EQ Never

Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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Draegan_sl said:
You're high.
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Let's face it. Nothing new is going to come out of this genre. We are going to keep getting the same flavors of garbage. Why? Because people keep forking the money over for it. And if they didn't, a marketing report would show the MMORPG genre dead as it's target age group went on to have families.

It's fun talking about what "could" happen though if someone got their shit together.

Sorry to be so pessimestic about the genre, but when companies continue to hire the same people responsible for the last disasters who were also responsible for the previous ones before that, it's getting to the point where if it isn't free to play right off the bat, I won't even give it a chance.
 
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supertouch_sl

shitlord
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ladyvex, i find it strange that you played eq enough to raid across several expansions yet you don't know why people liked the game. you don't come across as very insightful.

you also paint a very extreme picture of travel in eq. i mean there was a portal within walking distance of every zone for christ's sake. players often spent so much time in one place that they had no reason to be moving all the time. do you take issue with a FANTASY WORLD having a boat? people complain about the most trivial things but don't mind games like wow whose design is predicated on running the same instances over and over and over and over. a lot of people don't realize that many of eq's mechanisms were straightforward and almost brilliant in their simplicity yet they're considered harsh by today's standards.

what these arguments boil down to is wanting single-player behaviors in an mmo and it doesn't work. a single-player game focuses on one player so there's no lull in the action. you simply enjoy the game's story for a few hours and you're left satisfied. try to make an mmo like a single-player game and you get every product of the last 10 years. there's a reason people are disenchanted with the genre.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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supertouch_sl said:
ladyvex, i find it strange that you played eq enough to raid across several expansions yet you don't know why people liked the game. you don't come across as very insightful.

you also paint a very extreme picture of travel in eq. i mean there was a portal within walking distance of every zone for christ's sake.
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When exactly did you play EQ again? This is not the caseat allbefore Planes of Power came out. In Vanilla EQ you had Wiz Spires and Druid Rings of which, were a 10-15 minute run from where you may be at, then you were not guaranteed a group gate. When you were dropped off, it was usually a good 2-3 zones from where you wanted to go. If I wanted to hit Lguk, I could usually grab an easy port to Sro from a Wiz, but I was still running through the swamp, into Upper Guk, down to Lguk, and down to my camp. This process took about half an hour easily from start to finish. Then the waiting began to get into a group, usually.

If I was in my middle levels going to group in Unrest, I was taking a GG from a druid over to Butcher Block, with a nice run through DC along the zone line and into unrest. If I received a GG immediately, it was still easily 10-15 minutes. Maybe a little faster if I received a free SoW.

Even in the expansions up until Luclin, this type of travel was pervasive.

So, when did you exactly play this game again? If you played from 1999-2001, you have a memory disorder.
 
Burren

Burren

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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supertouch_sl said:
no. you just have terrible time perception. 10-15 minutes to get from butcherblock rings to unrest? come on, dude.
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So, 5-10 minutes, unless you were snagged by the goblins and killed, then who knows how long. Take an average of every trip made, from the point you could group in Unrest onward. There were dangers and speed bumps even in that relatively short run. But, the fact remains; portal locations were not in zones that you actually grouped in, so Utnayans examples are spot on.
 
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supertouch_sl

shitlord
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of course there was a road you could follow to dc. that took about 2 minutes. the run from dc to to unrest took about 2 minutes. so yeah, his example isn't spot on.
 
Muligan

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
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In what regards... we talking boats? Ports? Good or evil faction? There is a lot that comes into play depending on the details. If i'm a dark elf, running from the Commonlands, heading into FP, to catch the boat to join up with an Unrest group, you're talking a nice chunk of time. If you want ported, well that's different but watch out for guards, brownies, and everything else. Some may be more efficient than others but there was a lot to consider in EQ travel and a lot that could go wrong. Being a cleric, I have left groups many times to go get someone because they died just to lead them back to the group, especially if it was a needed class.
 
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supertouch_sl

shitlord
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yes, there were factors to consider when you traveled. people are making it seem like you had to travel across whole continents to get anywhere and i was merely saying that wasn't the case.
 
D

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
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Utnayan_sl said:
Let's face it. Nothing new is going to come out of this genre. We are going to keep getting the same flavors of garbage. Why? Because people keep forking the money over for it. And if they didn't, a marketing report would show the MMORPG genre dead as it's target age group went on to have families.

It's fun talking about what "could" happen though if someone got their shit together.

Sorry to be so pessimestic about the genre, but when companies continue to hire the same people responsible for the last disasters who were also responsible for the previous ones before that, it's getting to the point where if it isn't free to play right off the bat, I won't even give it a chance.
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Oh I agree, I just thought your idea was silly. :p
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I don't get the whole "unannounced project" thing. The game was announced lol. WTF is that all about?
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
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supertouch_sl said:
of course there was a road you could follow to dc. that took about 2 minutes. the run from dc to to unrest took about 2 minutes. so yeah, his example isn't spot on.
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The Road took longer as a Dark Elf Necromancer. Protip: Level 30-50 Dwarf Guards do not like Dark Elves very much, and those little guys were on the road intersections in little huts with a larger large aggro range when you were level 25 just trying to make it to a group in Unrest's basement. With that said, even on the road, the roads were windy and twisty, and depending on where you were, it made more sense (And was safer) to hug zone walls. And also you were less likely to get lost.

Either way, before Luclin and transponders/translocators (I forgot what they called them), you are looking at least a 20-30 minute travel trip from start to finish depending on where you started.

With those luclin NPC's, those were timed out at what? every 10 minutes? Then travel took even longer. You have a raid to get to in NTOV, you do not have a ride. Up you go to the moon from the North Karana bridge, to a Velious drop down point which put you in the Great Divide, Kael, Wakening Land, Cobalt scar (My favorite part of this trip was the Jamacain music on the beach) through Grotto to West Wastes to NTOV. That little trek would take, easily, 40 minutes.

Sometimes you could plan out where you logged. That was the strategic part. "Ok I have a raid tomorrow, I'll spend an extra 15-20 minutes getting there and then go to bed". Or maybe you were never part of a 17 hour corpse retrieval run after they upgraded the Plane of Fear. That's a new topic
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Creslin

Trakanon Raider
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You forgot Eastern Wastes, one of the biggest zones in the game and that awful run through Skyshrine if you were KOS to dragons.

Ya velious was brutal, it was almost pointless to try to join a raid in NTOV if you didnt get a port to cobalt scar, and even then the run across grotto and WW was risky.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Utnayan_sl said:
The Road took longer as a Dark Elf Necromancer. Protip: Level 30-50 Dwarf Guards do not like Dark Elves very much, and those little guys were on the road intersections in little huts with a larger large aggro range when you were level 25 just trying to make it to a group in Unrest's basement. With that said, even on the road, the roads were windy and twisty, and depending on where you were, it made more sense (And was safer) to hug zone walls. And also you were less likely to get lost.

Either way, before Luclin and transponders/translocators (I forgot what they called them), you are looking at least a 20-30 minute travel trip from start to finish depending on where you started.

With those luclin NPC's, those were timed out at what? every 10 minutes? Then travel took even longer. You have a raid to get to in NTOV, you do not have a ride. Up you go to the moon from the North Karana bridge, to a Velious drop down point which put you in the Great Divide, Kael, Wakening Land, Cobalt scar (My favorite part of this trip was the Jamacain music on the beach) through Grotto to West Wastes to NTOV. That little trek would take, easily, 40 minutes.
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Yeah but like was said, EQ was not a game where you traveled around so much. When I started playing (2000 with Kunark) there was already a set path to leveling up, so most people hung out in those zones for weeks at a time. I started in Qeynos so I did have to do the eventual run to FP at around Lv 12-15, of course I could of got a port, but I wanted to do the run myself. I remember like days before I was planning the shit out at work with eq atlas maps all printed out and shit. Oh and during prime time there was druidz and wizzies itching to give you taxis, so it wasnt like you didnt have options. NTOV was a bitch because there was no druid or wizzie circles at that end of the Velious continent so yeah, they should of added one, but for the most part travel was not really a big issue from what I remember it. And when PoP came around, travel became trivial.
 
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Cthon_sl

shitlord
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Ayeshala_sl said:
100 is a pretty small, somewhat conservative team size in the AAA space these days.
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I'm not disagreeing with you, but a team size of 300+ and huge budget didn't save SWTOR from being an (almost) colossal failure. I think that quality does not scale with, nor is a direct reflection of, potential game quality.
 
L

LadyVex_sl

shitlord
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I think people really forget the amount of running they had to do in EQ. Pretty much anywhere you wanted to be was going to take time to get to. Before PoP and the hub that it was, not only did you have to plan where to be, but you had to make sure you were within distance of a vendor who would even sell to you. Fucking peridots all up in this business.

If you were a caster, every 4 levels was a run back to your trainer for spells, discs etc. And if you were a dark elf cleric worshipper of Innoruuk (Like I was) you could get fucked.

Just getting to raids even sucked; what the hell was on the way to the fear portal again? Driders? I can't even remember now except people occasionally got lost and died to them.

Let's not forget camps could also be taken - that was always fun. Make the run out to Sebilis and everything down to juggs was taken. Fortunately, someone would always want a cleric so that was rare, but man.

For the record, I played from release to Omens. I was on the servers first fear/hate raids. (Bristlebane) Raids that could last for 3 days because it was a bitch to break and once you did no one wanted to relinquish it.

That doesn't mean it was ALWAYS sucky. I fondly remember many runs to weird places just because. The first time I discovered Befallen was epic. It was like an old dungeon crawl - traps, monsters, floors that gave out and landed you into spikes...that was awesome. Reminded me of the nights I'd spend with friends doing spot and listen checks every turn to make sure I didn't end up in a pit of spikes.

But I always did a lot of running in EQ. My race was a factor, the places I leveled were factors, my helpful nature was a factor, raids were a factor, etc etc. There were a lot of factors that went into travel, that could make it more bothersome, but there were very few factors that could truly mitigate it until PoP. That's sort of the point I'm trying to make. Realistic travel is all well and good, but eventually even the world has to evolve.

I loved the 2 hour boat ride...the first time. Maybe even the second. I think I fell in the third time. But after that I sort of felt like spending 2 hrs to travel on a weekend, when I was babysitting was sort of a bad way to spend my time. I'd like to experience the game that they made, and explore it all, but travel hindered it. And not because it was hard, but because it would take forever, and most people weren't up for that.

EQ always felt like what it sold you was the idea of the carrot to reach for. Then it slowed you down, and slowed you down, so that carrot was always there, but it would be a damn long time to get it. When I first started playing WoW, people went nuts at the things they could do. Things wereaccessible. Whatttt, you're saying I can log in, and start leveling, immediately? Like, just log in and do that? No camp checks, or yelling CLERIC LFG in ooc, or praying someone goes to bed so I have a spot to take over etc.

I'm also not on the extreme end; the instant gratification that WoW is in a lot of areas doesn't really appeal to me, especially since they've started giving arbitrary slow downs, that a bothersome rather than hard.

But they will need to meet halfway, and when they described EQN, that sounds like what they're reaching for.
 
Flipmode

Flipmode

EQOA Refugee
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LadyVex_sl said:
I think people really forget the amount of running they had to do in EQ. Pretty much anywhere you wanted to be was going to take time to get to. Before PoP and the hub that it was, not only did you have to plan where to be, but you had to make sure you were within distance of a vendor who would even sell to you. Fucking peridots all up in this business.

If you were a caster, every 4 levels was a run back to your trainer for spells, discs etc. And if you were a dark elf cleric worshipper of Innoruuk (Like I was) you could get fucked.

Just getting to raids even sucked; what the hell was on the way to the fear portal again? Driders? I can't even remember now except people occasionally got lost and died to them.

Let's not forget camps could also be taken - that was always fun. Make the run out to Sebilis and everything down to juggs was taken. Fortunately, someone would always want a cleric so that was rare, but man.

For the record, I played from release to Omens. I was on the servers first fear/hate raids. (Bristlebane) Raids that could last for 3 days because it was a bitch to break and once you did no one wanted to relinquish it.

That doesn't mean it was ALWAYS sucky. I fondly remember many runs to weird places just because. The first time I discovered Befallen was epic. It was like an old dungeon crawl - traps, monsters, floors that gave out and landed you into spikes...that was awesome. Reminded me of the nights I'd spend with friends doing spot and listen checks every turn to make sure I didn't end up in a pit of spikes.

But I always did a lot of running in EQ. My race was a factor, the places I leveled were factors, my helpful nature was a factor, raids were a factor, etc etc. There were a lot of factors that went into travel, that could make it more bothersome, but there were very few factors that could truly mitigate it until PoP. That's sort of the point I'm trying to make. Realistic travel is all well and good, but eventually even the world has to evolve.

I loved the 2 hour boat ride...the first time. Maybe even the second. I think I fell in the third time. But after that I sort of felt like spending 2 hrs to travel on a weekend, when I was babysitting was sort of a bad way to spend my time. I'd like to experience the game that they made, and explore it all, but travel hindered it. And not because it was hard, but because it would take forever, and most people weren't up for that.

EQ always felt like what it sold you was the idea of the carrot to reach for. Then it slowed you down, and slowed you down, so that carrot was always there, but it would be a damn long time to get it. When I first started playing WoW, people went nuts at the things they could do. Things wereaccessible. Whatttt, you're saying I can log in, and start leveling, immediately? Like, just log in and do that? No camp checks, or yelling CLERIC LFG in ooc, or praying someone goes to bed so I have a spot to take over etc.

I'm also not on the extreme end; the instant gratification that WoW is in a lot of areas doesn't really appeal to me, especially since they've started giving arbitrary slow downs, that a bothersome rather than hard.

But they will need to meet halfway, and when they described EQN, that sounds like what they're reaching for.
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I get that travel can be tedious. But if the game is designed as a huge, open world sandbox type game, how do you prevent the power guilds from locking down all the content if they can just warp all over the world? What is your alternative?
 
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