EQ Never

Flipmode

Flipmode

EQOA Refugee
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flux_sl said:
The problem is that now the PvP cat is out of the bag so most people expect that in any new mmorpg title that it will have PvP more then just an after thought and if it doesn't there would be a large audience which would be turned away as a result of not having it.
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So...what? Screw the core PVE game to appease a few PVP players that won't stick around anyways? I'm ok with them building their game and not catering to all the things dragging MMOs down. Want good PVP? Go play a FPS or MOBA. MMO PVP is so lame anyways.
 
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flux_sl

shitlord
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0
Unfortunately it's more then a "few" which is why every MMORPG in say the last 10 years adds it in their game in one form or another.

Flipmode_sl said:
MMO PVP is so lame anyways.
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Clearly this is a matter of opinion, but I generally agree with you, but this doesn't necessarily have to be the case.
 
Muligan

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
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Everyone see on Twitter where Smed announced they let the EQ and EQ2 teams see EQNext for the "first time"? Do we really need someone on the inside right now that could throw us some anonymous information. I would really just like to know how much is done...
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I tweeted him our address.. Never know.. Sounds like the push is about to begin If they showed the teams. I'm hoping early next year
 
Rod-138

Rod-138

Trakanon Raider
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I work with a couple of WoW addicts that often express their interest in the EQ world, but they are younglings and do not fully understand. Not every gamer is a borderline genius(this dude was a deckhand and I'm a safety guy), and half of the fun of EQ was being more badass and having real tiers of gamer capability.

Once you have 10 years of similar games, the skill curve becomes a lot flatter. If EQN can attract and retain people while providing something different enough to create some disparity, then by God, it may be alright. That guy I work with could probably learn a class or 2, but it would take him months just to get off the ground and start to saturate some of the stuff us eq junkies have stored in our heads. I'd appreciate a game that brought in new players and rewarded our bad habits.
 
Xeldar

Xeldar

Silver Squire
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If I drop an AE in the middle of my group w/ mobs, it better hit my group + mobs (played Vallon Zek).
 
xzi

xzi

Mouthbreather
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PvP should just be something stupid like everyone becoming ONE class based on if they're magic/melee/heals/ranged/etc and everyone is exactly the same, same spells and stats don't matter. Right there, they don't have to worry about it fucking with PvE, and PvP players no longer can complain about balance. (they will anyways)
 
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Lvl_32_Bard_LFG_sl

shitlord
375
8
I was a bard obv. in EQ. One of the things I enjoyed the most, besides community, environs, lore, grinds, guild disparity etc. was the sheer amount of ingame clickies. Granted, some classes had more (us bards/rogues), but the utility and SENSE of character depth, determination, identity etc each item gave (be it Tinker Mask, Sorrowsong Boots, or less pro items like Singing Steel clickies) always had me hungry. I had like fucking 7 bags of class-unique clickies before I quit EQ. My necro had a prenerf CoS, Boneshear, and nearly just as many. Every class could get unique clickies. You know what? WoW and games of today dont have that shit, that indepth feel of truly living in and INVESTING in a character. It did with pvp hk counts and Battlemaster progression, but they social wellfared that too. I WANT a game that can give me that DEPTH of character again. Give me that, and I'm hooked. Fucking clickies... I love you.


On topic of PvP, that's what I did in WoW when they made raids fucking 25 man. That was horse shit. I knew a guy in GoD who would like 15 box the goats in Uqua and sell loot rites. WoW pvp was worthwhile and mostly enjoyable, but in a game like EQ- you all are right, if has little to no place or purpose. Yet, player competition is fun both for loot, pride, fame, and glory.
 
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Faiona_sl

shitlord
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Lvl_32_Bard_LFG_sl said:
I was a bard obv. in EQ. One of the things I enjoyed the most, besides community, environs, lore, grinds, guild disparity etc. was the sheer amount of ingame clickies. Granted, some classes had more (us bards/rogues), but the utility and SENSE of character depth, determination, identity etc each item gave (be it Tinker Mask, Sorrowsong Boots, or less pro items like Singing Steel clickies) always had me hungry. I had like fucking 7 bags of class-unique clickies before I quit EQ. My necro had a prenerf CoS, Boneshear, and nearly just as many. Every class could get unique clickies. You know what? WoW and games of today dont have that shit, that indepth feel of truly living in and INVESTING in a character. It did with pvp hk counts and Battlemaster progression, but they social wellfared that too. I WANT a game that can give me that DEPTH of character again. Give me that, and I'm hooked. Fucking clickies... I love you.


On topic of PvP, that's what I did in WoW when they made raids fucking 25 man. That was horse shit. I knew a guy in GoD who would like 15 box the goats in Uqua and sell loot rites. WoW pvp was worthwhile and mostly enjoyable, but in a game like EQ- you all are right, if has little to no purpose.
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I loved clickies as well. Clickies by themselves made it worthwhile to go in and do super old content to try and get them. I never understood why other MMOs didn't incorporate them (at least ones that I have played have never had anything similar)
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Lvl_32_Bard_LFG_sl

shitlord
375
8
Faiona_sl said:
I loved clickies as well. Clickies by themselves made it worthwhile to go in and do super old content to try and get them. I never understood why other MMOs didn't incorporate them (at least ones that I have played have never had anything similar)
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Yea, I loved long solo camps for rare unique items. I must have spent like 40-50 hours in Chardok for the Halfling Mask. Read that a fellow minstrel on the old EQDiva boards spent like 500 hours camping it LOL! No one wants to be that guy, but damn... Camps and clickies are as important as anything when it comes to a deep, enriched, and interesting PVE game.

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qwertyqweqwertwqert

<Banned>
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They should get rid of feign splitting and have Harmony/Lull type spells as the only way to get singles. And it should be hard to do because stuff wanders around (mobs should wander far more, rather than all stood still waiting to be pulled). So the Druid or whoever is doing it, has to get up very close to the mobs to lull them all, and they are at constant risk of pather aggroing and pulling the entire bunch in one go. Not only that, but a failed lull should pull all the mobs. It works like this in Vanguard and you learn that lull is extremely powerful and able to make a pull of 5 in to a pull of 1. But if it goes wrong it could be a pull of 5 or more, all of a sudden.

I like it that way because it means lulling is a skill people will have to get good with, and yet it wont be ez-mode because occasionally when it does fail, the group needs to be able to handle a really bad pull and survive. The problem with Vanguard is that the combat is just too easy, so even when a lull does fail, it's not a big deal. Tanks can AE aggro pretty easily, and around 5 or more classes have really powerful crowd control spells. And the DK is basically indestructible anyway, and in fact the more mobs that attack a DK the better because all it does is make their AE lifetap more powerful...

But make it like EQ but with lull pulling and no more FD splits, and that would make for some tense dungeon encounters. Every room you intend to split and break in to, would potentially be a wipe, and quite a high chance of it too. I remember early EQ was exactly like that, but a year later when Monks and SK's had FD splitting down to a fine art, it made it all easy.


p.s. As for PVP, I think they should have special ruleset servers similar to the original EQ. There should be roleplay and PVP servers, ffa, team based etc. You would only need a few and it would keep those people happy, and everyone else plays PVE EQ. I also think there should be an arena in even PVE EQ so they can do stuff like those Best of the Best events and stuff and maybe make a bigger feature out of it. And of course duels. The only thing I think they should avoid, is battlegrounds and open world PVP content, because the game just ends up like Rift where they end up trying to do a bit of everything and end up spreading themselves too thinly.
 
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Lvl_32_Bard_LFG_sl

shitlord
375
8
I loved pulling in EQ. It was a constant rush. Pulling pre PoP as a bard with no Fading Memories (aggro egress semi memwipe) was difficult. Like you said, you had to rely more on lulls. If something backfired you could always kite, mezz (either with bard songs, Enchanter mezzs, roots from various classes etc) whic really made for as you said, tense but deeply enjoyable encounters and dungeon crawls.

I agree a lot with what you say Qwerty in these forums, but FD splitting just enhances the game, bolsters design and allows for random NPC pathing, and leads to more class variety and unscripted, random occurrences to happen. FD was a great pull tool. In playing monk friends accounts, I would realize just how damn OP bard pulling had become. Monk FD splits and aggroing a la "flopping" was hard as HELL at first. Mad respect to Monk's of old, if anything keep this into games. It is fascinating and enjoyable to try to figure out and employ correctly.

God, fucking dungeons these days in modern MMO theatre are so bad. I'm having flashbacks of zoning into Wrath-era dungeons and just slaughtering thru combat, with the aid of an occasional pally stun or lock fear to help split. The present day crawl is not a crawl, but a fucking sprint to the end. A 'German zerg force' blitz to the end for free candy.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Haha this thread is going too good. Where is Poopsicle at? Was he a troll account? I would of thought he showed up by now..
 
Caeden

Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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All that with pulling/lulls is all well and good, but I sorta fail to see that it'll bring in mass subs. Though, why should mass subs be the point right?

Just tossing it out there that cata bled subs and apparently blizz thought it was at least in part due to the difficulty and cc required. Will be interesting to see MoP retention. I loved cata heroics and tbc heroics which, while not the open crawl you guys are discussing, is as close as wow got.

I just thing if they go that route, I'd expect to only have a fraction of wow subs. Again fine. But does SoE agree?

Edit: brd was really closest but I never really experienced that until leveling with tbc talents. I remember an epic half day slog with me and the ex with a buddy. It was a fond yet massively frustrating experience.
 
Flipmode

Flipmode

EQOA Refugee
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Poopsicle had some good points about some stuff though. Don't let the rose colored glasses skew perspective on stuff. But we've had a lot of games made in the WoW model and honestly, there won't be another WoW. Plus, aren't people tired of this model of high box sales followed by massive exodus. It's obviously not the formula for long term success. I don't long for corpse runs or any other retarded mechanic, I just miss the challenge. The games are too easy these days. Most of SOE's ideas of challenge are tedium. They need to learn the difference before they end up out of business.
 
Convo

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,761
613
Flipmode_sl said:
Poopsicle had some good points about some stuff though. Don't let the rose colored glasses skew perspective on stuff. But we've had a lot of games made in the WoW model and honestly, there won't be another WoW. Plus, aren't people tired of this model of high box sales followed by massive exodus. It's obviously not the formula for long term success. I don't long for corpse runs or any other retarded mechanic, I just miss the challenge. The games are too easy these days. Most of SOE's ideas of challenge are tedium. They need to learn the difference before they end up out of business.
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This was actually my biggest disagreement with him. I just wanted 1 game that moved away from the current genre
 
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Lvl_32_Bard_LFG_sl

shitlord
375
8
In thinking of the old EQ experience and hell- the current- I just think EQers both past and present have way more fucking imagination and creativity than do their peers in other games. I remember EQ groups having rangers healing tanks or other party members when shit hit the fan via a bad pull or a small train etc. that shit largely doesn't happen in random WoW. Maybe in the big guilds, but in casual day to day EQ groups this would occur, people would think out of the box in terms to playing their character. I remember trying to throw a few heals in dungeons on my shadow priest and ret pally fairly recently during fights that the tank or someone else was near death. The group, I shit you not, would go apeshit and people would leave. It's just not fun and novel anymore. Fuckin' gearscore, ventrilo, and DPS boners...

The above posts are why I try to stay out of these forums both here and on FoH in the past. I go fully automatic retard with opinions and shoot them out like a .50 cal in the south of Afghanistan.
 
Flipmode

Flipmode

EQOA Refugee
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Caeden_sl said:
All that with pulling/lulls is all well and good, but I sorta fail to see that it'll bring in mass subs. Though, why should mass subs be the point right?

Just tossing it out there that cata bled subs and apparently blizz thought it was at least in part due to the difficulty and cc required. Will be interesting to see MoP retention. I loved cata heroics and tbc heroics which, while not the open crawl you guys are discussing, is as close as wow got.

I just thing if they go that route, I'd expect to only have a fraction of wow subs. Again fine. But does SoE agree?
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Why does SOE need to do what WoW does? It's not like copying WoW will ensure success or an increase in subs for the other game that copies them. I'd argue that if a person wanted to play a game like WoW, they'd just play WoW. SOE needs to get back to their EQ roots and create their own niche. Stop playing the monkey see, monkey do game.
 
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