EQ Never

tad10_sl said:

Great! I know I owe you a little OpEd on lore. But I'm waiting on my buddy who is fishing to edit/additional insights (he's a much more hardcore EQ player than I ever was).

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No worries. Get it to me when its ready; I'd rather have a better article than get it out a day or two sooner.

etchazz_sl said:

i would whole heartedly agree with you if EQN had one single idea that was truly original. however, all they have done is copy every game that has come out over the past 10+ years, stir it in a giant pot, and then call it unique. anything and everything they are describing has been done before (most of it unsuccessfully too i might add). the only thing they are really talking about that is supposedly original is storybricks, and if this is even 1/100th as revolutionary as they are claiming i'll be amazed.

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Who the fuck cares if their ideas are original?

The more important issue would be is the game fun, engaging, and do I want to play it for more than a month?

I don't even know what some of you are pissed off about any more... It's all blurring into one giant pile of bullshit, nonsensical, rage-filled garbage.

Couloir_sl said:

Just doesn't sound fun at all to be constantly hot-swapping builds all the time, in order to get the best matchup against the next wave of mobs.

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It sounds a little Riftesque - but we'll see. And yes this is the only concern listed in dgrabs rant that I thought was valid.

There needs to be lore restrictions (No Shadowknight Paladin builds. No Necromance druid build. Etc)
There needs to be race restrictions (except for humans - other races will have racial abilities to compensate for the restriction).

Being all you can be isn't as good as Rift or SOE thinks - restrictions enhance gameplay and replayability.

@Quaid good post.

What they need to do is to require a huge amount of time/effort to optimize one role. You can learn all skills/ships in EVE - but it isnt practical, so people tend to pick their favorites to focus on and fly that. Or they fly whatever is required to get the job done, expect raid guild to dictate what classes you may bring. Social pressure is nothing new though and will be in any game with raids no matter how baseless.

I wholeheartedly agree. I don't understand how some people here are raging over a game that is so far out. We don't really know much so how do you end up being so definitive in your opinions of things? I don't like a lot of what has been described, but I don't dismiss it out of hand just because it isn't what I think a new EQ game should be. Hell, they're the game designers, I'm not going to say I know better, like some here do. It is easy to Monday morning Quarterback, but actually doing it is not easy at all. Personally, I hope this game turns out great, but I am not going to be all hyped for it, nor am I going to say it sucks before I've even played it. Life is so much better when you're even keeled and not raging all the time. Some of you really really need to chill out and enjoy yourself.

Quaid_sl said:

Who the fuck cares if their ideas are original?

The more important issue would be is the game fun, engaging, and do I want to play it for more than a month?

I don't even know what some of you are pissed off about any more... It's all blurring into one giant pile of bullshit, nonsensical, rage-filled garbage.

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While I was driving this morning it occurred to me that Inny, Rallos, Cazic all might be working with the Shissar. They're just not Gods for our races to choose....yet. Also fairly sure the Shissar were created by Cazic, but it's been a good long while since I played EQ1 enough to dig up all that crap in-game.

Still curious about Brell/Veeshan. Their rivalry was the basis for the origin story for EQ. In a lot of ways if you read between the lines Brell was the bad guy, following Veeshan around from world to world to steal Dragon lore/treasure, or at least that's the assumption. He certainly deceived all the other gods by making multiple pacts to ensure his dominance of Norrath. Alright, enough geeking out for today. Hopefully there's another lore nerd to chime in on this.

Fuck the last 50 pages when is redpandapirates.org being created so I can join and start plotting traps for ninjas

Don't quote me, but I think the EQN Shissar are not from Norrath. It's said in the dudes loooooooong talk in the lore panel.

In EQ, The Shissar were created by Cazic, ruled Kunark, then defeated the Ring of Scale, allied with the Ogres of Tunaria, invaded the planes, lost, and were punished by Cazic for their arrogance via the greenmist wielded by the Iksar.

Couloir_sl said:

The multi-classing is far and away the most worrisome feature for me personally. I've been warming up to the idea that any character can learn the skills and abilities of their choosing and mix them together, but the ability to "just change on the fly" still sounds pretty terrible. Really hoping they don't go full ninja piratemon with these mechanics, but I fear that's exactly how it's gonna work. I'm most interested in hearing more on this topic above all, but I'm doubtful they're gonna release anything more related to combat anytime soon.

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Agreed. I'm largely cautiously optimistic about what they've shown and talked about thus far, but I really don't like the swap-on-the-fly thing. I just picture the typical min-maxxer play session involving using the wizard class to teleport as close as possible to the preferred dungeon, switching to bard to run the rest of the way, changing to rogue to stealth into the dungeon to meet up with their group, and then changing class for every fight to ensure that they're using the perfect build, and then ending the day by changing back to wizard to teleport back to town and sell the loot. And you know this will happen if the option is given to players.

If they'd at least required the player to return to town and speak to a trainer to swap their primary class, I'd be happy. People could still experiment with different builds with relative ease, but at least there'd be a degree of permanence to their class once they walk out of town.

rolx_sl said:

The problem with devs these days is they say one thing and then give you complete opposite and then they never say shit. They just do whatever and expect people to deal with it. A little COMMUNICATION does wonders.

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Who do the devs answer to,the people buying the game or the person signing their paycheck? How much freedom do they even have to create the game they want versus creating the game someone is paying them to create?

Obviously the best move right now is to just wait and see what new information comes out of PAX and Gamescom. Hopefully they have something toshowus, even if it's just a few more character models or shots of Qeynos. I don't expect them to show us a vibrant example of the AI or anything like that just yet.

They will show us things to give us a nostalgia boner because they know they are losing us. That EC tunnel concept art was just the beginning.

Prepare to be pandered to, while receiving no actual information.

Couloir_sl said:

I?d put twenty bucks down on January 2015. I'd guess that they?ve got more than vaporware at this point, though perhaps not by much.


Itissomewhat impressive how many opinions/questions/comments/concerns and how much humor/rage/douchebaggery there is to soak up already. I wonder how many posts this thread will have by the time the game actually launches. I also wonder which will be more entertaining; the game itself or all the banter leading up to it.

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After checkin out some of what's out there so far on that Black Desert project, I completely agree with this statement:

Here?s hoping that the Koreans are successful enough in their own market that their game actually makes it out west someday, especially if EQN doesn?t deliver.

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Probably pretty reasonable guess of 2015 with beta probably next year. Eq landmark in theory goes live this "winter" and that pretty much is the world engine/building voxel stuff core of eqnext so that alone will be a huge beta test of the engine and how well it can handle lots of people around building lots of crazy shit sans NPC/AI stuff going on. It allows them to test the hell out of the core of the game without having worry about all the other game bits like classes/skills balancing what not just pure engine stress test.

Given nobody has really done voxels on this big of a production especially not for an MMO probably a wise plan and a lot of the release time frame of eqnext likely depends on how well the eq landmark stuff holds up under real world conditions.

Randin_sl said:

Agreed...If they'd at least required the player to return to town and speak to a trainer to swap their primary class, I'd be happy. People could still experiment with different builds with relative ease, but at least there'd be a degree of permanence to their class once they walk out of town.

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Yep, /\ that.

It also seems like it would be a significant immersion breaker to be wearing a robe and waving a wand around one second, then be all armored up and swinging a giant hammer the next. I get that it's fantasy but there's gotta be some element of realism attached to it, right?

I'm getting the vibe that these concerns are high on the list for a lot of people. I hope you developers will speak to these issues sooner than later.

PS - No red line attack telegraphing like what was shown in the demos. Breaks immersion, adds to the dumbing down.

dgrabs_sl said:

Obviously the best move right now is to just wait and see what new information comes out of PAX and Gamescom. Hopefully they have something toshowus, even if it's just a few more character models or shots of Qeynos. I don't expect them to show us a vibrant example of the AI or anything like that just yet.

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I think most of what we are likely to see is probably going to be eqlandmark oriented at first basically showing off the game engine/building stuff. I believe they were talking about showing some videos of some timed building tests they were running internally just to show off what some body who was familiar with the tools could do in a certain period of time say an hour or so and what they could build in that time frame.

Couloir_sl said:

Yep, /\ that.

It also seems like it would be a significant immersion breaker to be wearing a robe and waving a wand around one second, then be all armored up and swinging a giant hammer the next. I get that it's fantasy but there's gotta be some element of realism attached to it, right?

I'm getting the vibe that these concerns are high on the list for a lot of people. I hope you developers will speak to these issues sooner than later.

PS - No red line attack telegraphing like what was shown in the demos. Breaks immersion, adds to the dumbing down.

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The problem with not doing the redline stuff like in the demo is basically how do you telegraph attacks well enough for players to be able to react to them without "dumbing it down". The old eq wow ways of doing it initially were no indicators or real telegraphing other than maybe a text notation. In those encounters had to be pretty simple because if you just randomly are dying without any real indication why its not very fun. As the devs tried amping up the difficulty people started running raid warning mods that basically did what those red rings were doing telling you what was happening in such a dumbed down way anybody could react to it. Eventually that kind of thing was seen as such a necessary raid mod that everybody was running them so the devs started just adding those warnings and indicators in the game themselves and thus you get the red rings of don't stand here.

While I am not super fond of of those kinds of markers I think they are probably necessary if you want a game where everybody needs to pay attention to where they are standing and avoiding the big hits. Hell look at GW2 they have this kind of stuff built in and I still see masses of people doing the latest events dying due to not getting out of the red rings of YOU ARE DEAD.

Lleauaric_sl said:

For someone who hates everything they have announced, hates all the people involved and believes it will be a total shitfest... You sure do post a lot about it. I'm not sure where all the anger, rage and cynicism come from, you played EQ for a long time, and enjoyed it more than you didnt, otherwise why would you have continued to play? I just dont believe that everything good about EQ was a total accident. They did some great things. SoV was great. Then the game got old, and WoW did everything EQ did, but better, so we all moved on.

The problem with your posts, besides the lack of paragraph structure, is that you are extremely zealous about your beliefs, it doesn't read like a discussion of information and more like you are trying to convince people of something. /shrug

Either way.....

Cya in Qeynos!

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Couldn't be more wrong. Just voicing my discussion opinions on a discussion board. Paragraph structure? suck my dick hows that for structure?

Drakurii_sl said:

Who do the devs answer to,the people buying the game or the person signing their paycheck? How much freedom do they even have to create the game they want versus creating the game someone is paying them to create?

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By dev I mean developers, not the code monkey. The game designer and development lead staff.

Spynx_sl said:

Fuck the last 50 pages when is redpandapirates.org being created so I can join and start plotting traps for ninjas

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lol fuck RPP.org ninjas comin for ju!

Mr Creed_sl said:

What they need to do is to require a huge amount of time/effort to optimize one role. You can learn all skills/ships in EVE - but it isnt practical, so people tend to pick their favorites to focus on and fly that. Or they fly whatever is required to get the job done, expect raid guild to dictate what classes you may bring. Social pressure is nothing new though and will be in any game with raids no matter how baseless.

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Yes, which gets us back to concerns over multiclassing - the last comment was "Weeks to Tier 5 for a class". Now if that were hardcore weeks to Tier 5, I'd be less concerned but I'm reasonably certain that's casual weeks to tier 5 which means days for hardcore players.

Hopefully we can convince them in beta that letting hardcore games get to tier 5 in a couple of days is Not a Good Thing (tm). Progression should be logarhmic - relatively easy to get tier 1 in a class (barring opposed classes like Shadowknight/Paladin), harder to tier 2, blah blah. This allows people to multi-class but makes specialization something special. Some guy with a Tier 5 Tempest will have worked on it. Some guy with a Tier 1 Tempest/Tier 1 Rogue/Tier 1 Wizard - not so much.

So casuals can go crazy collecting tier 1 classes, while hardcore can focus onlevelingtiering up a class and then focusing on collecting those classes most useful to their base class.

Yes, eventually all poopsockers will have almost everything - but that should take a year + /played.