EQ Never

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shitlord
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Sylas_sl said:
Feel free to browse his tweets about EQN in which all of them indicate that you're in for a rude awakening. The game will be more like Eve (or UO if you are unfamiliar with Eve) than Everquest.
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Smedly is known for his hyperbole and rhetoric. However, I didn't take his agreement to suggest that he believes open world pvp is the only way to have a meaningful sandbox game. If he actually believes that... well it's dumb for the same reason many categorical statements are dumb. Using conflict to drive the economy is another story. I do wonder how much design and analysis Smedley actually contributes these days, though.

For the record, I have an extensive pk background, so that sort of design wouldn't bother me in the least. If you'd like to provide more relevant tweets, I'd be interested in reading them.
 
Caeden

Caeden

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You'd be lucky to get four hours a day from the average 30 year old today. Just not happening. Making no comment on the design and how that should guide it if at all, but SoE is a business and I bet those guys' lives have changed too. Just a thought.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Dizzam_sl said:
I know next to nothing about Eve (assuming that's where "shard" comes from). Is this where a copy of a zone is created when the first zone becomes too crowded? Isn't this similar to what ESO is doing?
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EvE basically doesn't have any instances or shards. It might at a tutorial level but I forget. If too many people are in a zone the lag just gets really bad. Only one copy of the zone and only one mega server for everyone. Their server tech continues to improve though.

Vanguard had multiple shards for raid zones that anyone could access. Multiple groups / raids could be in the same shard. That's what I'm thinking of when I use the term.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Shard means server or cluster of servers which you play on. Like in EQ, the game runs on multiple game servers, each with a unique name for identification. These names were originally the deities of the world of Norrath. In technical terms, each game server is actually a cluster of server machines. Once a character is created, it can be played only on that server unless the character is transferred to a new server by the customer service staff, generally for a fee. Each server often has a unique community and people often include the server name when identifying their character outside of the game.

In eve there is only one shard or server, meaning that everyone that plays eve plays on the same server.

An "instance" is a copy of a dungeon or area of a dungeon or zone or whatever.

Basically Grim1 is being an idiot and confusing the shit out of people. Call a shard a shard or a server and an instance an instance so people do not get confused.
 
Nirgon

Nirgon

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I don't feel entitled to raid end game on this shit.

If I only have a few hours a day, I'll enjoy the content that fits my time frame and read up on the doings of the youngins.

In fact, if the entire leveling up experience is fun and social, I'll be happy with wherever I land and the pvp that takes place.

Some of the fonder memories I have involve running around in the Freeport sands or hiding in the sewers on a lvl 5 troll SK with a fine steel 2h.
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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Grim1_sl said:
Who are those people? I don't know of any. What I see is a range of people. Some think that EQNext should be EQ with only minor changes but they still think there is room for improvement. Most are somewhere in the middle, keep a lot of EQ's danger and slow leveling etc, but bring in some modern changes that are good also. And few only want WoW with EQ's classes and the name.

It's a good discussion for the most part. The people I object to most are the ones who continue to throw the "neckbeard" term around to belittle people all while projecting an asshattery level of love for mechanics like instancing and "WIN!" buttons. It's ok to like WoW and it's style of gaming, it's very popular. But to belittle people because we think there are already too many WoW clones around doesn't do anyone any good.
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See, that's a rational discussion. Neckbeard is for people like qwerty who get ridiculous with their fanaticism and people who get hypersensitive because you didn't like a certain feature in a 14 year old game. Overcrowding absolutely was a problem, and saying it wasn't and I just didn't have any balls is nonsensical. I also don't think expecting to be able and do something worthwhile when I play a game is an "I win" button.

Having said that, wow has gotten stale and I absolutely would prefer different solutions than what we've seen since wow came out. Just understand lot of the things they added: instancing, less punishment for dying, more involved combat, etc. were put in for a reason. You can say they weren't the best solutions or that they went too far, and I would agree with you. Staring at your hotbar doing finger ddr isn't that enjoyable. Then again standing in one spot hitting 2 every 8 seconds wasn't much better. Everything instanced makes it seem like less of a world and more of a lobby dungeon game, but having places you want to go completely packed and being on a 4 hour list is also shitty.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
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Caeden_sl said:
You'd be lucky to get four hours a day from the average 30 year old today. Just not happening. Making no comment on the design and how that should guide it if at all, but SoE is a business and I bet those guys' lives have changed too. Just a thought.
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4 hours everyday yeah I can't do that. But i can find 4 hours maybe twice a week plus longer on weekends. More than enough commitment for the FnF guilds I play with when I play mmos and which form the largest population of guilds. That said you forget that unlike wow in eq old content was relevant. So soe should design for the uberguilds. They'll get to do all the fresh content in poopsocker time while the rest of us mosey on at our own pace. I've got no problem working on an old raid with my slow pokey 2xweek raiding buddies while the ubers are parading in the latest gear. It doesn't affect my enjoyment. As for Timmys who think they deserve gold medals for bronze star work, screw em.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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mkopec_sl said:
Shard means server or cluster of servers which you play on. Like in EQ, the game runs on multiple game servers, each with a unique name for identification. These names were originally the deities of the world of Norrath. In technical terms, each game server is actually a cluster of server machines. Once a character is created, it can be played only on that server unless the character is transferred to a new server by the customer service staff, generally for a fee. Each server often has a unique community and people often include the server name when identifying their character outside of the game.

In eve there is only one shard or server, meaning that everyone that plays eve plays on the same server.

An "instance" is a copy of a dungeon or area of a dungeon or zone or whatever.

Basically Grim1 is being an idiot and confusing the shit out of people. Call a shard a shard or a server and an instance an instance so people do not get confused.
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Fuck off moron.

Vanguard called their version of instances shards. I understand it's other meaning and the rest of the technical specifics. But when dealing with the public many technical terms become something else depending on what the devs think the players will understand or to differentiate their game from the competition. Its' the same reason battlegrounds become warfronts, etc.

The Vanguard devs called it a shard and not an instance because it wasn't the same kind of instance that normally is associated with the term. Their "shards" were multiple copys of the same dungeon that anyone could access. And it was a good use for the word even though it didn't mean what the minority of geekoids think it does.

Instancing has bad connotations and generally means to the public a separate zone that only one player or group can access. Even though that isn't it's technical meaning it is what most players associate with the term.

So as I hate "instances" the way most people understand it. I can live with "shards" the way Vanguard defined it. It is a workable compromise to the problem of overcrowded open world dungeons without much of the baggage that comes from the type of instancing most mmos have.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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SOE also called it instancing the same overworld zones in EQ2 when population zone caps would hit. They should have just called it overflow. Either way, all the companies are fucking retards for giving new names to the same shit, and they do it purposely to mislead the public into thinking their copied idea is new when it isn't, or, to purposely make gamers think their term is something it isn't. For example, SWTOR's phases being nothing more than a sole landscape one enters to do a quick story/quest, when phasing in WoW was hugely popular and meant a changing of the dynamic zone to a different sub set graphic once a player was flagged for it, giving the feel of impact on the area. Flashpoint = Instance. Ooh. Shiny new term... meaning the same exact fucking thing. Shard meaning overflow/zone instance.

At the end of the day it's all worthless marketing. If they put more time into making the game then what to name their re-used feature see in every game since 2001, we might see better games.
 
Soygen

Soygen

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This is one of the dumber semantics arguments in this thread and that'sreallysaying something!
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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Soygen_sl said:
This is one of the dumber semantics arguments in this thread and that'sreallysaying something!
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What's even more dumb is how the industry promotes it and it becomes a topic of conversation anyway.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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Utnayan_sl said:
SOE also called it instancing the same overworld zones in EQ2 when population zone caps would hit. They should have just called it overflow. Either way, all the companies are fucking retards for giving new names to the same shit, and they do it purposely to mislead the public into thinking their copied idea is new when it isn't.
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Well it's english. And in english many words have more than one meaning. And what would you call Vanguard's version of instancing? It wasn't overflow because there a set number of instances. No more no less.

In the end it doesn't matter what the fuck they call it. As long as the players in game are comfortable with the term. And nobody in Vanguard whined about the word "shards".

Soygen is right. This is a stupid argument. Devs aren't the only people to come up with new meanings to old words. If people don't like the way English is used then they're in for a rough time in life.
 
Utnayan

Utnayan

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Because it pertained to one (APW) area and that's all. Soygen is right this argument is retarded. Its the same damn thing, different terminology trying to think of a name which doesn't have repercussions that goes against the static nature of the game to make sure fans do not get upset.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Go ahead and keep sharding up this thread with your fucked up meanings of words because Vanguard, yeah.
 
Grim1

Grim1

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There wasn't an issue until you started whining and goosestepping. I think shard is a great term for the form of instancing I can live with. If you don't then I can live with laughing at your discomfort.
 
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