tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Rezz is part of the fohguild/rerolled group that inexplicably wants EQN to fail so pointless to argue with him rationally.
EQ Never
- Thread starter Convo
- Start date
Caeden
Golden Baronet of the Realm
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I loved talents during tbc and some during Wotlk. However, I think the current wow design which is more like gw2 (well, ripped off diablo I think, but was trying to give an mmo equiv) is superior. Now, specialization is another animal and hinges on hybrid design.
Somewhere someone determined all knight classes should be hybrids and its been a constant battle of being mediocre or healbot in WoW. If hybrids are desired, fine. It got old wearing plate and having to spam heal spells while warriors who were pure tanks could dps as well as any class usually. Make warriors shit dps and I'm on board with a hybrid tax.
I digress, I think specs are a good way to give variety of playstyles to classes and allow hybrids to not be taxed out the ass.
Somewhere someone determined all knight classes should be hybrids and its been a constant battle of being mediocre or healbot in WoW. If hybrids are desired, fine. It got old wearing plate and having to spam heal spells while warriors who were pure tanks could dps as well as any class usually. Make warriors shit dps and I'm on board with a hybrid tax.
I digress, I think specs are a good way to give variety of playstyles to classes and allow hybrids to not be taxed out the ass.
Randin
Trakanon Raider
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You know, assuming SOE isn't just blowing smoke up our collective asses about the whole 'sandbox' thing, I wonder just how relevant this dungeon discussion will end up being? I don't doubt dungeons will be in game, but they may very well be a clearly ancillary thing, with the focus being on shit like kingdom building and competing with other players.
Dungeons may end up being as core to EQN as, I don't know, let's say crafting is to the typical wow-model mmo; it's there, but clearly not the game's principle concern.
Dungeons may end up being as core to EQN as, I don't know, let's say crafting is to the typical wow-model mmo; it's there, but clearly not the game's principle concern.
No. Hyperbolic panic at the sight of XL-shoulderpads is the very essence of this thread.
Rezz
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Dear Madam,
Not a single post in this thread or any other has me hoping for EQN's failure. Not a single post has me clamoring for a WoW clone. Not a single idea I have posted in any thread on this board or the last supports your opinion.
The only way your myopic view of what you "think" I am saying is supported is by your incredibly narrow criteria for what you think mmorpgs are and what a wow clone is. Instanced dungeons? WoW-Clone. Doesn't matter how they are implemented or how the instancing is handled; they are WoW-Clones. Combat faster than EQ's first 30 levels? WoW-Clone. Doesn't matter how concessions are made in either direction; WoW-Clone. Downtime less than 10 minutes between fights? WoW-Clone. Doesn't matter that EQ rarely had downtime like you seem to remember after the earliest levels, especially in higher end dungeons UNLESS you are specifically referencing the super overcrowded lguk/solb/seb days where there was literally nothing alive for 10-20 minutes between bosses anywhere in the dungeon. Otherwise; WoW-Clone.
And you say I can't be reasoned with rationally? Stop trolling the thread, please. We already have enough trolls with qwerty and dumar around.
Nirgon
Log Wizard
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If your guild races to max level and raids, you will find bugs in these games. Period.
Moreover, there will be bugs regardless.
By around a year after launch or so is when things get smoothed over.
EQ1 was also like this.
Mobs that didn't aggro when you fully dispelled them, items with insta cast 2 slot dispel from vendors that got removed etc.
Moreover, there will be bugs regardless.
By around a year after launch or so is when things get smoothed over.
EQ1 was also like this.
Mobs that didn't aggro when you fully dispelled them, items with insta cast 2 slot dispel from vendors that got removed etc.
I haven't even posted in this thread for about a month because draegan is a little queen. You only don't like me (and dumar) because we have valid and sane opinions, and you are a complete fucking moron who can't handle such a difference.
You shouldn't need that if there were enough dungeons.
If anything they should do what they were going to do in Vanguard and add that Advanced Encounter System, which is basically what Rift's rifts are made from. They are like mini instances in a single room of a dungeon, or something, and it only triggers for certain people.
I just don't like instancing, it ruins the feel of the game for me.
There were big oversights with the classes too. Like as a Necro you could go in to the Frenzy room in l.guk, charm the frenzy and set him on the other mobs then just feign death. He would continue to fight for you while the other frogs all ignored me. Then you just pop up and nuke him, loot, and repeat on the other mobs. They soon changed it so that charm broke if you feigned.
There was quite a severe exploit I found with the enchanter class, but I'm wary of mentioning it because I'm not sure it ever got fixed. Someone saw me do it on an emulator server and then nerfed hell out of chanters because of it, but hopefully it still works on eq mac, I'll have to try it sometime.
What's wrong with them? He just likes old school game design. Put him on a retro gaming forum and he would fit right in. But this place is full of little johnny come lately kids and idiots who find it completely off the wall.
Xexx
Vyemm Raider
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With player population like it is nowadays instances are pretty much essential. You'd have to have an extreme amount of servers/instances per range of levels to compensate for the possibility of the amount of players at any given time. On top of that then when people are all high enough that some zones go unused then you have to many dead/empty dungeons sitting around that arent in use anymore.
I do feel that their is a need for more non instanced dungeons where people actually have to camp/claim spawns like in the old days. However i also feel we need instances for the quick access and casual/friendly environment. Things like Dungeon Finder require instances, and while i think some people may hate the feature i find it rather nice to have around and use while questing(since questing will never leave mmo's ever).
I do feel that their is a need for more non instanced dungeons where people actually have to camp/claim spawns like in the old days. However i also feel we need instances for the quick access and casual/friendly environment. Things like Dungeon Finder require instances, and while i think some people may hate the feature i find it rather nice to have around and use while questing(since questing will never leave mmo's ever).
I sure hope you are wrong, otherwise SOE is going to be very disappointed.
Depends on the size of the world and population. I think Vanguard did a pretty good job, the world was big, lots of dungeons at every level range. It got over crowded in places but there were empty places at the same time. I think it's more important to stagger the influx of players, let testers in first or something, then let pre-order people in, and let normal buyers in later.
As for dungeons becoming useless, that's all down to design. In EQ Mac, lower level dungeons are still always used by people. Because at 50-65 you can find some level 30-40ish dungeon and wipe it clean and loot all kinds of nice mid level items, ideal for starting a twink or to sell for some fast cash. And in a healthy game, you should always have new players working through that content too.
And that's without any kind of mentoring system. Rift has a new system where you join an instant adventure group and it lowers your level to be the same as the majority, so a level 60 can end up level 20 to fight some old place with them. But you can't even tell, all your spells still work the same, it just tweaks the numbers. It's not perfect but it's not far off being amazing. GW2 does something similar, although I didn't like their way as much. Rifts works great the only thing I don't like is that you just end up doing the same boring quests that you did a month earlier. But if the general day to day gameplay was fun, then it would be a lot more interesting. If a level 50 in EQ could try a few dungeons and find them busy, so mentor down to a group of level 20's and go to Cazic Thule with them and get good xp there, that would be great.
As much as not having them appears to suck on paper, instances are one of the main offenders of pushing the consumption rate of content up way faster than can be controlled by developers. The fact that someone can't get a group together to get achanceof getting [insert contested desirable item here] pushes that off the night's agenda, and ensures only one of that particular thing is going to enter the economy at a time. The alternative is 100's of groups doing the exact same instance killing the exact same boss at the exact same time, along with having whatever item(s) enter the world an order of magnitude faster. It lowers the perceived value of the item, your character, and the game.
Xexx
Vyemm Raider
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By? What game do you know of that has a ton of dungeons by level range? Enough to not need instancing b/c they are so abundant? I understand what qwerty is trying to pitch, its just not something i ever see happening.
Furthermore camping/claiming spawns like way back was pretty $ - Most of peoples fond memories of EQ1 were the good old vanilla days when the game was still young and hard(ish). Death penalties and de-leveling, are things of the past but i personally dont mind them. People are just pampered nowadays since the MMO scene in general has changed so much and catered to all the whiny pussies who hated certain penalties.
Not to be off track too long, im pretty certain alot of whats standard in MMOs(including WoW) will likely be seen in EQN as well, and hopefully what is taken is atleast improved upon.
I dont think I would mind them too much if you still had to travel to and from it, and treat it like a real dungeon. I just hate it when you get teleported straight to the dungeon and then people leave and vanish back to the nearest city or whatever. Makes it seem pointless, may as well play a coop RPG.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I know Harsman felt that way. I posted a solution to this before. Not being a dev I don't know how hard it would be to implement. If I was making a game I would certainly use a bunch of outdoor dungeons. I would also design it that the mobs would grow in level the longer the dungeon sits unused. So your beloved Lvl 15 dungeon from 2 years ago can be revisited when you're level 50 once most of the player base are done with it. Have the mobs grow from inside out so Lower players kill thier way in and come across the higher mobs. Just an idea that would require more thought and planning but it's how I would try and handle it.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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A good point that will be mostly ignored. Content churn is a major problem with modern MMOs because of instances. So yes another reason instances should be avoided if at all possible.