EQ Never

foop_sl

shitlord
60
0
EQ will be strongly linked to the PS4 and what ever game "controllers" and "innovation" the PS4 will bring on the table.
 

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,215
895
Consoles and EQN come up time to time but I really don't know how I feel about it... FF is the only MMO that really married the two but haven't played enough to form an opinion... Any positives or negatives to this...?
 

Rezz

Mr. Poopybutthole
4,486
3,531
Pancreas' item thoughts echo mine to a degree. I really don't think you should be able to equip every piece of endgame gear and be godlike because of it. I want to see conscious decisions about what is the better piece to equip, not "Lawl it is all/all and 0.0 weight. Grats monks!" type nonsense. What I'd really like to see is a semi-token system. Hear me out before you mmo-hipsters go retard mode.

Imagine you're killing Koi and he(she?!) drops the hybrid spear. Like it is literally nothing but a rot weapon unless you have a paladin/SK there who wants the fucking thing. Now take that item, and let anyone equip it. But! They need to have melee skill of X and a casting skill of Y. Holy shit this might be a wizard spear! For that once a year time they melee because OOM and Vulak is taking too goddamn long to die. The idea, is that you would sort of have to prioritize what you want as opposed to simply taking "the upgrade" in every scenario. Perhaps using the spear means you can't wear your Malev/what the gay paladin's wear/ chestplate. Would the tradeoff be worth it? Effectively, give items a rating and each player a max rating cap that they can put on so that you don't have the hilarious "oh look, dragonskin breeches. EVERYONE ROLL" type scenario. (I really don't remember the name of the pants, but I do remember rogues/monks/druids/shamans/rangers/whatever rolling on fucking Monk pants.)

Then maintain that cap but increase item power slowly through expacs so that you have have progression without needing to mudflate the entire world consistently every time a raid boss is killed.
 

Flipmode

EQOA Refugee
2,091
312
Consoles and EQN come up time to time but I really don't know how I feel about it... FF is the only MMO that really married the two but haven't played enough to form an opinion... Any positives or negatives to this...?
EQOA was awesome on the PS2. Just needed more ram and marketing.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,865
6,822
I would love to lean back on my couch and play mmos in full potato mode. But reality always comes up against the keyboard. Too many control options missing without it and it doesn't hang out well in the living room.
 

Plaid_sl

shitlord
230
0
This happened one occasion that I recall. It was a contested coirnav in early PoP with TMO vs DOA/OOR/DOA 2.0/SEVERED. Our server GM responded to the contested spawn by summoned members from each guild to the arena to fight a 3v3.

This was probably the only time DOA took a spawn by legitimate means from us
 

Flipmode

EQOA Refugee
2,091
312
I would love to lean back on my couch and play mmos in full potato mode. But reality always comes up against the keyboard. Too many control options missing without it and it doesn't hang out well in the living room.
I used the keyboard and the controller in EQOA. Really the keyboard was only for talking though. All actions were done through the controller primarily. I am too used to the keyboard and mouse interface these days but it was more fun to control your character with a controller than a keyboard. At least the movement anyways.
 

Royal

Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
15,077
10,641
More PR hype and no substance.
True enough. Just accept that this is the sort of thing we will get before the official unveil. In Smed's defense (/shudder), that's pretty much what he said earlier. He has never been the point man on revealing game info.
 

Lithose

Buzzfeed Editor
25,946
113,035
Item Power
I have never really liked stats on gear. Having a sword infuse it's wielder with strength or agility seems like a lazy way of extending the level cap. I like items that have unique properties and special powers beyond what anyone would be able to achieve normally. (night vision on a helm, a sword that fights along side you, bow that shoots flaming arrows ect.) The effectiveness of these items should depend on the characters skill with that particular type of item and the player's ingenuity.

That being said, I think these types of magical items should also be rare and there should be a limit as to how many ungodly items a character can equip at a time.
I don't think the problem is with +stats. I think the problem is with the linear and narrow relationship those stats share with character roles and other elements within the game. It's also the fact that items carry too broad a range of stats, leading to players not so much picking the correct choice of item to upgrade, but more picking the item with bigger stats.

I wish statistics themselves played variable roles depending on your talents. Like for example, Strength increases Damage and Stamina HP--lets say that's "base". But as you select talents, or traits, or even collect items, those stats become augmented--it can even extend into what buffs you have as well. The point being that statistics should have as much depth as clicky items--+10 strength shouldn't be just +more damage.

Just a quick example...Lets take a fictional "Warrior". And lets say your game has 3 stats. (Stamina, Agility, Strength). Stamina is +HP, Strength is +Damage, Agility is +Critical Chance/Damage....But that's just base. The reality is when a character is built with talents...It should more like this.

Strength= Reduced Cool Down on X/Y skill (Depending on talents), Increased duration of "Berserk" or other abilities, Increases Armor Penetration against X or Y type targets (The game would have A dozen or so target types), Increases Jumping distance, Reduces encumbrance effect on dodge (Yeah, small features like this would be in--more variables in order to allow more minutia in crafting your character). However, unlike now--these ability augmentations would NOT be linear. +1 strength wouldn't increase damage of "Big Strike" ability by X amount, instead it would be specific numbers needed for each tier. There would be breaks and expenditures to keep the stats unique, and force you to work your gear as a concert of stats, not just +good.

I understand the above is an incredibly difficult design to keep on top of, especially in light of expansions. But I believe that unique character feeling you get from having all the variables and NOT having things work linearly, so you have to make hard choices depending on your current load out and talents, would make experimentation and character attachment all the more important.

Of course for the above to work well. A couple things would need to happen.

1.) Items could only contain a small number of stats vs the amount in the game. If you have 5 stats in your game that affect all classes. Only 2 should be available on any one piece of gear. Selecting what stat to build should be akin to designing a deck in a card game--the choices you make to fill the slot should be real and precious and the variable outcome should keep you experimenting.

2.) Rewards should be given for remaining in your spec. This does NOT mean specs should be unable to be changed. BUT rather I think it means it should work like UO did. If you want to respec, you need to earn your talent points (Or skill points) back. So, if you take 10 points out to put them somewhere else, you need to earn a few levels of Exp through grinding. You can bank these extra "respec" levels, for future use. What the respec cost would do is add enough effort to make new builds exciting, almost a gamble. While also leaving your character still open enough to change and try new things without starting over.

Just my .02$...The only reason stats are boring is because the designers made them boring. Yes, stats need to grow bigger to remain better in future expansions. But no, they don't have to be just +gooder. For a warrior +10 strength should not just be +% better. +10 strength might be worse in some situations than even +10 agility, depending on how you've stacked your gear and loaded out your talents thus far...Of course in other situations, +100 agility might not be as good as even +1 more strength. These variables and odd combos are what keep people testing. And that's how you make stats as unique as clickies, but letting the numbers have vastly different effects depending on how the totality of the number relates to all the unique points of your character.

Edit: And also, I'm not saying all stats need to be good for all classes. No. I'm saying all stats should have some value for all classes--obviously Warriors would have more abilities that value strength/stamina, BUT due to certain breaks/soft caps and other variables, there would be cases where a piece of +strength equipment wouldn't be as good as alternating that gear with another stat.
 

Fyro

Golden Squire
127
0
I don't know why, but I would rather play EQ than about any other game.

I have been 3 boxing EQemu the last few days and having a blast. The game is fun, still. Which blows my mind.

Every game I have played since EQ has been a flop for me- I play, but the drive isn't there. I just hope Eqnext isn't shitastic.

All you guys talking about PVP scare the shit out of me. Go play Guild Wars 2, or WAR, or EVE, WoW, or any FPS.

EQ was fun because of the unique PVE abilities, making everything the same would be boring, they have tried that a million times in other games.
 

Pancreas

Vyemm Raider
1,125
3,818
I don't think the problem is with +stats. I think the problem is with the linear and narrow relationship those stats share with character roles and other elements within the game. It's also the fact that items carry too broad a range of stats, leading to players not so much picking the correct choice of item to upgrade, but more picking the item with bigger stats....

(shortened for readability)

....Edit: And also, I'm not saying all stats need to be good for all classes. No. I'm saying all stats should have some value for all classes--obviously Warriors would have more abilities that value strength/stamina, BUT due to certain breaks/soft caps and other variables, there would be cases where a piece of +strength equipment wouldn't be as good as alternating that gear with another stat.
Flexible Stat System (UO modified)
I like the idea of working in a finite space to get the most out of a character. Having a hard limit on the total amount of stats like UO forces players to pick and chose what is important to their build.

I however don't like the grinding aspect of stat increases. You should get a few stat points as you gain experience and they should increase the stat of your choosing instantly. I like your earning respec points idea. A player can choose to divert earned experience towards a respec point. Each respec point takes the same amount of exp to acquire where new stat points will require more and more experience. So a player slowly accumulates a larger pool of stats to work with, but takes time to mold and shape them into exactly what they want. Also, allow players to bank a small pool of respec points.

So what would stats do?
Stats determine skill effectiveness.
Stats increase resource pool amounts.
Stats determine how effective each of the ways a character interacts with the world are. Each method of interaction would have a governing skill. Jumping, running, swimming, talking, bribing, bartering, brawling, wearing armor, swinging weapons ect. Each skill gets an increase or is multiplied by a governing stat or stats. So simply by increasing stats and nothing else, a character will become better at many different things.

However, not all skills are available to a character right away, and skills can increase in rank through use, making them even better than what increasing their parent stat would do alone. Which brings up the next point.

Experience Types and how leveling up would work
So experience comes in two flavors. Stat experience and Skill experience.

Stat experience accumulates whenever you take some sort of successful action in the game. Doesn't have to be combat related. The list of things that add to stat points would be numerous and closely follow all of the areas covered by player skills. So if there are combat skills, kills in combat earn stat experience. If there are political and trade skills, successful dealings and trades also earn experience. The amount each action awards would attempt to normalize the effort of the player. So the rate of reward per amount of time invested would hopefully be the same.

Essentially it would become like the cert system in Planetside 2. You just do your thing and every so often you get a point. Or, this stat experience can be turned around and used to earn a respec point in order to rework a stat. The amount of experience needed to earn a respec point would generally be less than the amount needed to earn an additional point.

Skill experience is earned on a per skill basis. Use a skill, that skill gains experience and eventually ranks up. More advanced skills will require pre-requisite levels of a basic skills. There are no skill points to assign, but most skills must be gained from a trainer before they can be used or rank up. Skills do not decay, once you learn something it sticks with you. However stats determine skill effectiveness. So even if you knew every skill in the game at max rank, you would only be able to be good at some of them due to the limited nature of the stat point pool.

So, increase stats that bolster your chosen skills. Use your, now more effective, skills to gain more stat experience AND rank up your skill. Spend new stat points and train more advanced skills. Repeat.

How does gear factor in?

The gear a character uses determines what skills can be used for most combat abilities. You can't backstab without a dagger, you can't attempt a snipe shot without a bow, Wands and staffs increase the casting characteristics of a spell. A wand can lower cast time, A staff add an aoe effect, or create multiple projectiles, a focus item could regen resources with every cast, ect. Armor increases survival but interferes with most acrobatic and movement type skills. There are no stats on the gear, the gear simply acts as a focus for the skills and modifies how they behave.

That's not to say gear wouldn't have attributes to consider. What an item did and what skills could be used with it would be the most important. However, the material the item was constructed from, it's weight, it's effectiveness (AC, Damage ect.) would all have to be considered as well. It's just the vast majority of items would essentially be white quality, non magical stuff. It would still have degrees of quality.

Magical items on the other hand, would have special powers all their own. A bow that requires no arrows, or a cloak that causes the wearer to shadowstep away if they sheath their weapon (with a hefty cooldown or use per day). That sort of stuff.

So, stats modify skills effectiveness/ power. Gear modifies skills behavior. Magic items add new abilities to the mix. If any stats were to wind up on gear, it would have to be something really special and would be limited to a small increase of a few points. Maybe only jewelry can have stat modifiers, or something like that.

Anyways, as a final note, I don't expect any of my ideas to make it into EQNext. I expect it to be a micro-transaction hell of sorts to be quite honest. I am simply spewing my thoughts on this forum for the hell of it really. Helps me realize what I would try to create if I decided to pull a Schilling and make my own game. Thankfully I will never have enough money to fail like that.
 

Zehnpai

Molten Core Raider
399
1,245
Anyways, as a final note, I don't expect any of my ideas to make it into EQNext.
I had a certain game dev once contact me who said something to the effect of, "Your ideas would be great if the playerbase wasn't retarded." We talked for a bit and it really shaped the way I think about things like this. I used to have an idea for itemization which was basically gemming/enchanting on acid. He pointed out to me that you have to take into consideration that if you give the average player more then 2 choices and he'll shit himself. Picking a race and class he said is already one of the most daunting tasks for a new player it turns out.

It's really helped me shape how I think about stuff.
 

Jait

Molten Core Raider
5,035
5,317
I've had about two dozen "game" devs tell me my ideas were genius as I'm sure about 50 others on this board have.

However, I was smart enough to know the difference between being placated and admired.
 

2002User

Bronze Knight of the Realm
310
43
Not sure why anyone is expecting this game to be good. Look at every title SOE has launched since EverQuest. Total flops. EverQuest wasn't even good. The great parts of EverQuest happened by accident. If you want to relive EverQuest go play on EQ Emu, EQ Mac, or wait for EQClassic.

I had my expectations up for PlanetSide 2. Despite PlanetSide 1 being pretty much a failure, it was an amazing game which had awesome tactics and base design. Enter PlanetSide 2, a terrible Battlefield clone on a huge persistent map with less depth than the original PlanetSide. PlanetSide 1 is more ahead of it's time in design and thinking than PlanetSide 2 is. PlanetSide 2 is a complete zerg fest with no way to defend bases or do anything constructive besides kill kill kill.

EverQuest Next being a large sandbox game sounds cool, and I'll play it if it's good. But come on, it's SOE. It won't be.
 

supertouch_sl

shitlord
1,858
3
where do people get the idea that everything in eq was an accident? it had its bugs and i'm sure things like fd pulling weren't expected, but how do you know what the developers intended or not?
 

Royal

Connoisseur of Exotic Pictures
15,077
10,641
where do people get the idea that everything in eq was an accident? it had its bugs and i'm sure things like fd pulling weren't expected, but how do you know what the developers intended or not?
You can look at some of the developmental changes that happened post launch as reactions to unforeseen player behavior. The nerf to DoT kiting for example. Or dreaming up the trivial loot code in response to players camping content beneath their level specifically for drops.
 

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
25,424
37,545
I had a certain game dev once contact me who said something to the effect of, "Your ideas would be great if the playerbase wasn't retarded." We talked for a bit and it really shaped the way I think about things like this. I used to have an idea for itemization which was basically gemming/enchanting on acid. He pointed out to me that you have to take into consideration that if you give the average player more then 2 choices and he'll shit himself. Picking a race and class he said is already one of the most daunting tasks for a new player it turns out.

It's really helped me shape how I think about stuff.
And thats essentially the problem with the gaming industry as a whole. Thinking that everyone is a fucking idiot that cannot finish a shape puzzle, so instead we only get to play with squares.
 

Laura

Lord Nagafen Raider
582
109
that was pretty much limited to root.
Invisibility, Levitation, Mesmerize (can break any tick), charm, fear, ...just to name a few. All these spells had random duration and could end/break any moment
smile.png


Not limited to root, eh? :p