EQ Never

Probably not far off. I wouldn't be surprised if multi-classing in general was locked behind a pay gate. Switch classes whenever you want, but if you wanna mix, you gotta pay!

Braen_sl said:

What was playing a Warrior in Eq1 like? In soloing/grouping/raiding. How did you play them? What were the abilities you used in those situations?

I ask because playing a class in this game with 8 -12 class abilities seems like more things to do than say the warrior class in EQ1. Someone mentioned, how can 4 or whatever abilities make a class. How many true abilities did the Warrior in EQ1 have?

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These days it's different, because melees get "disciplines". When they were first introduced in Kunark most were something you saved for specific situations, lots of "oh shit" buttons. But these days, some of them are like that, but many are "smash as soon as it's refreshed".

But yeah, early EQ, a warrior just spammed like...kick and taunt or whatever. Maybe shield bash. And beg if they had a good macro. The fight though was more about positioning the mob properly, watching the mob push, interrupting their big spells, picking up adds, watching rampage (maybe disc'ing at the right time), telling the group (in a raid setting) when it was okay to engage, that type of stuff. On paper it was very easy stuff, but people managed to screw it up anyways.

Convo_sl said:

Lurkers are coming out in force.

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A lot of them are just qwerty alts.

Creslin_sl said:

Small differences can be pretty big in close fights. I really don't get the hate on this class system. Like the class systems in other games offer you real choices? What choice did you have in EQ that you won't have in this game?

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Someone isn't going to be please no matter what.

Now they're not complaining about choices, they're complaining that too many choices make them lose their 'identity'.

Quaid_sl said:

So, the only REAL customization comes from hero (character) abilities. But you have to ask yourself, why do they seem so chill and laissez faire about balance issues? Ill tell you why - because the character skills, within their various types, are going to be almost totally homogeneous. Sure, a wizard will have a blink ability to keep it mobile, but it will be almost identical to the warrior's leap, and the ranger's ground slide or whatever. Who cares which one you pick? They are basically the same skill with different animations...

Prove me wrong Sony.

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Yeah, I think a lot of skills are going to essentially be like the difference between Runes in Diablo. So Whirlwind is always Whirlwind, but one type of Whirlwind does more damage, one lets you move faster, one might return life on hit ect ect. So if you have Berserker, Marauder, Viking, Anal-Raper--and these are all "Great Sword" wielding classes, they might have on their great sword 4 different names for WhirlWind, but the difference between each type will be a small change, not the basic skill. (So Blood Whirl, Howling Wind ect ect corny name here)

And that's still going to create a lot of variables, because you combine that with classes having different skill slots and the skills you pick up from each class, and how armor can change how you employ skills (By modding their cost, duration, range, proc effects) and even small variances in skills could potentially have dramatic effects given how you combo them out.

This is actually exactly what I said D3 should have done, I made a ton of posts about it last year....

But I agree with you, from a persistant world stand point? I worry about a character or class I put a ton of time into being so fluid that I feel like it's a revolving door rather than something I'm attached to. But I guess it doesn't really matter, the different variations of a "berserker" will still end up falling into the arche type of "offensive warrior"--the small differences are just there to customize, and you gotta collect them all! (Pokemon!)

Quaid_sl said:

I've been playing DOTA since your grandparents were in diapers sonny.

I get it man... But original EQ... If you were an enchanter you were so vastly different from a cleric, or a warrior, or a monk it was basically a different game. Not so much with EQnext.

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That's why the most class iconic abilities need to be Weapon Abilities. IE: Cleric Heal ability as their Flail Weapon Ability, Flying Dragon Kick as the Fist Weapon Ability, etc.

Lenas_sl said:

I'm calling bullshit on EQ1 play styles being different for most classes. If you were a melee you would auto attack and mash kick. If you were a caster you'd /assist and Alt+1-4.

The only different play styles in EQ1 were very specific classes and I'm sure SOE can manage to make something similar with 40 of them.

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Melee classes were pretty much hit a and then hit flying kick/taunt/bash/shitty hybrid spell every 8 seconds. I'm starting to think people who wanted Eq 1 part 2 don't even really know what they want.

I do think first person view would go a long way, though

Grumpus_sl said:

How I imagine qwerty's day.

Qwerty wakes up.

"I fucking hate sleeping what stupidy dooda purpose does it serve. Oh great cereal again with OH LOOK MILK. FUCK COWS. Captain crunch can go fuck himself with crunch berries for all I care. Might as well turn on my useless gd TV, nothing good will be on anyways."

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i would watch this

Bruman_sl said:

These days it's different, because melees get "disciplines". When they were first introduced in Kunark most were something you saved for specific situations, lots of "oh shit" buttons. But these days, some of them are like that, but many are "smash as soon as it's refreshed".

But yeah, early EQ, a warrior just spammed like...kick and taunt or whatever. Maybe shield bash. And beg if they had a good macro. The fight though was more about positioning the mob properly, watching the mob push, interrupting their big spells, picking up adds, watching rampage (maybe disc'ing at the right time), telling the group (in a raid setting) when it was okay to engage, that type of stuff. On paper it was very easy stuff, but people managed to screw it up anyways.

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You forgot flipping an enraged raid boss on the melee DPS to see who was AFK and who was actually paying attention.

Warrior: Hit A. Put back to corner. Hit 1 and 3 and 4 as you please.

You've done your job, warrior! Sorry about the lost roll on your bracer. You can fight this boss again in 72 hours...if you're on the schedule.

Yeah let's remake that.

Teekey_sl said:

That's why the most class iconic abilities need to be Weapon Abilities. IE: Cleric Heal ability as their Flail Weapon Ability, Flying Dragon Kick as the Fist Weapon Ability, etc.

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If I had to guess, I think you're going to see one TRULY unique weapon and one unique class skill for each class. A few "copy" skills that do the same thing but have different buffs/debuffs/effects (Like the whirlwind example above) and these skills will all be of the same "archetype" and then you will have pooled skills, that get shared among the weapon type or the class type (So Daggers and Rogues/Assasins/Ninja might have a few of the same exact skills).

In the end, that's still going to be a couple hundred unique skills and each build will still be different because of how skills/buffs/debuffs can play off each other (Even without intending combos) and because of how gear will augment everyone's skills differently (I thought their copper example of making lightning better was cool--so even if people have the same skills, they might use them differently, based on gear).

Lithose_sl said:

Yeah, I think a lot of skills are going to essentially be like the difference between Runes in Diablo. So Whirlwind is always Whirlwind, but one type of Whirlwind does more damage, one lets you move faster, one might return life on hit ect ect. So if you have Berserker, Marauder, Viking, Anal-Raper--and these are all "Great Sword" wielding classes, they might have on their great sword 4 different names for WhirlWind, but the difference between each type will be a small change, not the basic skill. (So Blood Whirl, Howling Wind ect ect corny name here)

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Well, they've already shown that Weapon Abilities aren't necessarily going to be tied to the weapon. I'm sure there will be Backstab for Rogues with Daggers, Shield Bash for Paladins with Shields, Whirlwind for Warriors with 2H Swords. But one ability they listed as a Weapon Ability for Warriors with Shields was "Heroic Leap". So Weapon Skills doesn't have to be intrinsically tied to the weapon itself - just more to the role/archetype of that class.

Also you have to consider that just because there's multiple Movement spells, they don't necessarily all work the same or are beneficial for ever scenario. Rogues may prefer the Class Ability [Path of Shadows] to teleport behind a mob. Perhaps they could use a [Blink] from Wizards instead. It gives them a little more control, but it doesn't combo as well with their [Backstab] as [Path of Shadows] does. Or maybe they can choose Monk Class Ability [Roll], which is even shorter range, but you have a ring that increases movement speed for for 10 seconds after using it.

So just because abilities are similar, doesn't mean they're generics and can or should be traded in and out without any thought at all. How your abilities combo, who you're fighting, and what armor you're weaing should always go into consideration.

Lithose_sl said:

But I agree with you, from a persistant world stand point? I worry about a character or class I put a ton of time into being so fluid that I feel like it's a revolving door rather than something I'm attached to. But I guess it doesn't really matter, the different variations of a "berserker" will still end up falling into the arche type of "offensive warrior"--the small differences are just there to customize, and you gotta collect them all! (Pokemon!)

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Well, their goal is for you to essentially create you own classes and identify with it because it's your creation. You can be a pure Druid if you want, but you can also mix Druid and Warrior to be a Nature Knight.

Have they mentioned any of the following or hinted at in any form: staff of temperate flux or other clickies, invis/see invis, enduring breath/swimming, levitation, SoW/selos, epic quests, bazaar/AH, item repair, charged items/recharging, gating mobs, mob summoning?

Teekey_sl said:

Also you have to consider that just because there's multiple Movement spells, they don't necessarily all work the same or are beneficial for ever scenario. Rogues may prefer the Class Ability [Path of Shadows] to teleport behind a mob. Perhaps they could use a [Blink] from Wizards instead. It gives them a little more control, but it doesn't combo as well with their [Backstab] as [Path of Shadows] does. Or maybe they can choose Monk Class Ability [Roll], which is even shorter range, but you have a ring that increases movement speed for for 10 seconds after using it.

So just because abilities are similar, doesn't mean they're generics and can or should be traded in and out without any thought at all. How your abilities combo, who you're fighting, and what armor you're weaing should always go into consideration.

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Ahead of ya

Lithose_sl said:

each build will still be different because of how skills/buffs/debuffs can play off each other (Even without intending combos) and because of how gear will augment everyone's skills differently (I thought their copper example of making lightning better was cool--so even if people have the same skills, they might use them differently, based on gear).

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This is what started to make D3 interesting, if they would have followed through with gear augmenting abilities too--it would have been great. But yeah, even small changes can have a dramatic impact with how they are augmented by other skills, and gear. In D3, for example, tons of skills could become viable or completely useless just based on a small augmentation that let them play nice with other skills. So even small changes, on the same basic premise, can be important, I agree.

Erronius_sl said:

I don't remember there being all that many abilities, though it's been so long maybe I'm forgetting stuff. I also remember weapon procs and augs being a large part of war agro along with item abilities as opposed to knights that had better snap and generation via abilities. Again it's been a long time, but I do remember going to WOW and noticing a huge difference. Many more abilities, large emphasis on agro via abilities and combos like shield block + revenge, ability to solo, etc etc etc. It seemed like night and day to me. Not that I liked all of what WOW introduced, I pretty much despised stance dancing on principle for example, but wars in EQ1 always seemed like they were a beta version of a class to me and weren't ever fleshed out. What Bruman says about positioning and the rest is true, but I honestly don't think the class was defined by abilities as much as (later on) HP pool and mit. Though I do remember there being some flux as far as warriors go and changes over time but it's been so long I don't remember exactly.

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I played a warrior. Vanilla was pretty bland. Auto-attack, bash (eventually kick), and taunt. That was about it. Eventually you got disciplines and Defensive was the only one used 98% of the time. Positioning helped quite a bit. A good warrior would pull the mob into the camp where the rest of the melee would already have the mob's back and not have to waste time to run around for optimal positions. What really made a good warrior was knowing the layout of the zone. You essentially set the pace of the group / pulls. Despite all of that, it was probably one of the most gear dependnt classes in game. You could be the best at all of the above, but if you had armor the equivalent of wet paper, you would go down like a sack of shit and the cleric would be oom on every pull.

This was mostly relevant up through Velious. AA changed a whole lot from Luclin on.

Gravity Flux in a destructible environment would be really really cool

you could kill yourself with it easy