For once I have to agree with Teekey.. Naxx in wow comes to mind when it was first released. PLane of fear, hate when first released. GUK, still a bitch.
EQ Never
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Randin
Trakanon Raider
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For that matter, the day/night cycle video they showed for Ashfang, while not pitch black, did at least seem dark enough that torches would be useful, even if they aren't a requirement.
The difficulty you are listing is in trial and error learning the correct strat ( a timsink), or in getting enough +1 gooder gear to defeat the challenge (another timesink). I never said there were no difficult encounters. I simply said it pretty much all boils down to a timesink of some sort. I just don't think that 'difficluty' should be reserved for the upper 1% of content.
Lithose
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Yep, it's Pokemon, but in a more League of Legends format. You collect the Pokemon, then you "evolve" them by tiering them up and getting gear for them.
In the end, people won't be known for a "class" so much as for a role or archetype. It will be more like League of Legends in that way--so some people will known for being "Tanks", but that essentially means the Pokemons, I mean classes, they choose to focus on will be of the tank type. So they will have Warrior, Samurai, Dragoon, Knight (ect ect) "tiered" up and ready, each class offering a slightly different take on the theme--these small differences allow for "counter" selection in picking a class for a job.
So, boss has lots of adds? Dragoon (A tank class with heavy AE), I choose you!
Boss does a ton of magic damage? Knight, with magic resist load out, I choose you!
They will all play "kind of" the same, but with different animations and variations on a theme. Like subsets in LoL (Bruiser, Caster ect). Becoming more powerful in the game is going to end up being about having more classes, because then you'll have a tailored made "counter" to more situations. Again, like Pokemon, being able to pick lightning vs water, or water vs fire ect ect.
And the measure of difficulty would be holy shit, if I die we are doing like a 48 hour cr in fear. THAT IS FEAR!
Lithose
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I'm betting you'll get to "tier up" abilities, like leveling them in LoL. And you'll get access to more gear types, and broader gear subsets (So your chest at Tier 1 might have 3 slots for "special" add ons, while at Tier 3 it might have 7). The increase in variable add on's from gear could make each tier increase dramatically different in play style and ability, without ever having to give new abilities.
For example, if I have a 7 slot BP, and I can add seven -1 cost to lightning, it could potentially make a lot of lightning abilities viable for a tier 3 of X class, that weren't for a tier 1. Or, if I had a 7 slot BP, and I slotted in 7 +10% area mods for sword based AE, that could make a bunch of specific weapon abilities very different.
In other words, I think tiering up won't be about new abilities, it will be about augmenting ones you have in very different ways.
Lenas
Trump's Staff
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I'd be fine with keeping my base Snare ability if it means at Tier 3 I can slot my gear with something to make it AoE, or instant cast, or longer duration. Essentially no different that memorizing a new spell. If these upgrades are hard to come by, and you can't just swap gear enchants willy-nilly, people could have vastly different builds in the end-game. Even given the same gear, class and chosen abilities.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Regarding Cookie Cutter builds; if it will be any way like TSW's system, you will have some cookie cutter builds that mediocre players who can't be bothered to test things themselves use, and you will have builds made by more experienced players who understand the system, which is usually kept secret within the guilds.
Sounds like you are on the right track to me that is the only way they can do it besides just adding stats, except they said theres no armor tiers.
Celebrindal
Golden Squire
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I don't think I've ever been more afraid of a game than the first time I entered the Plane of Fear.
Lenas
Trump's Staff
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Whether they have you slotting enchants onto armor or getting tattoos on your character, they could find a way to put the mechanic in the game. It's just semantics.
I thought they implied there were armor tiers. Like needing to collect certain tier 2 armor to go up to the next tier in a class.
Lenas
Trump's Staff
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They did, they gave an example of unlocking Warrior tier 3 by collecting the tier 2 armor set.
Fair enough, I guess my idea of a timesink is different than most. I do in fact consider learning an action to be a timesink, at least as long as the end goal and not the process itself is what you are aiming for.
Want to be a better free throw shooter? Gotta put in the timesink of puting up 500 shots a day.
Lithose
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Yep, me too. In fact, when I wrote about D3, I brought up how this was one of the defining differences between D3 and D2. I expected gear to alter abilities in the way runes did. In terms of EQ2 imagine if you got a "metal strip of Yakesha"--an "add on" that takes, say, 6 slots in a "plate" chest. So it can only fit into Tier 3 or above chest slots. But what it does is augmentSwordAbilities to ProcYakesha-Drain, which is a DD proc that siphons 10% Speed from the target and grants it to you.
But lets also say there are "gems of Yakesha" out there, that fit into helm armor, 1 slot each, that increase the proc chance of "any Yakesha Proc (Because there is more than one type)", and there are "runes of area damage" also give the player a PBAOE for a % of damage done by the sword ability, every time a "random" proc happens (So it works with more than just Yakesha based abilities) and that % increases with the amount of these runes. You could literally shape and entire class around augmenting Skills (In this case sword) with these gear choices, and then combining more abilities and gear choices that work well with these new variables. And you can even throw class choice into this mix, because lets say "blade lord" and "Samurai" has a special sword ability that strikes twice, giving two chances per proc for every swing and (While most other blade classes get one...So you'd need a plate class, with swords to build this item set, but these two specific classes can use it more effectively because of their specific sword ability. So collecting specific classes, to build into specific item builds, is important.)
Or it could even be more straight forward. Like having "blink" and getting a BP with +10 yards and -10% cost on blink, and then finding some metal strips that reduce blink cost. But then you pair all that up, with "back stab" and another item mod that increases back stab damage, or adds a stun proc, but increases the cost of back stab by X amount--normally pairing blink and back stab would be impossible, but with the BP bonus, and the BP add ons, this combo becomes viable at T4, or whatever.
Diablo 2 kind of scratched the surface with this kind of design. Classes could completely change based on items. And I think, when everyone saw Runes in D3, they thought that systems of multiple variables on base skills, was going to be expanded. But then it turned out runes were just a UI thing. (Well they were originally items...so..)
If EQ ACTUALLY does build into that system--of items having thousands of augmentations of skills, and then further augmenting those augmentations with more items? THAT could be amazing. It could be revolutionary in terms of MMO item design, in my opinion. I have serious reservations about every other aspect of this game, but I do REALLY like that potential aspect. Classes that are completely different based on items, not just +gooder. So someone with the above "Yakesha" inspired item set, might be completely different from someone with "Vampire" item set, even if they use the same abilities. Heck, even two people using "Yakesha" mods, could be different if they use different base Breast Plates (Like one uses Elven, One uses Human, which adds different variables). The combos could, potentially, be very broad and deep, because combonations might not even become possible until certain items could be found and brought together (Like the above example--it could be the Yak AE build, but it wouldn't be possible until all those Yak pieces are put into a human T4 armor, and used on a class with the correct utility slots, and with the correct weapon main hand. So you'd need the class, the abilities to back it up, and then all the item mods AND the items for those item mods to go into.)
Problem is, dps is the free throw shot not raiding. Raiding is combining an ability to avoid all mechanics while pumping out your best dps and not agroing, and throwing in whatever utility you have available, or in basketball terms dribbling shooting driving and defense. Those things make up the skill of the sport or the raid and even when you put lots of time in, your output isn't exactly the same.
Teekey
Mr. Poopybutthole
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And considering some builds will only work with specific gear, it might make 'cookie cutter' builds not as big of an issue in EverQuest Next because they'll take some work to achieve, and not just a matter respecing.
End up with the diablo style builds if they do this right, "I can't slot these skills til I get all the death damage modifier armor."
Also get a situation where you need x y and z classes so you can get the appropriate skills for your build. All in all sounds interesting at least.