aug 5, 2013

What I think is kinda cool is that SOE is trying to build a world and only do the stuff "god" would do. (Geography, lifeforms, rules of physics, ect) and let players fill in all the stuff "man" would do. (buildings, cities, landmarks, ect). This would be the first actual player build world. This will be the deepest level of immersion I can imagine in a game. Its not just a pretty cool idea, its what every single MMO is going to do following this.

So basically, where we are at is that they have a world. They just don't have the rule set yet.

On Combat:

This gives me worries as well. I think the player base needs to push SOE to make people to make actual choices. Some classes NEED to exclude others. You cant be a paladin/thief or a necro/druid. Additionally, class swap out needs to have a limit on it. Either by timer (Cant switch loadout for 30 mins once selected) or by inventory.

I was thinking about inventory being the most effective way to mediate this and make people choose. What if a person was only able to carry 4 equipped (bound) items at a time, but additionally limited by type. An example is a person is getting ready to go out. He has 4 slots of weapons to fill. He can choose 1 2-handed weapon, representing an item carried on his back (giving access to his heavy melee damage classes or damage oriented spell casters), he can choose 2 medium weapons, represented by weapons/items hung from belt or carried off hand, ie 2 1-handed weapons, or a shield, spellbook, wand or specter) This would give him access to widest array of support classes. The player would then get 1 tertiary slot to fill this would be an (additional) spellbook, a second knife or small weapon, a off hand caster focus item or ammo for ranged weapons.)

This would give each character access to 3 or 4 classes without travelling back to the city/storage area. Being that travel is a part of the game, this would be an effective limiting tool for the mad switching out of classes. 3 classes would seem to be the perfect mix. 2 Primary and 1 "oh fuck we need a replacement" backup. Groups would have to plan and coordinate. "Ok, Ill DPS and CC, and bring back up heals, You tank, heal and bring back up DPS." I think this would be pretty effective and reduce the "soloing in a group" aspect.

Kharza-kzad_sl · Aug 5, 2013

Seems like a very large amount of carrying capacity will be needed to store class related gear. Maybe they will do a magic closet where you put all your armor.

Woolygimp · Aug 5, 2013

I find it laughable that they are billing this game as a sandbox. I say this because when it fails, a lot of people are going to tout this as proof that "sandboxes don't work!" when in fact there's absolutely nothing sandbox-ish about this. It actually has me worried.

It's like they are trying to rebuild Six Flags, and then call it Six Flags Sandbox. But instead of having fun, exhilarating rides... it's going to consist of deflated slip-n-slides and kiddie pools.

Woolygimp · Aug 5, 2013

Oh, and vagueness & "let's poll the community" just reeks of indecisiveness which is an indicator that this game has no foundation and SOE really has very little idea as to how they're actually going to make this game. That alone should be setting alarm bells off in everyone's head. When you create a game, before you start coding, you should have some idea as to the basic tenets of your game.

IT'S LIKE THEY ARE MAKING IT UP AS THEY GO (WINGING IT) and simply saying, "wow, these are cool ideas let's throw them together in a game." Except half the ideas are NOT fucking cool and will not work, much less work together.

This game has no foundation. The developers are basically like, "well... we're not sure how our own game is going to work but... IT SOUNDS COOL AMIRITE?!" And there are people excited about this?

They can't even fucking properly hype in a genre that has been nothing BUT hype for the last 10 years.

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