EQ Never

Ambiturner

Ambiturner

Ssraeszha Raider
16,159
19,761
Bellringer_sl said:
All communities need rivalries. There will never be a point where everyone around is lubby dubby and enjoys each other's companies. Peoples personalities are far too different. Part of what keeps a group together given these different personalities are common goals... and common enemies. I was not being a hypocrite at all. You sound like such a fucking pussy.

Just to be clear, I am not saying that there were never times were Lguk/solb were inefficient. I am saying that there were ways to fight through it. Apparently you didn't and still don't have the stones to step on toes, think outside the box, and fucking win. It's okay. There are places for people like you... on the bottom.
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Yes, I should have tried to solo ks mobs from entire groups, because that won't get you blacklisted. There's a difference between a personality conflict and someone actively being a dick. How you can go from one post saying we need communities and reputations to matter to saying I'm a pussy for not destroying my rep is mind boggling. You're clearly one of those people who just tries to "win" every point of the argument even if they're incompatible. Cognitive dissonance at its finest
 
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Itzena_sl

shitlord
4,609
6
Nirgon_sl said:
Shadowbane...didn't suck
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belfast_sl

shitlord
65
0
Pinch_sl said:
Shadowbane gear had resilience. I remember being pissed when some awesome throwing axes with double haste both broke after I got ganked before I could repair between deaths.
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Are you referring to item durability? Resilience in wow was resistance vs. players.

Ambiturner_sl said:
Yes, I should have tried to solo ks mobs from entire groups, because that won't get you blacklisted. There's a difference between a personality conflict and someone actively being a dick. How you can go from one post saying we need communities and reputations to matter to saying I'm a pussy for not destroying my rep is mind boggling.
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To be fair, all sides of that argument involve the same game.
 
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qwertyqweqwertwqert

<Banned>
1,678
149
Ambiturner_sl said:
pointless if you're 50 anyways
worthless at level 50 also.
worthless for a 50.
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50 was max level... Why are you talking about getting exp at 50? All that mattered was getting TO 50, and all of his suggestions were bang on. There were lots of places to go, people only haunted Lower Guk because it was the easy option.

DMK_sl said:
The solution is so simple it hurts my brain MMO's haven't done it already. Have a small amount of Hardcore Full loot PvP servers a few more PvP servers and mostly PvE servers. Seriously how fucken hard is that to implement.
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That splits up the players in to small fractions.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,792
664
Ambiturner_sl said:
Yes, I should have tried to solo ks mobs from entire groups, because that won't get you blacklisted. There's a difference between a personality conflict and someone actively being a dick. How you can go from one post saying we need communities and reputations to matter to saying I'm a pussy for not destroying my rep is mind boggling. You're clearly one of those people who just tries to "win" every point of the argument even if they're incompatible. Cognitive dissonance at its finest
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He does have a point dude. There was shit to do. You just wanted to to those zones whenever you felt like it. I don't know what class you played. Whenever I couldnt get a group I either went quading or camped AC to make money off Jboots turn in or some other shit. I'm not going to argue if that's a flawed design but it certainly slows the game down and after experiencing enough instant content I think there is a place for outdoor zones for sure. You just come off really whiny and butt hurt over your EQ time.
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

Ssraeszha Raider
16,159
19,761
I enjoyed Eq for the most part, I think a lot of their design was good for the time and limitations they had. I just don't pretend like it didn't have its flaws and don't try to spin those as "features". Someone pointing out a design that could use improving is only butthurt to Eq deniers who take anything said about EQ personally and refuse to believe it wasn't perfect.

Most of the time I was able to find something to do, but there were still those nights where I wouldn't be able to find anything all night. That should not happen in any game. I played a Monk, so soloing ranged from impossible to highly impractical. That, and killing greens for hours waiting for AC to spawn isn't much funner.
 
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qwertyqweqwertwqert

<Banned>
1,678
149
Ambiturner_sl said:
I just don't pretend like it didn't have its flaws and don't try to spin those as "features". Someone pointing out a design that could use improving is only butthurt to Eq deniers who take anything said about EQ personally and refuse to believe it wasn't perfect.
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But it's not as clear cut as that... don't you get it? You say something sucked and needs fixing, but some people preferred it the way it was. That's all WoW is... it's EQ with all the obvious things "fixed", but the solutions make it in to a totally different experience, one which many of us think is far worse than EQ. Some people whined about grinding XP, so they replaced it with endless quests. But that just became a different type of grind instead, and now going back to EQ which at least lets you just kill anything you want, anywhere you want, it feels a lot better than the quest grind.

Then the harsh deaths and corpse loss etc, they replaced that with noob mode death, becoming an invisible ghost that can just run straight back to where you died and then continue more or less like nothing happened. It takes all tension out of the game.

Long story short - most of those things you call design flaws were actually things that made the game better. Sometimes a game shouldn't just submit at every step and give you everything you want. There are countless instant gratification games like that out there and they just get boring fast.
Ambiturner_sl said:
Most of the time I was able to find something to do, but there were still those nights where I wouldn't be able to find anything all night. That should not happen in any game.
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How many times do I have to tell you.... it was a game made with a tiny budget and a small team, they expected to have like 10 thousand players or something, not 500,000. All you are doing is complaining about a lack of high level dungeons, it's stupid. Once the expansions came along, the problems eased up. And once they got a chance to remake the game with a bigger budget (Vanguard), they solved all those problems without even needing to instance.

If you are going to complain about bad design choices, at least pick something valid.
 
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skrala

Silver Knight of the Realm
316
53
qwerty_sl said:
50 was max level... Why are you talking about getting exp at 50? All that mattered was getting TO 50, and all of his suggestions were bang on. There were lots of places to go, people only haunted Lower Guk because it was the easy option.
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Experience buffer for Fear breaks mattered quite a bit.
 
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qwertyqweqwertwqert

<Banned>
1,678
149
Skrala_sl said:
Experience buffer for Fear breaks mattered quite a bit.
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Not really. At 50 you would do raids and it would fill up your xp. And the several or more places mentioned already in this thread were perfectly fine to top up the exp. He is making out like there needed to be places to get exp at 50 which is stupid.
 
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skrala

Silver Knight of the Realm
316
53
If you were lucky enough to get in with the wizard group at release or the rogue group in kunark, sure. Nobody else was getting exp.
 
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Dizzam_sl

shitlord
247
0
Sylas_sl said:
The President of SOE.
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Smedley might be the President of SOE, but he is less credible than the guy in the mailroom. Besides, I don't think he was announcing anything, and neither does Georgeson:

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We can go back and forth all day with ambiguous tweets. My prediction is that open PvP--defined as any player being able to attack any other player at anytime--won't be in the game. Let's just wait until August 2nd and we'll see who is right.
 
Sylas

Sylas

<Gold Donor>
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Draegan_sl said:
EVE can make a mega server because each sector is it's own instance and I think even different encounters are instanced off as well. It's done seemlessly but it allows them to put everyone in a single server. The other easy thing is that you don't have to really draw up many art assets in a zone. It's just empty space with some planet/moon/astroid/star graphics floating around. A huge world server in a fantasy setting will have to load much more than that.

It would be awesome if the tech is there to create a mega server.
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There is absolutely zero instancing in Eve. Not in the manner that most people think of instancing. I think you meant zones? yeah Eve has zones similiar to EQ1. The Eve server is a ridiculously large room full of computers to support the single shard world, and sure individual zones can become so overloaded that the box running them crashes and that zone "goes down" (virtually never happens now with TiDi, even with 2k players all fighting on the same grid) but there is never an "instance" or duplicate zone/area created for any reason ever.

You are right in that they can do this (and have been doing this since 2003) because zones are huge but it's space so there's very little things in them, and the art is effectively just a background jpeg of space nebula shit. I'd just be very careful throwing around the word "instancing" especially in a thread like this as it has some severely negative connotations.
 
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Bellringer_sl

shitlord
387
0
You are beyond hope. I specifically said form your own group and get down there to compete. If you are not going to at least read what I am typing then there is no point in trying to convince you that there were a plethora of options in EQ and if you couldn't find or create something to do it's your own damned fault.

There are flaws in all games, including EQ. I'll even concede that dungeon overcrowding was an issue. I have actually already mentioned that in a previous post which you probably didn't read. However saying that you could not find anything to do is completely your fault.

You will likely respond with "I couldn't do what I wanted to do" to which I can only offer this: you don't, can't, and shouldn't get what you "want" at all times in a game. If you do, the game becomes meaningless and you cannot possibly value it.

Unfortunately that is a deeper debate that requires an understanding of why people place value and emotional connection on anything.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Ambiturner_sl said:
I just don't pretend like it didn't have its flaws and don't try to spin those as "features". Someone pointing out a design that could use improving is only butthurt to Eq deniers who take anything said about EQ personally and refuse to believe it wasn't perfect.
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Who are those people? I don't know of any. What I see is a range of people. Some think that EQNext should be EQ with only minor changes but they still think there is room for improvement. Most are somewhere in the middle, keep a lot of EQ's danger and slow leveling etc, but bring in some modern changes that are good also. And few only want WoW with EQ's classes and the name.

It's a good discussion for the most part. The people I object to most are the ones who continue to throw the "neckbeard" term around to belittle people all while projecting an asshattery level of love for mechanics like instancing and "WIN!" buttons. It's ok to like WoW and it's style of gaming, it's very popular. But to belittle people because we think there are already too many WoW clones around doesn't do anyone any good.
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

Ssraeszha Raider
16,159
19,761
qwerty_sl said:
Not really. At 50 you would do raids and it would fill up your xp. And the several or more places mentioned already in this thread were perfectly fine to top up the exp. He is making out like there needed to be places to get exp at 50 which is stupid.
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Yeah, everyone was getting full exp bars during raids. For as much fellatio as you give this game, did you even play it back then?

But the sad thing is, you're actually agreeing with me but are too stupid to realize it. Someone else mentioned those places and I was saying that at level 50 things like soloing Spectres shouldn't be considered something to do because there's no point. There were few places to actually accomplish something worthwhile and there were times when none of them were available.

Clearly arguing with Eq fanboys is pointless which is why a lot of people avoid this thread. Have fun with your circle jerk, I'll be back when there's something worthwhile to discuss.
 
Grim1

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,918
6,929
Sylas_sl said:
There is absolutely zero instancing in Eve. Not in the manner that most people think of instancing. I think you meant zones? yeah Eve has zones similiar to EQ1. The Eve server is a ridiculously large room full of computers to support the single shard world, and sure individual zones can become so overloaded that the box running them crashes and that zone "goes down" (virtually never happens now with TiDi, even with 2k players all fighting in a zone) but there is never an "instance" or duplicate zone/area created for any reason ever.
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Isn't there instancing of a sort during the lower level missions? Tutorial and other PvE stuff I believe. Could be wrong, it's been a while since I did them.

Which is fine. If EQN did the same thing for some solo class quests, etc but in a minor way, I'd be fine with that. The type of instancing I hate most is where the group / raid is in it's own little universe cut off from contact from the rest of the game. That's just a lobby game and we have too many of them already. I'm ok with multiple shards that more than one group can access though. That is an acceptable compromise to help alleviate overcrowding. Although, I would hope the devs are creative enough not to need them.
 
Blackyce

Blackyce

Silver Knight of the Realm
836
12
Rombo_sl said:
Gimme whatever youre smokin. Shadowbane was miserable and received the quick death it deserved.
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Sorry you're just wrong here. I've played pretty much ever fantasy MMO and if it had a PvP server, I was playing on it. Shadowbane had GREAT PvP. Their code sucked the allmighty dick but the PvP was good and the classes were some of the best I've played with.
 
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Dizzam_sl

shitlord
247
0
Grim1_sl said:
I'm ok with multiple shards that more than one group can access though.
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I know next to nothing about Eve (assuming that's where "shard" comes from). Is this where a copy of a zone is created when the first zone becomes too crowded? Isn't this similar to what ESO is doing?
 
Nirgon

Nirgon

Log Wizard
15,210
24,997
Shadowbane wasn't a fun game to pixel farm (I imagine this trumps risk/reward based game play for many) for sure.

But the character building, city building and world PvP was ahead of its time.

Bugs were bad.
 
mkopec

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
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You guys are forgetting that 3/4 of EQs population never hit cap during Vanilla, and Kunark was released less than a year after release. More than doubling all the 30-50+ spots.

When discussing games and game design decisions, you should not do it from a poopsockers viewpoint that played 16 hrs a day. Because thats NOT what the majority of EQs player base experienced.
 
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