EQ TLP - Vaniki (Level-Locked Progression)

Rajaah

Rajaah

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yerm said:
Yeah one solution here is to talk to these people and tell them to stop being such assfucks. If you have a guy who only buys weapons and it fucks others, is someone saying something? Also if they're doing this and only raid logging, they sound like a shit person to have, they're not even putting their gear to use in off others helping people enjoy the game? Did anyone have an honest talk with the man?

I think 9 times out of 10 the problems here aren't dkps fault. They are players being shitty. A weapon collector can still do that in fixed price anyway.
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Yeah, various monx did ask him if he could go for piercers or blunts instead and leave the H2H to monks (in those eras H2H > the others for monks) and he basically refused, said he was an H2H collector and entitled to it because of all the DKP he'd earned. This was also in a guild back in 2008 or so whose leader generally coasted and avoided confrontation. On a modern TLP he probably would have gotten the boot.

Actually if anything the guy is a great case for "decaying legacy DKP" systems. He had massive amounts of "old money" DKP accumulated from the early expansions that prevented anyone from ever contesting him, even if they also had 100% RA in modern expansions. Make old expansion DKP count for less as time goes on, or do a squish every time a new expansion comes out, and boom, problem solved. A squish means the guy earning tons of DKP still has an advantage going into newer expansions, just not a completely overwhelming one.
 
yerm

yerm

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You could probably get around some of this by having multiple dkp pools, earned simultaneously and equally, but one is only spent on class specific items, weapons, and mounts/illusions. You could also put in a cap and when bids reach that point they go to ra% thresholds with a roll or whatever, I've seen this done a decent amount of times.

Rajaah said:
Yeah, various monx did ask him if he could go for piercers or blunts instead and leave the H2H to monks (in those eras H2H > the others for monks) and he basically refused, said he was an H2H collector and entitled to it because of all the DKP he'd earned. This was also in a guild back in 2008 or so whose leader generally coasted and avoided confrontation. On a modern TLP he probably would have gotten the boot.

Actually if anything the guy is a great case for "decaying legacy DKP" systems. He had massive amounts of "old money" DKP accumulated from the early expansions that prevented anyone from ever contesting him, even if they also had 100% RA in modern expansions. Make old expansion DKP count for less as time goes on, or do a squish every time a new expansion comes out, and boom, problem solved. A squish means the guy earning tons of DKP still has an advantage going into newer expansions, just not a completely overwhelming one.
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Legacy dkp and a lack of decay is always a huge problem and can be addressed easily by gradual dkp earned increases or well by routine taxation to encourage spending. A good design can be to have it only start clipping over a certain threshold so that people are discouraged from hoarding. Meanwhile, if your guild leadership is scared of confrontation (stereotype beta or whatever) that's a problem too.
 
Cupcaek

Cupcaek

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Rajaah said:
Pretty much. In OGC there was always kind of an unspoken honor system where most people wouldn't bid each other up. Probably 95% of the time that I went in on a weapon and someone started to bid it up, they stop and delete their bids. Stuff like that. Items that are clearly for a specific class usually they won't bid each other up on past a low level.

Warriors have to spend more DKP than anybody, to the point that it's one class I'm alright with meriting armor to without bidding, maybe even without DKP under some circumstances. Like going into SoF, boss damage ramps way the hell up in Meldrath's Mansion and Crystallos, and on a fast-moving progression server warrior gear can be an issue if only one or two are geared enough for the boss damage. If the warriors can't tank Tactical Prototype, you ain't getting shit for everyone else lootwise.
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Why do warriors have to spend more DKP than anyone? Do they have more slots than other classes?
 
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Mrniceguy

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Plate is way more expensive in early era EQ. Warriors also need to be well geared compared to most other classes, a bard for example needs just enough gear to survive AoEs to be useful to the raid. Warriors don't have that luxury. If that wasn't enough they typically have the most expensive weapons outside of monks.
 
Cupcaek

Cupcaek

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Early era, Dagas no one but warriors going for, kunark epics free, velious we get to BoC, again only warriors are really bidding on that.
Classic/kunark is mostly class based gear so again no need for higher prices. Velious we shift away from that, outside of doze items the warrior loot is just for warriors and the occasional SK. Compared to casters that have necros, mages, wizards, clerics all basically going for the same items.
Only reason warriors would pay more is because they are stupid and can’t work with other members of their class.
 
Zaide

Zaide

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Cupcaek said:
Early era, Dagas no one but warriors going for, kunark epics free, velious we get to BoC, again only warriors are really bidding on that.
Classic/kunark is mostly class based gear so again no need for higher prices. Velious we shift away from that, outside of doze items the warrior loot is just for warriors and the occasional SK. Compared to casters that have necros, mages, wizards, clerics all basically going for the same items.
Only reason warriors would pay more is because they are stupid and can’t work with other members of their class.
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Guilds have a strong incentive to get Warriors geared up ahead of any other class. For the most part being bis on any other class is irrelevant but the difference each expansion from PoP onward between a Warrior who is bis and a Warrior who is in last expansions bis is massive. It can dictate how many splits you can do and thus how much loot you can get.
 
Cupcaek

Cupcaek

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Zaide said:
Guilds have a strong incentive to get Warriors geared up ahead of any other class. For the most part being bis on any other class is irrelevant but the difference each expansion from PoP onward between a Warrior who is bis and a Warrior who is in last expansions bis is massive. It can dictate how many splits you can do and thus how much loot you can get.
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I don't dispute that fact at all. Im just saying there is no reason for warrior gear to be more expensive than any other classes.
 
Cukernaut

Cukernaut

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If your really autistic sks are super gear dependent, perhaps more so than any other class
 
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Mrniceguy

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Cupcaek said:
Early era, Dagas no one but warriors going for, kunark epics free, velious we get to BoC, again only warriors are really bidding on that.
Classic/kunark is mostly class based gear so again no need for higher prices. Velious we shift away from that, outside of doze items the warrior loot is just for warriors and the occasional SK. Compared to casters that have necros, mages, wizards, clerics all basically going for the same items.
Only reason warriors would pay more is because they are stupid and can’t work with other members of their class.
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I'm talking about SoV to like OoW. Gear doesn't really matter in Classic and Kunark.

If a guild is looking to split content a healthy 72 man raid roster is gonna have like 8 warriors, 10 bards, 12 clerics, 6 knights. That's half your raid as plate classes.
Reason why Warrior weapons are expensive is because you have more of them then any other melee class besides monks. It's not uncommon for a guild to have 10 Warriors and 2 Rogues in Luclin. It makes the demand for Bloodfrenzy much higher then the Rogue weapon. You'll rarely see enough Bloodfrenzys, Rogue weapons typically start rotting a few weeks in.

It has nothing with them being stupid and everything to do with typical class makeup of the raid. It becomes less of an issue later on with things like GoD goat armor and Anguish molds being for every class.
 
Arbitrary

Arbitrary

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Recruiting SKs would be like recruiting raccoons or stray cats. No need to go through the hassle when all you need to do is leave a little food outside.
 
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Rajaah

Rajaah

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SHM or ENC or NEC LFG, guess I'm in for launch after all if there are any groups left with room. I'll play whichever, not actually set on anything.

Edit: Got scooped up
 
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Cukernaut

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Arbitrary said:
Recruiting SKs would be like recruiting raccoons or stray cats. No need to go through the hassle when all you need to do is leave a little food outside.
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Using invis and then getting to guild hall
 

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Bruuce

Bruuce

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Rajaah said:
SHM or ENC or NEC LFG, guess I'm in for launch after all if there are any groups left with room. I'll play whichever, not actually set on anything.

Edit: Got scooped up
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That better be my group youre talking about who scooped you up
 
yerm

yerm

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Warriors needing more gear or needing their gear sooner isn't in any way the same thing as warriors having more expensive gear. ANYONE who you insisted needed to get a whole bunch of the top items first in line would need to dump their points to do it. Imo the worst instance of this is typically velious and maybe luclin with clerics, rather than tanks, as guilds have giant piles of these and even the alts need some shit so they can hold up in a ch chain.

A decent solution could be to just tell anyone without top notch playtime they cannot be a tank, and not have a bunch of shit like sks leeching tank gear.
 
Cukernaut

Cukernaut

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I really wish I could come play the server launch unfortunately life won’t allow me to

i hope you all have a blast on it
 
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