EQ Never

A

azeth

6,216
8
Shoe companies don't sell shoes for the purpose of discluding/disallowing leg amputees from using their product.

If they create the game that 99.9% of this thread wants - there will be an enormous population of gamers who will likely never experience some of the content.

^ im fine with that, because thats the only type of MMO i like.
 
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Bellringer_sl

shitlord
387
0
Apparently my reading comprehension skills are unable to decipher the intention of your posts. Before I go on trying, which of the two groups in my previous post do you belong. Initially my thought that you were part of the former, but now possibly the latter?
 
A

azeth

6,216
8
I don't think posing the question(s) puts me in either camp.

To tell you the truth I'd prefer developers just create amazing content and whether or not I have the time/energy to conquer it is on me.
 
Neno

Neno

Lord Nagafen Raider
62
7
I just really want to see a return classic Norrath. Instances vs non-instanced dungeons, death penalties and time sinks are not as much of a concern to me as just the overall setting. EQ2 was just too alien for me with how it changed the world geographically and the whole Qeynos vs Freeport shit. I'd like to see all the classic races with their own home towns and starter areas. EQ has been around for so long and so much shit added that it might be hard for them to do away with certain races and classes that were added in during its continued run. I see people going back and forth about this feature and that they either want or don't want but what about playable races and classes? Should beast lords and zerkers be in? Should the Drakkin and their starting area be a part of EQN? My personal preference would be only classic races/classes. No frogloks, iksar, vah'shir, drakkin, beastlords and zerkers. I do suppose I could live with Iksar if Kunark was around though.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,792
664
I said it in an earlier post but I think it should be original class/races. If nothing else it gives them things to add in the future without much thought but will still leave people anxious to check out.
 
Randin

Randin

Trakanon Raider
1,933
892
In terms of races, it depends on the landmass the game has; I definitely don't want a repeat of the EQ2 Qeynos/Freeport shit. I will say that I liked the racial lineup that EQ2 ended up with, with the possible exception of the arasai and that vampire race.

Specifically, assuming Kunark is in (or once it gets added via expansion) I'd like to see sarnaks back in as playable. Although, if I had my way, I'd redesign their aesthetics to look more like the EQ2droagmob race, rather than their original appearance or their playable incarnation in EQ2.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,534
601
Azeth_sl said:
If they create the game that 99.9% of this thread wants - there will be an enormous population of gamers who will likely never experience some of the content.
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Why's that? If guild X can't conquer raid Y during expansion Z, they should be able to conquer raid Y during expansion Z+1. WoW fucked things up by making prior raid areas completely useless in new expansions so Blizzard had to create a system whereby all current content could be achieved by the playerbase.

Probably their dumbest gameplay decision since content is so hard to create.
 
Agraza

Agraza

Registered Hutt
6,890
521
tad10_sl said:
WoW fucked things up by making prior raid areas completely useless in new expansions.

Probably their dumbest gameplay decision since content is so hard to create.
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I rarely agree with Tad, but I've expressed similar sentiments many times before. They've done themselves a disservice with the speed at which they obsolesce content.
 
Pyros

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,318
2,424
tad10_sl said:
Why's that? If guild X can't conquer raid Y during expansion Z, they should be able to conquer raid Y during expansion Z+1. WoW fucked things up by making prior raid areas completely useless in new expansions so Blizzard had to create a system whereby all current content could be achieved by the playerbase.

Probably their dumbest gameplay decision since content is so hard to create.
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If you tell a basic wow player that he can see the new raid in 2years(1year if you release expansion at a non blizzard pace), it'd probably the same as telling him he won't see it ever. But I agree otherwise, it's just if you're targetting a certain type of "players" you sadly can't gate your content behind difficulty or waiting for months, because they'll just quit after spending a week or two bitching about it. Can only hope that EQN is trying to target people who are tired of modern mmos instead of trying to target people who are currently playing wow.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,534
601
Mughal_sl said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudflation

According to Google Groups, the earliest Usenet posting that used this term was from April 1993
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Mudflation isn't the problem - all games have to have some mudflation or you don't feel your character is getting more powerful, it is extreme mudflation that is the problem. Such as where (as in WoW) _early_ greens from the new expansion are better than purples from the top tier raids of the previous expansion.

By comparison during PoP, second tier guilds were still raiding Vex Thall (Luclin) and crappy guilds were still raiding NToV (Velious). So a lot of old content was getting used and the player base from crappy family guilds to Uber guilds were getting to experience the content.

/aside and as was just pointed out to me by a buddy who used to do heavy WoW raiding - the absurb mudflation of WoW expansions made old content obsolecent _months_ before the new expansion was coming out. As Guilds knew that the low-end gear from the new content was going to be far better than what they were raiding now so there was really no purpose to keep on keeping on unless you were doing PvP.

rrr_img_34588.jpg
 
Agraza

Agraza

Registered Hutt
6,890
521
During LK especially, they made even the previous tier of content irrelevant with the new tier. This is especially harmful to the 5 man casuals as while 1 raid is replaced with 1 raid, their 10 5 man dungeons were replaced with 1 5 man dungeon.

It's about their aggressive pacing, not that they're sticking to a traditional flaw of MMO design. No one ran the tier 1 raids after tier 2 were released in LK, and the same was true with tiers 3 and 4. That would be like EQ releasing Valor, Decay, and Torment then no one raids Nightmare, Disease, or Innovation ever again. It's not Kunark->Velious, it's Kael->NToV.

Expansions should act as a reset button, but even there they've been too harsh. You should be able to carry the best of the old raid gear to the earliest raids in the new xpac. If you're fanatical about sockets sometimes a set bonus is worth it to do that, but generally you need to replace your fantastic and difficult to obtain purples with quest reward blues before you even hit the new level cap. Best of the best items from TBC were replaced by the second to last zone in LK, and faster in Cataclysm.
 
B

Bellringer_sl

shitlord
387
0
Agraza_sl said:
Expansions should act as a reset button, but even there they've been too harsh. You should be able to carry the best of the old raid gear to the earliest raids in the new xpac. If you're fanatical about sockets sometimes a set bonus is worth it to do that, but generally you need to replace your fantastic and difficult to obtain purples with quest reward blues before you even hit the new level cap. Best of the best items from TBC were replaced by the second to last zone in LK, and faster in Cataclysm.
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I just threw up in my mouth a little. Item progression in EQ was far superior than item progression in wow. Wow threw loot at you at every turn to the point where you did not have any emotional connection to you gear.
 
Mughal

Mughal

Bronze Knight of the Realm
279
39
Agraza_sl said:
During LK especially, they made even the previous tier of content irrelevant with the new tier.
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If you were in charge of a business that relies on subscriptions and identify that one of the reasons why people quit is that they cannot gear their toons mid-expansion, you would have probably done the same. I think the biggest problem I have with comments like these is that you are not considering the totality of the addressable gaming population. Most design decision are not pulled out of someone's ass but they are the result of constraints.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,534
601
Mughal_sl said:
If you were in charge of a business that relies on subscriptions and identify that one of the reasons why people quit is that they cannot gear their toons mid-expansion, you would have probably done the same. I think the biggest problem I have with comments like these is that you are not considering the totality of the addressable gaming population. Most design decision are not pulled out of someone's ass but they are the result of constraints.
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That's a problem with Blizzard releasing an expansion every 2 years not a problem with itemization, mudflation or denial of the playerbase to access. Release 1 expansion a year (as EQ does) and you won't have players bitching about that.

Blizzard attempted to cure the symptoms without identifying the underlying disease.

I'll add that Blizzard is hemmorrhaging subscriptions now because of their model.

Speaking of Blizzard they're "investigating" micro-transactions.

rrr_img_34594.jpg
 
Agraza

Agraza

Registered Hutt
6,890
521
They could still gear their toons before, but now had less content in which to do it. During classic you'd have guilds raiding MC/BWL/ZGfor upgradeseven right before TBC released. During TBC you had guilds interested in Kharazan the ENTIRE xpac, and it was the entry raid. We don't all get off the starting line at the same time, and for those that come in later, they miss out on cool stuff because no one else wants to do it. If you began playing during 3.2 in WoW, you didn't raid Ulduar, Naxxramas, or Malygos. You may have zerged Sartharion for a roll on the mount. Ulduar was probably the best zone they had ever released to that point.

There is less to do because in a multi-player game you need accomplices, and with the way content was incentivized you went without if you were curious about prior releases even within the same expansion.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,534
601
Mughal_sl said:
If you were in charge of a business that relies on subscriptions and identify that one of the reasons why people quit is that they cannot gear their toons mid-expansion, you would have probably done the same. I think the biggest problem I have with comments like these is that you are not considering the totality of the addressable gaming population. Most design decision are not pulled out of someone's ass but they are the result of constraints.
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I will also add, from the Blizzard 10-Q for 1Q 2013 "The subscriber decline was primarily attributable to the East, with a smaller relative decrease in the West (where the ?East? includes China, Taiwan, and South Korea, and the ?West? includes North America, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, and Latin America). Subscribership has declined since the September 2012 release of the latest expansion pack, World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria?, withcasual players in the East playing less."

Blizzard made lots of changes in WoW to accomodate those casual players in the East, and yet they're the ones who were the first to leave. Those changes have turned off a lot of hardcore players in the West and who will jump ship as soon as there is something decent on the horizon.

Given the recent appearence of FTP elements on PTR I can only assume WoW sub numbers are plummeting.
 
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