Furry
WoW Office
- 19,546
- 24,693
yes, and hes always been like that. His mic was broken if you listen to the recording, so sounds were off.
EVE Online
- Thread starter Eonan
- Start date
Decided to give EVE another try, last one was a few years ago before they had any of these tutorials. Must say that I am impressed with the way they have changed the beginner experience, I found it much easier to navigate and learn the basics of the game. It will satisfy the MMO itch for now.
Furry
WoW Office
- 19,546
- 24,693
yea they've added tons of tutorials and really simplified noob experience. It surprised me they fought removing learning skills so long.
Imo if they just added like a one time use SP capsul or something for noobs to apply when they finish their tutorials and it'd be perfect.
Imo if they just added like a one time use SP capsul or something for noobs to apply when they finish their tutorials and it'd be perfect.
Dashivax
N00b
- 114
- 3
So I started playing again, fired up my 3 accounts that I haven't played since 2007. Been playing for about a week now getting acquainted with all the changes and re-bookmarking 25+ info sites that I need to check constantly.
I'm looking to join a small group based out of W-space. My 3 characters are around 20mil sp each, and focused on different things. Two combat characters and one with a lot of points in industry/science that I use for exploring wormholes currently. Been messing around in some C2 and C3s and now I want to get more serious.
If any groups here are recruiting let me know. I'm not a total noob but there is a lot I need to relearn.
My main character's name is Nednezzar.
I'm looking to join a small group based out of W-space. My 3 characters are around 20mil sp each, and focused on different things. Two combat characters and one with a lot of points in industry/science that I use for exploring wormholes currently. Been messing around in some C2 and C3s and now I want to get more serious.
If any groups here are recruiting let me know. I'm not a total noob but there is a lot I need to relearn.
My main character's name is Nednezzar.
We (CFC) stomped them. Started over the past few days where we took down all the poses they had in system and towered every single moon ourselves, so they had nowhere safe to go in system. Then today we had people logging in and undocking early all day to avoid the normal lag that happens when you have a lot of people showing up. Eventually we had over 2300 people in our staging system, before we started to roll out.
We initially formed 5 megathron fleets not knowing how many would turn up, but by the time we left it was up to 7, and eventually there were 9 in addition to a couple others. We got into system first, set up on the station with about an hour left on its timer and formed ahuge ball of dudes.
TEST and co finally bridge in a little after it came out of reinforced with 1600 dudes of their own; I think local topped out around 4063. Another n3 fleet couldn't get into system despite CCP insistence that there's no numbers cap, so they went to our staging system and got bombed by a multiboxer.
Battle was joined on the station and it was 10% tidi with tons of module lag on top of that, but I think full DC's were extremely rare and almost nobody blackscreened, so props to CCP for that I guess. The battle went about as you'd expect with the different fleet comps. After 3 hours the last fleet that got left behind in our staging system got bored and finally decided to come in, so we dropped 175 dreads and 75 carriers on them. TEST started to retreat, changed their minds and came back in for 1 final death charge, taking a dread down with them.
After the battle, TEST announced that they're pretty much giving up on defending Fountain, attempting to regroup/reorganize and then defend delve against what they feel is an inevitable extension of the invasion. Personally I think we're likely to leave them there, because with IRC dead we need somebody on our borders to take fleets out and farm.
Kill Report
We initially formed 5 megathron fleets not knowing how many would turn up, but by the time we left it was up to 7, and eventually there were 9 in addition to a couple others. We got into system first, set up on the station with about an hour left on its timer and formed ahuge ball of dudes.
TEST and co finally bridge in a little after it came out of reinforced with 1600 dudes of their own; I think local topped out around 4063. Another n3 fleet couldn't get into system despite CCP insistence that there's no numbers cap, so they went to our staging system and got bombed by a multiboxer.
Battle was joined on the station and it was 10% tidi with tons of module lag on top of that, but I think full DC's were extremely rare and almost nobody blackscreened, so props to CCP for that I guess. The battle went about as you'd expect with the different fleet comps. After 3 hours the last fleet that got left behind in our staging system got bored and finally decided to come in, so we dropped 175 dreads and 75 carriers on them. TEST started to retreat, changed their minds and came back in for 1 final death charge, taking a dread down with them.
After the battle, TEST announced that they're pretty much giving up on defending Fountain, attempting to regroup/reorganize and then defend delve against what they feel is an inevitable extension of the invasion. Personally I think we're likely to leave them there, because with IRC dead we need somebody on our borders to take fleets out and farm.
Kill Report
Woolygimp
Bronze Knight of the Realm
- 1,614
- 322
I have an account I haven't touched in three years with 4.6 million SP. Almost all of those SPs were invested in flying a PvE/PvP Rokh with a heavy tank. Now I'm clueless again and I'm not sure what skills to raise.
Can someone give me some pointers in which skills I need to cap out to be very effective in either PvP or PvE w/ the Rokh now? I have Caldari Battleships to V. I'm almost getting Evasive Maneuvering to V so I could tech into interceptors should I feel necessary. (is this a good idea? Can you gain good ISK with interceptors in PvE?)
I really don't know what skills to cap out now. I think my old layout was blasters & very heavy tank for short range punishment but I honestly am back to square 1 with this game. I do know that I wasn't invested heavily in missiles, which is the norm for Caldari.
(DRONES)
Scout Drone Operation - V
Drones x1 - V
All other drone skills are three or lower.
ELECTRONICS
less than 50,000 points invested, all are 3 or lower.
ENGINEERING
750,000 points invested
Many skills are level IV.
Have Engineering - V.
GUNNERY
1,200,000 points invested.
Gunnery, Motion Prediction, Small Hybrid Turret are all V.
Rest are 3 or lower, except weapon upgrades at IV.
INDUSTRY
250 points invested.
Almost nothing here.
MECHANICS
27,000 points invested.
Everything III or lower.
MISSILES
540,000 invested.
Missile Bombardment - V
Everything else III or lower.
NAVIGATION
Navigation IV and Afterburners IV.
Everything else III or lower.
SPACESHIP COMMAND
Caldari Battleship IV, Frigate V, Spaceship Command IV, Caldari Cruiser IV.
SCIENCE
Cybernetics IV, Everything else III or lower.
Basically, I want to be viable as soon as possible. And I want to fly interceptors in addition to Battleships (vastly prefer Rokhs). What skills do I need to raise pronto? And how have the changes changed the role of Rokhs?
Can someone give me some pointers in which skills I need to cap out to be very effective in either PvP or PvE w/ the Rokh now? I have Caldari Battleships to V. I'm almost getting Evasive Maneuvering to V so I could tech into interceptors should I feel necessary. (is this a good idea? Can you gain good ISK with interceptors in PvE?)
I really don't know what skills to cap out now. I think my old layout was blasters & very heavy tank for short range punishment but I honestly am back to square 1 with this game. I do know that I wasn't invested heavily in missiles, which is the norm for Caldari.
(DRONES)
Scout Drone Operation - V
Drones x1 - V
All other drone skills are three or lower.
ELECTRONICS
less than 50,000 points invested, all are 3 or lower.
ENGINEERING
750,000 points invested
Many skills are level IV.
Have Engineering - V.
GUNNERY
1,200,000 points invested.
Gunnery, Motion Prediction, Small Hybrid Turret are all V.
Rest are 3 or lower, except weapon upgrades at IV.
INDUSTRY
250 points invested.
Almost nothing here.
MECHANICS
27,000 points invested.
Everything III or lower.
MISSILES
540,000 invested.
Missile Bombardment - V
Everything else III or lower.
NAVIGATION
Navigation IV and Afterburners IV.
Everything else III or lower.
SPACESHIP COMMAND
Caldari Battleship IV, Frigate V, Spaceship Command IV, Caldari Cruiser IV.
SCIENCE
Cybernetics IV, Everything else III or lower.
Basically, I want to be viable as soon as possible. And I want to fly interceptors in addition to Battleships (vastly prefer Rokhs). What skills do I need to raise pronto? And how have the changes changed the role of Rokhs?
- 3,114
- 2,715
The rokh was a standard fleet bs for the last several years now. It's starting to fall out of favor with tiericide to battleships in Odyssey but it's still good, just other ships or atleast their roles are "new" and being explored.
I'm not the one to ask about PVE in Eve Online so I won't even comment on that aspect. for PVP it really depends on what you are going to be doing? How you fit (thus what skills you need) vary greatly from solo/small group 1-3 ships vs small gang 5-15 ships vs 20-30 ships vs etc etc.
The more people in your fleet the less your sp matter, as long as you can fit the modules to meet the "doctrine" of the fleet being ran, 5-10% more anything is basically meaningless. This is especially true in 0.0 fleets that number over 100 members.
I will list out skills you need in alphabetical order, but the priority is up to you based on what kind of PVP you are going to be doing.
Drones:
Rokh's have 50m3 drone bay meaning they can fit a flight of 5 mediums or 2 flights of 5 lights. You could fit 2 Heavies or 2 Sentries but this is rather pointless so you can ignore Heavy Drone and Sentry Drone Interfacing Skills until/unless you cross train for another race that focuses more on drones and gains access to a true drone boat. In fact as caldari you don't really need to worry too much about putting time into drone skills. The only must have skill here is Electronic Warfare Drone interfacing as it allows you to use ECM Drones (the skill itself adds 3k to your drone control range per level, level 1 unlocks light ecm, level 2 unlocks medium, level 3 unlocks heavies, which you wouldn't use). Get this skill atleast to 1 to use 5x EC-300s., higher gives you more control range so there's nothing wrong with training it higher.
skills you can train if you have time:
Combat Drone Operation = 5% dmg bonus per level to Light and Medium (the kind of drones you will use)
Drone Interfacing = 20% dmg per level to all drones (best dps upgrade for drones)
Other support skills like Drone navigation, durability, sharpshooting you can train to whatever as you feel they warrant. Get Minmatar Drone Spec so you can use T2 Warriors, and Gallente Drone Spec so you can use T2 hammerheads.
Electronics:
If you do not have the "Electronics" skill to V, your focus should be here first, unless you have no problem fitting out your ship. Caldari are shields and shields are CPU limited. Electronics gives you CPU. There's more Shield oriented skills in the Engineering tree you'll want to look at as well.
Skills that aren't super important in PVE but are in PVP:
Cloaking
Cyno
Grav sensor comp
LR Targetting
Targeting
Propulsion Jamming
Sig Analysis
Engineering: you seem to be fine for now here
Gunnery:
Weapon Upgrades V and Advanced Weapon Upgrades V. Well atleast to IV, for now.
All support skills to V. You have Motion Prediction, get Rapid Firing, Sharp Shooter, and Surgical Strike to V as well. controlled bursts and trajectory analysis IV is good enough for now. Then work on T2 Large Guns.
Mechanics:
Mechanics and Hull Upgrades V is good I guess, no rush for a Shield tanker though (5% Hull and Armor hp per level)
Missiles:
If you want to stay Caldari you can spend time training missiles. But if you only wanna fly the Caldari Gunships then you don't need to. They have gun using ships in practically every category, not always the best ship of their line up, but it's an option.
Navigation:
If you wanna fly interceptors then you'll want to get a lot of these skills to V. Their role in combat is all about movement and mobility getting to targets (and surviving/outrunning their defenses) and not about their damage.
I'm not the one to ask about PVE in Eve Online so I won't even comment on that aspect. for PVP it really depends on what you are going to be doing? How you fit (thus what skills you need) vary greatly from solo/small group 1-3 ships vs small gang 5-15 ships vs 20-30 ships vs etc etc.
The more people in your fleet the less your sp matter, as long as you can fit the modules to meet the "doctrine" of the fleet being ran, 5-10% more anything is basically meaningless. This is especially true in 0.0 fleets that number over 100 members.
I will list out skills you need in alphabetical order, but the priority is up to you based on what kind of PVP you are going to be doing.
Drones:
Rokh's have 50m3 drone bay meaning they can fit a flight of 5 mediums or 2 flights of 5 lights. You could fit 2 Heavies or 2 Sentries but this is rather pointless so you can ignore Heavy Drone and Sentry Drone Interfacing Skills until/unless you cross train for another race that focuses more on drones and gains access to a true drone boat. In fact as caldari you don't really need to worry too much about putting time into drone skills. The only must have skill here is Electronic Warfare Drone interfacing as it allows you to use ECM Drones (the skill itself adds 3k to your drone control range per level, level 1 unlocks light ecm, level 2 unlocks medium, level 3 unlocks heavies, which you wouldn't use). Get this skill atleast to 1 to use 5x EC-300s., higher gives you more control range so there's nothing wrong with training it higher.
skills you can train if you have time:
Combat Drone Operation = 5% dmg bonus per level to Light and Medium (the kind of drones you will use)
Drone Interfacing = 20% dmg per level to all drones (best dps upgrade for drones)
Other support skills like Drone navigation, durability, sharpshooting you can train to whatever as you feel they warrant. Get Minmatar Drone Spec so you can use T2 Warriors, and Gallente Drone Spec so you can use T2 hammerheads.
Electronics:
If you do not have the "Electronics" skill to V, your focus should be here first, unless you have no problem fitting out your ship. Caldari are shields and shields are CPU limited. Electronics gives you CPU. There's more Shield oriented skills in the Engineering tree you'll want to look at as well.
Skills that aren't super important in PVE but are in PVP:
Cloaking
Cyno
Grav sensor comp
LR Targetting
Targeting
Propulsion Jamming
Sig Analysis
Engineering: you seem to be fine for now here
Gunnery:
Weapon Upgrades V and Advanced Weapon Upgrades V. Well atleast to IV, for now.
All support skills to V. You have Motion Prediction, get Rapid Firing, Sharp Shooter, and Surgical Strike to V as well. controlled bursts and trajectory analysis IV is good enough for now. Then work on T2 Large Guns.
Mechanics:
Mechanics and Hull Upgrades V is good I guess, no rush for a Shield tanker though (5% Hull and Armor hp per level)
Missiles:
If you want to stay Caldari you can spend time training missiles. But if you only wanna fly the Caldari Gunships then you don't need to. They have gun using ships in practically every category, not always the best ship of their line up, but it's an option.
Navigation:
If you wanna fly interceptors then you'll want to get a lot of these skills to V. Their role in combat is all about movement and mobility getting to targets (and surviving/outrunning their defenses) and not about their damage.
Do we have any hardcore EVE players around still? I'm looking for someone to report on EVE for junkiesnation.com. Like a few updates a month (2-4?) on the current trends. And maybe when a huge battle is currently going in real time (i think there was a huge goon fight the other week right?) tossing up a link to a stream and a quick paragraph on what's up.
Anyone interested? Email:[email protected]/* <
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Anyone interested? Email:[email protected]/* <![CDATA[ */!function(t,e,r,n,c,a,p){try{t=document.currentScript||function(){for(t=document.getElementsByTagName('script'),e=t.length;e--
if(t[e].getAttribute('data-cfhash'))return t[e]}();if(t&&(c=t.previousSibling)){p=t.parentNode;if(a=c.getAttribute('data-cfemail')){for(e='',r='0x'+a.substr(0,2)|0,n=2;a.length-n;n+=2)e+='%'+('0'+('0x'+a.substr(n,2)^r).toString(16)).slice(-2);p.replaceChild(document.createTextNode(decodeURIComponent(e)),c)}p.removeChild(t)}}catch(u){}}()/* ]]> */So, I don't usually post relevant shit here, but I figured I'm due for a post about the actual game instead of just witty one-liners.
The other day Flammenwerfer from the FOH ingame channel joined SSAL, the corporation that I've been in for months. Vuudu (Chinaman889 here) and a friend of his actually run the corp and established the wormhole that I live in. They maintain the corp in a C1 wormhole and I run the C4 that they used to inhabit. They've moved on to bigger and better holes, but for a number of reasons, I've chosen to stay where I am.
My fuel situation in the C4 had grown quite dire from a combination of work and a lack of interest in rolling wormholes. I provide fuel for 2 towers, but large. One is a Domination tower and gets the faction fuel use bonus, but the other is a regular Minmatar large. I'd been watching for a K162 for a few weeks, but the lack of grooming on the system left me with 20 sigs to eliminate each day, and I just hadn't been bothering scanning after downtime. Most corps this sort of thing isn't as much of an issue because there are other folks involved, but one-man shows can be a bit different.
So, it all comes to a head last Sunday. The previous weekend I'd rolled for 5 hours without getting a single decent connection. The wormhole that I live in is a C4 with a static C5 wormhole. This means I will always have a connection to a C5. If I collapse the connection I have, a new one will spawn connecting to a new C5. Normally when I do logistics I prefer to wait for someone in a C2/C3 to connect to me from a hole with a hisec hole already in it. This makes things much quicker since there are less jumps involved. But in an emergency, the C5 static can be rolled and when I want to do logistics, I look for a C5 with a C3 static that I can roll looking for hisec statics.
I wasn't very hopeful Sunday. I was down to four days of fuel, and during the week I'm tired enough that the prospect of spending 4+ hours just to get a connection, then 2 hours hauling fuel is a killer. So I decided that it was now, or never. Flamm had joined corp and offered to help, so throwing him in a spare covops pilot I had, we started out. The first task is to secure the C4. Earlier in the day I'd already eliminated all the signatures in the C4 and probed down the wormhole, so all I needed to do was fleet up and start rolling holes. At the start of the night, my forces inside the hole consisted of 12 characters. 2 pilots in Covops, 5 in battleships, 2 in HIC's, and three useless characters just sitting there looking pretty.
The existing static was a C5-C5, and we immediately started collapsing. The first stumble for the night was losing one of my BS's to bad math. After fuming for a few minutes, self destructing, and grousing over an out of date clone, we went back to it. We spent two hours rolling holes in the C4 before we finally found a deserted C5 with a C3 static. The hole had residents, but they were a 19 man corp with no one online when we started. We quickly discovered the static and a second K162 in system. The K162 was a second C5, and I immediately put my four remaining battleships through once to mass it. That was when we discovered that the hole was hot.
The C5 on the other side was busy and we saw two or three different WH PvP groups pop in and leave over the course of an hour and a half. Even while hostiles were popping in and out of the C5 K162, I pressed on ahead rolling the C3 static searching for one with a hisec static, while watching the C5 closely. On the first C3 wormhole, math struck again, and I lost a BS on the other side to a non-crit hole, bringing me down to three closer battleships. Eventually we managed to close the C5 K162, and we relaxed a little bit until we got a new sig. A wandering lowsec static spawned in the C5 and scared the balls off of both of us, but we closed that off too, once we were sure we weren't going to bring anything in through it. It took an hour of rolling C3's, but we finally got one with a hisec static. About this time one of the C5 residents logged on in a covops and started poking around the chain, but we were far too committed and had eyes on their PoS and all the holes.
With luck, the hisec that we got was 4 jumps from Jita. We hauled the initial load of 460km3 of fuel to a station and I started moving it while Flamm flew his characters from half way across hisec space over. Through all this he maintained eyes on just about everything with me. Once his characters were safely in the wormhole, we decided to make the most of the proximity to Jita and picked up another 460km3 of fuel, and hauled that. The operation from start to finish took about 6.5 hours, and by the end, I had no desire at all to look at EVE. I was so jumpy the entire time the C5 K162 was around because of the number of corps on the other side of it.
There's not really any point to this, except to illustrate the difficulty in logistics for some wormholes. In K-Space, it's easy to just grab a jump freighter, or even a regular freighter and ninja your way wherever you're going. Each trip with fuel was Hisec->C3->C5->C4, and then back. At any point, the residents of either hole could have logged in and scuttled the whole thing, ruining 6 hours of planning.
The other day Flammenwerfer from the FOH ingame channel joined SSAL, the corporation that I've been in for months. Vuudu (Chinaman889 here) and a friend of his actually run the corp and established the wormhole that I live in. They maintain the corp in a C1 wormhole and I run the C4 that they used to inhabit. They've moved on to bigger and better holes, but for a number of reasons, I've chosen to stay where I am.
My fuel situation in the C4 had grown quite dire from a combination of work and a lack of interest in rolling wormholes. I provide fuel for 2 towers, but large. One is a Domination tower and gets the faction fuel use bonus, but the other is a regular Minmatar large. I'd been watching for a K162 for a few weeks, but the lack of grooming on the system left me with 20 sigs to eliminate each day, and I just hadn't been bothering scanning after downtime. Most corps this sort of thing isn't as much of an issue because there are other folks involved, but one-man shows can be a bit different.
So, it all comes to a head last Sunday. The previous weekend I'd rolled for 5 hours without getting a single decent connection. The wormhole that I live in is a C4 with a static C5 wormhole. This means I will always have a connection to a C5. If I collapse the connection I have, a new one will spawn connecting to a new C5. Normally when I do logistics I prefer to wait for someone in a C2/C3 to connect to me from a hole with a hisec hole already in it. This makes things much quicker since there are less jumps involved. But in an emergency, the C5 static can be rolled and when I want to do logistics, I look for a C5 with a C3 static that I can roll looking for hisec statics.
I wasn't very hopeful Sunday. I was down to four days of fuel, and during the week I'm tired enough that the prospect of spending 4+ hours just to get a connection, then 2 hours hauling fuel is a killer. So I decided that it was now, or never. Flamm had joined corp and offered to help, so throwing him in a spare covops pilot I had, we started out. The first task is to secure the C4. Earlier in the day I'd already eliminated all the signatures in the C4 and probed down the wormhole, so all I needed to do was fleet up and start rolling holes. At the start of the night, my forces inside the hole consisted of 12 characters. 2 pilots in Covops, 5 in battleships, 2 in HIC's, and three useless characters just sitting there looking pretty.
The existing static was a C5-C5, and we immediately started collapsing. The first stumble for the night was losing one of my BS's to bad math. After fuming for a few minutes, self destructing, and grousing over an out of date clone, we went back to it. We spent two hours rolling holes in the C4 before we finally found a deserted C5 with a C3 static. The hole had residents, but they were a 19 man corp with no one online when we started. We quickly discovered the static and a second K162 in system. The K162 was a second C5, and I immediately put my four remaining battleships through once to mass it. That was when we discovered that the hole was hot.
The C5 on the other side was busy and we saw two or three different WH PvP groups pop in and leave over the course of an hour and a half. Even while hostiles were popping in and out of the C5 K162, I pressed on ahead rolling the C3 static searching for one with a hisec static, while watching the C5 closely. On the first C3 wormhole, math struck again, and I lost a BS on the other side to a non-crit hole, bringing me down to three closer battleships. Eventually we managed to close the C5 K162, and we relaxed a little bit until we got a new sig. A wandering lowsec static spawned in the C5 and scared the balls off of both of us, but we closed that off too, once we were sure we weren't going to bring anything in through it. It took an hour of rolling C3's, but we finally got one with a hisec static. About this time one of the C5 residents logged on in a covops and started poking around the chain, but we were far too committed and had eyes on their PoS and all the holes.
With luck, the hisec that we got was 4 jumps from Jita. We hauled the initial load of 460km3 of fuel to a station and I started moving it while Flamm flew his characters from half way across hisec space over. Through all this he maintained eyes on just about everything with me. Once his characters were safely in the wormhole, we decided to make the most of the proximity to Jita and picked up another 460km3 of fuel, and hauled that. The operation from start to finish took about 6.5 hours, and by the end, I had no desire at all to look at EVE. I was so jumpy the entire time the C5 K162 was around because of the number of corps on the other side of it.
There's not really any point to this, except to illustrate the difficulty in logistics for some wormholes. In K-Space, it's easy to just grab a jump freighter, or even a regular freighter and ninja your way wherever you're going. Each trip with fuel was Hisec->C3->C5->C4, and then back. At any point, the residents of either hole could have logged in and scuttled the whole thing, ruining 6 hours of planning.
No, the money is way less than moon goo, sadly, though noone is going to be dropping dreads on me to take out my towers either. Sleeper sites are good isk/h, the PvP in WH's is mostly small/med gangs (which doesn't concern me most of the time), and a lot of the time you have the option to just chill. Fuel runs can be stressful as hell though, especially when things get critical. It was a good introduction for Flamm of just how harsh life in wormholes can be. Everyone should experience that strain at least once. He was pretty cheerful through the hole thing, but the process wears on you, and by 1AM CST (6 hour mark), anyone listening could easily tell how worn out we were getting.
- 3,114
- 2,715
You wormhole guys are a totally different breed.
In low sec It's hard enough for most of our guys to handle double titan bridging. "yeah dude, right click and bridge, ok?" "Now approach the other titan. what are you doing? why are you warping just approach the next pos and repeat..." Just running a freighter to jita and back once is more logistics than I care to do in a givenmonthand that's just a dozen high sec jumps and a quick gate scout into low sec.
In low sec It's hard enough for most of our guys to handle double titan bridging. "yeah dude, right click and bridge, ok?" "Now approach the other titan. what are you doing? why are you warping just approach the next pos and repeat..." Just running a freighter to jita and back once is more logistics than I care to do in a givenmonthand that's just a dozen high sec jumps and a quick gate scout into low sec.