EQ Never

Ah, so we're doing the "what I want back/miss from eq" conversation again, are we? Eh, what the hell:

For me, it's not any particular mechanic, but rather what the game felt like to me. EQ felt like an actual world to me in a way that no game before or since has, rather than feeling like a theme park, or a linear corridor, or a cheap facade slapped over the game mechanics. Granted, probably only half that feeling can actually be attributed to the game mechanics, the rest of it would've been from my naivete towards mmos at the time, which makes it tough for another mmo to match eq in that regard.

But it's like no one's even trying nowadays; every now and then you'll hear about someone trying to build an mmo that's more of a world, rather than a theme park, but it's always some little start up company with a budget equal to the current contents of my wallet, and shockingly enough, they fail, or they actually release a game, but have fall far short of what it could be.

That's why EQN has my attention right now; what little they've told us is hitting the right notes for them wanting to create a world, and SOE actually has shit like 'experience' and 'resources' that might actually allow them to deliver on whatever they've come up with.

Of course, it could turn out SOE's bullshitting us, but for now, I'll go with cautious optimism.

I hate cash shops so much. I just think the thought of paying for something just changes the game completely. You should be able to find everything in the world or craft, no reason to have to buy it. Selling exp pots makes it mandatory for me to buy them, so it just changes the game for me. I'd rather do a subscription outside of the game for some reason paying money for something inside of the game just changes the feel of it for me. I wish EQN devs would PLS DEDICATE A WHOLE TEAM to just 50+ group raid quest shit to do content that is going to make me feel like grinding is worth working up to something. I don't mind grinding at all as long as I can see a purpose for the grinding in the future. Like fire giants, or shroom kings. I love how EQ dunegons just got harder and harder as you went deeper eventually turning into raid content with boss at the end. They were fun to work through as a group. I didn't feel like I was just clearing trash.

Nobody_sl said:

I really hope the days of seeing someone wear something cool, and wondering how you can get it yourself aren't gone. Nowadays, when someone is wearing something neat, 9 times out of 10 the answer is the cash shop. People's appearances in game are a lot more important than some people think. Letting everyone buy sparkly shit, and buy pegasusssesses right out of the gate is a great way to ruin the world instantly.

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I couldn't agree more. I loved how in EQ1, when you saw someone with a particle effect you knew they had something rare and bad ass. I remember getting my Inny's Curse and just watching the PE's for hours. It was special because it was so damn rare.

I don't understand how it's lost on developers that when everyone looks "cool" it just makes everyone the same and is boring. I might be a minority but when ever I see someone riding a mount they bought in a cash shop or a glowing sword from one I instantly want to log off.

Furious_sl said:

I couldn't agree more. I loved how in EQ1, when you saw someone with a particle effect you knew they had something rare and bad ass. I remember getting my Inny's Curse and just watching the PE's for hours. It was special because it was so damn rare.

I don't understand how it's lost on developers that when everyone looks "cool" it just makes everyone the same and is boring. I might be a minority but when ever I see someone riding a mount they baught in a cash shop or a glowing sword from one I instantly want to log off.

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Ya I remember that. Seeing soulfire the first time I was blown away and instantly hooked, never had seen another weapon with anything like that.

Furious_sl said:

I don't understand how it's lost on developers that when everyone looks "cool" it just makes everyone the same and is boring. I might be a minority but when ever I see someone riding a mount they baught in a cash shop or a glowing sword from one I instantly want to log off.

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i agree with this. you really ought to look like a chump until you put in your time, not dollars, to reoutfit yourself.

mmorpg itemization is a lost art.

Randin_sl said:

Ah, so we're doing the "what I want back/miss from eq" conversation again, are we? Eh, what the hell:

For me, it's not any particular mechanic, but rather what the game felt like to me.EQ felt like an actual world to me in a way that no game before or since has, rather than feeling like a theme park, or a linear corridor, or a cheap facade slapped over the game mechanics. Granted, probably only half that feeling can actually be attributed to the game mechanics, the rest of it would've been from my naivete towards mmos at the time, which makes it tough for another mmo to match eq in that regard.

But it's like no one's even trying nowadays; every now and then you'll hear about someone trying to build an mmo that's more of a world, rather than a theme park, but it's always some little start up company with a budget equal to the current contents of my wallet, and shockingly enough, they fail, or they actually release a game, but have fall far short of what it could be.

That's why EQN has my attention right now; what little they've told us is hitting the right notes for them wanting to create a world, and SOE actually has shit like 'experience' and 'resources' that might actually allow them to deliver on whatever they've come up with.

Of course, it could turn out SOE's bullshitting us, but for now, I'll go with cautious optimism.

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This pretty much sums up what I want from an MMO, and EQ has been the one that delivered it back then. More recently, EVE has nailed that aspect as well. If a new games comes along that manages to immerse one in its world, I'll probably be there playing.

Furious_sl said:

I don't understand how it's lost on developers that when everyone looks "cool" it just makes everyone the same and is boring. I might be a minority but when ever I see someone riding a mount they baught in a cash shop or a glowing sword from one I instantly want to log off.

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couldn't agree more
really hate all the marketplace bullshit, all those designs/particle effects/mounts that you just buy with $rl totally kills the point of the game

so cool and personalized and unique! just like everyone else who spent $2.50...

Thats what im saying about the cash shops. Everyone's just buying awesomeness off the cash shop for money it totally ruins the game. Back in the day you were a total scrub and outcast if you bought gold or cheated money wise to get ahead. Even if someone bought the account that person never got groups because the community was so tight nit that you heard that guy that helped you one time sold his account. I'm liking the way they are talking about being able to brag or whatever without just standing in town to tell you the truth. Hope it turns out.

rolx_sl said:

Thats what im saying about the cash shops. Everyone's just buying awesomeness off the cash shop for money it totally ruins the game. Back in the day you were a total scrub and outcast if you bought gold or cheated money wise to get ahead. Even if someone bought the account that person never got groups because the community was so tight nit that you heard that guy that helped you one time sold his account. I'm liking the way they are talking about being able to brag or whatever without just standing in town to tell you the truth. Hope it turns out.

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Because you played a game when the netiquette meant something to a large majority of users.

I also despise cash shops. I'm terrified Sony will fuck up a good game by implementing one into EQN.

Exp potions are pay to win, period. Being one of the first to the level cap often grants players advantages in terms of lack of competition for camps/resources, and PvP wise it certainly grants a significant advantage. Gamers also like to race to the level cap just for competitive reasons and because of the prestige of being a higher level. The race is a big deal to a lot of hardcore gamers.

Vanity items are also just another form of pay to win. Looking badass in a social game is a large part of the reward for success. It was not uncommon for people to wear items with worse stats just to look better. If everybody looks cool, then nobody looks cool-- or worse, the buyers look cool and the successful players don't because the earned items are neglected.

My alternative f2p model would be this: make the game free to play with no restrictions up to mid-level, and then require a subscription to advance characters further. Characters on unsubscribed accounts cannot gain exp or loot from mobs above X level, or otherwise obtain higher level items, but they can still log in, run around, fight, and chat.

This model has several advantages:

1) the game still feels very much free, and indeed would be free to anybody who never got a character above mid level. zero barrier to entry as any other f2p game
2) absolutely zero pay to win of any kind
3) by the time players reached mid level after a generous free period, they will be invested in their characters, and players might feel a stronger sense of owing the company something
4) players will feel like they are getting the full complete game (because they are, at least for a time) for a small fee instead of being nickel and dimed to death
5) allowing expired accounts to still play and chat with old friends makes it more difficult for them to quit, and easier for them to get sucked back in
6) it's much more ethical, as opposed to taking money from 'whales' who cannot control their spending
7) your game won't have the stench of low quality and money grabbing that comes with f2p
8) players will feel a stronger sense of accomplishment by earning their progress with zero advantage over other players, and other players will respect those accomplishments. cheating makes games boring fast

Thing I missed most about being an EQ/MMO Virgin: Meeting women who looked exactly like their level 22 wood elf druid avatar, in real life.

mkopec_sl said:

I get what you are saying, but the F2P model is there because it makes them more money. More money than having subs.

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I would actually love solid numbers on statements like these. Most f2p is born out of necessity because the game is about to die and games that launch f2p are built to that quality.

I know you cant compare to wow and its sub(which I would hope make a lot more then any f2p game could ever hope to make) but I am curious if a solid 500k-1m sub game with a cash shop(these are almost a requirement these days) competes with a f2p title, money wise. Hell make a sub game with no cash shop and put everything in game via either main currency or some other currency, see how that does.

I don't see how people can think that subs turn potiental clients off. If the game is good enough, people will sub for it, look at wow. If theres a cash shop with EXP pots its pretty much mandatory for most gamers that play hard to have them going. It doesn't matter about joe blow that spends 2 hours on and pops a pot. If you don't have the money your competition is going to beat you just because they do have the money. News flash, most of the people that rush to max level do it because they have a lot of time to play, and they know you are going to get to abuse exploits that are going to be fixed later probably reported by the people who abused it so joe blow can't get ahead too and has to buy the shit from dude that exploited it. Thats how it works. Look at neverwinter, they make you pay to respec and get a faster mount. You don't even get 1 free respec it costs $10. Your going to get out your card eventually either way, might as well make it 1 subscription then the game is even to everyone.

Xeldar_sl said:

Thing I missed most about being an EQ/MMO Virgin: Meeting women who looked exactly like their level 22 wood elf druid avatar, in real life.

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pics

Xeldar_sl said:

Thing I missed most about being an EQ/MMO Virgin: Meeting women who looked exactly like their level 22 wood elf druid avatar, in real life.

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Hawt.

rolx_sl said:

I don't see how people can think that subs turn potiental clients off. If the game is good enough, people will sub for it, look at wow.

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The mentality of mmo gamers is changing. F2P use to be a dirty word but now people expect it. There are so many good mmos out that are F2P that it is even effecting WoW's sub numbers. Blizzard has blamed much of their highly publicized million plus sub losses over the last 3 months on the competition from F2P titles. And they predict they will be losing a lot more subs in the coming months. WoW is a long way from going F2P but their heyday is over.

Like you I think a good mmo is worth a sub, but it has to be pretty special. And imo, there isn't an mmo out atm that reaches that pinnacle.

I wouldn't mind some variations. No box price + a $15 sub, or no box price + $7-10 sub + cash shop etc. I think the days of box, sub and cash shop in one game are over and me personally I dislike pure f2p(from launch) games.

Or if you do b2p, take 15 dollars out of the $60, which was normally put forward to your first months sub.