EQ Never

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I agree with you. However there needs to be something I can do. If there are times of day where it's pointless for me to log on because I won't get anything done why would I play that game?
Why does it need to? The world doesn't evolve around Carl. Maybe you should play Rift or something instead, you can do a 5 minute Warfront, or blaze through an instanced dungeon and not even bother wasting precious seconds talking to the other people.

I'm sure there could be something that is enjoyable in small chunks, but really, not everything has to be for everyone. Maybe it's time some of you sat one out for a change, and let the people who don't need instant gratification have a game for once. The problem is, the two types of game are not really compatible. And the problem with the I NEED FUN NAOWW! people is that you log in for 17 minutes, realize that your XP has hardly moved, and complain that it's too slow. And so does the other 800,000 WoW refugees. So the developer speeds the XP rate up and removes the corpse runs and all the stuff that takes time. And the result is that you people blast through the levels and then quit anyway because you are bored. And the people who liked the game all along, they still want to play, but now they have to play the turd of a game that is left after you locusts have fed off it and all moved on to the next flash in the pan 15 minutes of glory instant gratification game.

Also what's so bad about release vanguard?
It was a buggy mess, and while fixing it they decided to also turn it in to a WoW clone in a desperate shallow attempt to drag in at least a few players. But the WoW players still didn't like it, so they all moved on, and now it's just a game with an identity crisis, butchered to death with desperate measures, and only 4 people still stick around.

Edit: oh yea and corpse runs which according to this thread make a game sex.
It's not that they make a game sex, it's that they are such a pain, they make you terrified of dying - which makes everything more exciting. Not everything necessarily should be designed to be nice, sometimes you have to be nasty to hook the player. It's basic game design 101, or at least... it was in the 1980's and 90's when gaming was all about intelligent design. Nowadays it's all about production values and hype.
 

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,588
11,904
rrr_img_32892.jpg


^Intelligent design.
 

Carl_sl

shitlord
634
0
But bugginess and changes down the road don't take away from the fact that even though they promised more, what was released would be damn good in a game without all the bugs. The release game design was pretty good, execution not so much.

Edit: I'm not saying go play vanguard just that if they iterated on that original design we might have something good.
 
1,678
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But bugginess and changes down the road don't take away from the fact that even though they promised more, what was released would be damn good in a game without all the bugs. The release game design was pretty good, execution not so much.

Edit: I'm not saying go play vanguard just that if they iterated on that original design we might have something good.
Yep I think a lot of people feel the same way. And I even said before in this thread, I would be more interested in a Vanguard 2 than an EQ3. There were some things about it I didn't like, even besides the bugs, but it was still more my type of game than anything else in the past ~10 years.
 

Carl_sl

shitlord
634
0
I'm sure spawning in a newb zone surrounded by yellow shield quest things was not how you imagined your first steps in vanguard.
 
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I'm sure spawning in a newb zone surrounded by yellow shield quest things was not how you imagined your first steps in vanguard.
Yeah not ideal but I could go along with it. The main thing that bugged me was that the dungeons were so strictly segregated. The 5 dots were just not soloable, and they often linked unsplittable groups of mobs together just to make sure. So whenever you solo, it's a boring outdoor shooting gallery quest grind, or nothin.

And then in groups, the classes were just too strong - it took all the chaos out of it. Tanks had a selection of taunts, healers had almost unlimited mana, etc. And the mobs died very fast too.

^Intelligent design.
I was thinking more along the lines of Populous, Contra, X Wing, Prince of Persia, Wizardry, Elite, Sid Meier's Pirates. Simcity, Mario, etc.

And from the 90's: Wolfenstein 3d, Warcraft, Daggerfall, Xcom, Civilization, Fallout, Freespace, Halflife, Chrono trigger, Legend of Zelda, Syndicate, etc.

There were entire genres created back then. These days they just mass produce whatever sold well last month but with better graphics.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
I don't get the people who both argue for greater community and social interaction and then the hate of voice chat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Let's see:

Typing:
-I can watch my cinemax soft-core porn while playing without distractions from mumble.
-I don't mind some guy typing about how high he is or WTF cause I can easily skip past those chat, I do mind someone talking about it because I don't give a flying fuck.
-I can talk to people on the phone, take a quick one minute break, or etc with a simple 'phone' 'brb' or 'bio' without having to explain in detail what I'm doing on mumble first. For some reason people seem to think because you are on voicechat with them you have to explain your reasons for a break in detail.
-People are generally funnier and freerer in typechat than they are IRL or in voicechat, and you can easily screenshot their humor and/or retarded mistakes.
-Easier to review raid instructions in chat and get clarifications pre-raid.

Voice
-Easier to alter raid instructions if shit is hitting the fan during the raid
-Though also easier for asshole guild/raidleaders to go full retard (50DKP Minus)
 

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
1,408
185
No. And Vanguard is a terrible example because there are like 4 completely different Vanguards. The one it was supposed to be but wasn't, the one the fans wanted it to be but it wasn't, the one it released as, and the wannabe WoW clone it is today.




It's this I MUST FEEL ACCOMPLISHED AFTER 3 MINUTES!! mentality which makes gaming shit today.
Honestly, Vanguard has some amazing content if you have not seen all of it.. the dungeons are fantastic. I played the crap out of it despite all of the issues. One thing they did very well in dungeon design was HUGE sprawling non linear dungeons which had "quest chains" where you can:

Do a wing at a time or hit bosses anywhere for loots and all the while collect things for the "I completed the whole damn thing quest" which yielded excellent rewards. The problem they introduced was increasing XP rates because you out-level the content before you even finish the dungeons. Of course, i would simply turn off my XP so i can do the entire thing. Dargun's tomb, Greystone, Vol Tuneil were 3 of my best dungeon experiences ever.

Damn makes me want to go back there for a bit.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Let's see:

Typing:
-I can watch my cinemax soft-core porn while playing without distractions from mumble.
-I don't mind some guy typing about how high he is or WTF cause I can easily skip past those chat, I do mind someone talking about it because I don't give a flying fuck.
-I can talk to people on the phone, take a quick one minute break, or etc with a simple 'phone' 'brb' or 'bio' without having to explain in detail what I'm doing on mumble first. For some reason people seem to think because you are on voicechat with them you have to explain your reasons for a break in detail.
-People are generally funnier and freerer in typechat than they are IRL or in voicechat, and you can easily screenshot their humor and/or retarded mistakes.
-Easier to review raid instructions in chat and get clarifications pre-raid.

Voice
-Easier to alter raid instructions if shit is hitting the fan during the raid
-Though also easier for asshole guild/raidleaders to go full retard (50DKP Minus)
Outside of screenshotting chat logs, you can do everything in your typing list with voice chat.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,865
6,822
Voice chat is generally annoying and a waste of most gaming time. Can't stand to listen to pimply faced adolescent rejects prattle on about nothing.

But for coordination during raiding or PvP it is excellent and I would hate to do without it. The rest of the time I keep it off unless there just happens to be someone interesting online, which isn't often. Regular type chat is sufficient for general gaming and far less annoying.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
So you don't like talking to people. You're old fashioned that way. That's ok too.

But I will argue that if a MMORPG pushed people to you voice chat that it has a higher chance of creating a better community.
 

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
There are those that are complaining that there is no community left, and want to go back to the days reputation mattered. This is one way to do this outside of creating a game that is so niche, that only the same like-minded people play.
 

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
So you don't like talking to people. You're old fashioned that way. That's ok too.

But I will argue that if a MMORPG pushed people to you voice chat that it has a higher chance of creating a better community.
I'm pretty much in agreement with Grim on VC. I'll certainly agree with an earlier point made by somone (you?) that I "grew up" with typechat but the corollary to that is Grim's point that a lot of players are younger than I am and I have little in common with them other then this game we happen to be playing together and the other things we may have in common (appreciation of hot girls and/or sports - depending on the sport, I could give a FF about hockey or NASCAR, etc.) are just fine being discussed on typechat. As for better community, I'll argue by analogy - wildstar looks exhausting to me but I understand why some, many people will find it fun, but it's not for me, similiarly, I can appreciate how a lot of people can like VC and build a community on that, but that's just not my thing so I'll stick with the neckbeards who prefer to sitback and type. As Grim said, both are communities, just different types of community.