Final Fantasy Tactics - The Ivalice Chronicles

Voyce

Shit Lord Supreme
<Donor>
10,536
44,972
They definitely did not make tactician hard enough, I’m literally going into story battles with one generic carrying the rest of the party while I skill them up in rando classes that I’m not putting jp in

haven’t even attempted to unlock Calculator either, I guess I could just completely ignore Ninja, but I feel like Ninja is a staple to the game, not my fault they have 2 or 3 op’d setups

Mustadio is probably my favorite unique character, but pretty sure generic chemist/knight has significantly greater utility
 
Last edited:

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Gold Donor>
15,596
34,700
I got some real use out of Mustadio this playthrough, which I don't think I ever did before. Arm Shot and Leg Shot are really good, last a while with high effectiveness. Throw in the ability to permakill undead and he's great for controlling battles.

The issue that sets him back is that there is a short window of having his shot abilities where they are better than alternatives and guns are basically dogshit in this version. If your healing strat is centered around Chemist, then you can get more mileage out of him, but realistically nailing an enemy with Chicken or Toad is more effective for crowd control. And most main enemies are flat immune to his shot skills. And Seal Evil is pretty situational, especially when you can just poach anything to get it off the map entirely. Finally, and most egregiously, his stat growth for his personal class is pretty dogshit.

As Gav said, he is well balanced without being game breaking, but he is not in the same weight class as the big four. He is more comparable to Cloud, being situationally good. And I do routinely make use of him when I play the game. I just either use him as a chemist or have Beowolf take over his role in the end game, if I am not just playing him like I would a generic character.
 

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Gold Donor>
15,596
34,700
They definitely did not make tactician hard enough, I’m literally going into story battles with one generic carrying the rest of the party while I skill them up in rando classes that I’m not putting jp in

haven’t even attempted to unlock Calculator either, I guess I could just completely ignore Ninja, but I feel like Ninja is a staple to the game, not my fault they have 2 or 3 op’d setups

Mustadio is probably my favorite unique character, but pretty sure generic chemist/knight has significantly greater utility

Yeah the Ninja class design has always been terrible in this game, from the sense that you basically only ever want to get dual wield because while leveling in it pumps attack and speed, your defenses and hit points really take a dump if you spend any amount of time in the class. Calculators are pretty much broken of course, but having one for utility buffs and Arises on oopsies can be handy and does not really break the game significantly, which is really all I ever use math magic for in my last few runs of this game. It is when you are doing shit like putting Holy Absorb on everyone and playing as a black mage and Holy Entire Map with it that it completely breaks the game for good.

I will say Mustadio got hurt more than anyone, in terms of story, by losing the WOTLK content. Plus the guns were a lot stronger in that version. In the core game without the extra story bits, he has even less story to him than the Twins and little to no in battle fluff dialogue past chapter two, especially compared to characters like Agrias or Melieadoule. I wish they had kept the story beats, at least, from that version (along with Balthier).
 

Voyce

Shit Lord Supreme
<Donor>
10,536
44,972
It is when you are doing shit like putting Holy Absorb on everyone and playing as a black mage and Holy Entire Map with it that it completely breaks the game for good.
Problem is rationalizing why you wouldn't do this if you got that far into Calc, so I'm just avoiding it all together, by the 4th Act the game is going be trivial anyway, so maybe I'll consider it then

Ninja Speed and PA more than makes up for their other short comings, they can be across the map and one shotting (well...technically two shotting), enemies on the first turn, functionally they're no different than Elmdor's Assassins

They should have buffed armor too, to outclassed by clothes...of course that wouldn't make the game harder
 
Last edited:

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Gold Donor>
15,596
34,700
Problem is rationalizing why you wouldn't do this if you got that far into Calc, so I'm just avoiding it all together, by the 4th Act the game is going be trivial anyway, so maybe I'll consider it then

Ninja Speed and PA more than makes up for their other short comings, they can be across the map and one shotting (well...technically two shotting), enemies on the first turn, functionally they're no different than Elmdor's Assassins
Yeah I get that. I have gone in for the ability that divides the damage in half, because so much of the late game shit one shots anyone who is not a fully decked out plate user. But normally I avoid it entirely, because grinding mages up is boring as hell and you are going to do that if you want to benefit from math skill. Truth is that tanky characters with <insert unique ability involving sword here> are much sampler to play and way more forgiving than the mage angle. So the real question becomes, why bother with any mage classes at all after chapter one?
 

Voyce

Shit Lord Supreme
<Donor>
10,536
44,972
yup, the payoff is getting the mass genocide bomb, but the mass genocide bomb ends the fight in one turn

BM's are definitely more dangerous since WOTL though, make a chick BM and give the MA boost and boom
 

Rajaah

Honorable Member
<Gold Donor>
14,476
21,020
But its not like this game is terribly hard (outside a couple specific fights) even if you do not grind and optimize, of course. And this version seems to give out way too much XP.

Noticed that too. JP gain seems higher. Like I recall getting about 40 points per action with a decent class level and JP Up in the PS1 version, now it tops out at like 90 JP per action. Class has to be leveled though, so it won't be anywhere near that fast when first switching to a class.

"Big Four" = Orlandu, Reis, Ramza, Beowulf? I'd say throw in Meliadoul and you've got the best endgame party. In my latest run I did all of that except I brought Cloud instead of Beowulf just to finally get some use out of him (given how he was just bad in earlier versions).

Yeah she is on a whole other level than even Orlandu and its not very hard to get there. Gtind up Dual wield and make her a Monk and you are basically done. Only Monk Ramza was doing more damage than her when I got to the end and she had the most HP in the party as a nearly naked Monk. She loses those advantages to a degree in other classes, but if you are feeling bored she makes a great Steal character as well and Thief has the increased move on the way to Ninja anyhow.

Now I want to do a replay just to try playing around with Reis. Sounds like I could make her a teleporting super-monk like I usually do with Ramza lategame and have them conduct assassinations. (Would have helped a lot with Elidibs, since I had to have Ramza in Summoner for that which made the fight harder).

Is there a particular reason to go Monk w/ Dual Wield as opposed to Ninja w/ Brawler? Just that monk skills are better than Throw? (Edit: Just read further, sounds like Monk has much better stat gains than Ninja so that's probably why. I never paid attention to stat gains, never needed to, so I have no idea which classes are better than others. Sounds like Monk and Chemist are top of the heap for stat gains?)
 

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Gold Donor>
15,596
34,700
Teleporting is a reliable five move maneuver if you soft cap bravery on a character. The issue is that fly at the monk base move of four (or ignore height) is vastly cheaper and not prone to failure. Upping the cost to 3k was just silly. Plus you end up stuck in Time Mage for a bunch of level ups, which sucks stat wise. Dragoons are actually somewhat good and won't fuck you on stat gains and ignore height does most of what you want Teleport for anyhow. That assumes you are not bee lining to Bard/Dancer for turbo grinding of course, in which case just get flight before you dump those classes.

For me when I say the big four, I am specifically talking about Reis, Orlandu, Beowolf, and Agrias. Razma is a given and Meiadoul only falls behind a bit because she is mainly only important late game, when you are fighting human enemies with lots of weapons, though against any enemy with skills similar to Agrias or Orlandu, she is just plain god tier because you can completely neuter those guys with one weapon destroy manuever. Of course Orlaandu can do everything Agrias can do AND that, but Orlandu is super cheese. That being said, the silence AE and the line ability in Holy Sword are massively powerful at every point in the game, but particularly effective against most late game enemies, particularly since they do great damage even if you have less min maxed stats and don't need any real side skills to make effective. Beowolf really benefits from some key grinding and you absolutely want to get dual weild on Reis asap. Orlandu and Agrias start kicking ass right out of the gate.
 

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Gold Donor>
15,596
34,700
Is there a particular reason to go Monk w/ Dual Wield as opposed to Ninja w/ Brawler? Just that monk skills are better than Throw? (Edit: Just read further, sounds like Monk has much better stat gains than Ninja so that's probably why. I never paid attention to stat gains, never needed to, so I have no idea which classes are better than others. Sounds like Monk and Chemist are top of the heap for stat gains?)

Brawling damage is based on the character's bravery which can be soft capped up for anyone up to 97 as early as chapter two. The main issue with Ninjas is that their defense is dogshit and their hit points even worse. A character who levels up primarily as a Monk will have a lot of HP and do about the same damage, since the Attack power on the Ninja does not affect Brawler damage. The Monk is also going to be more resistant to magic status fuckovers as well. And of course the Martial Arts skill is probably the best all around utility skill in the entire game. Chakra alone should probably not exist in the game, but you have the long range Shock Wave and mid range Aura Blast that scale just like Brawling, as well as things like Revive and Purify in that toolbox. You also do not have to slot Autopotion to just have a chance to stay alive later in the game, as the computer will actively avoiding a 97 bravery Monk with First strike, as such a character reliably vaporizes anything dumb enough to attack it in close. Ninja is always stuck with that useless throw ability, in comparison and pretty much keels over if anyone looks in their direction.

But if you are in farm mode, you can even just slot Poach since a lot of enemies cannot handle a single punch (Razmonk and Reis will dole out 5-600 damage punches even around level 50 or so) so you can poach with complete impunity. Then for Lucavi who can actually take a couple hits like that, you slot in dual wield and vaporize them in one or two rounds with Fist of Death Reis. Or slot it in when the damage scaling gets to be excessive if playing on Hard. Its honestly rather ridiculous and puts even Orlandu to shame.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Rajaah

Honorable Member
<Gold Donor>
14,476
21,020
What would you guys say are the two or three best and worst classes (of the normal classes, not uniques)?

And which ones have the best/worst stat growths? This is something I didn't pay any attention to on the recent run, and went through about half the game with Ramza as a Ninja. No wonder he seemed weaker at the end than past playthroughs, I was usually a Monk for most of the game in those.

Personally I'd say Mime is probably the worst class. Always found it overrated in FF games in general, but in this game it seemed awful and mostly just repeated attacks at empty spaces...
 

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
32,447
94,264
If you're running around with three faith on everyone because you're still buttmad over getting dumped on by enemy casters when you were a kid than all the casters are really, really bad.
 

Voyce

Shit Lord Supreme
<Donor>
10,536
44,972
Mimes have some of the best stat growth of any generic, but yes they're not really worth the investment (deleveling and releveling is just overkill for this game's limited difficulty), if you pair them with Bards and Dancers, you can commit a lot of shenanigans.

On that note Bards/Dancers are slow, and their abilities are nearly entirely Stat agnostic, and are simply % based, but they can do some pretty cool shit, but there's a lot of other classes that would work as well and require less effort. I say that after just Mastering bard on Ramza, initially for move+3 but now I'm not sure if I'm gonna use it as my secondary or Iaido.

Regular Squire has pretty bad stats, but you get JP Boost, and in my opinion more importantly Focus, which you can just spam over and over for JP and +1 to Attack, e.g. my Generic Dragoon just hit a mob with brawler for 999 in Act 2, after JP grinding for a few minutes. Focus is in my opinion the real most OP'd ability in the game, since unlike other passive boost/jp ups you can get it in the first battle or two, and early on you'll have a lot of units that are just waiting for enemies to pull up for 1-2 turns and instead just them having their dick out waiting, you're passively skilling and beefing your PA

Geo, I pretty much never used in PS1 but they get solid PA and HP growth, and Attack boost, I plan on adding the Attack Boost to Agrias and my Chemist/Knight, their spells are MA which they don't have good growth in

Thief, Oracle/Mystic, Mediator/Orator - Are utility classes that have very valuable functionality, but in very limited circumstances, and aren't significant outside of that

Time Mage and Priest, aren't worth it in my opinion, unless you're adding them to your math skill. At 3k GP I'm not even sure Teleport is worth it, at least in the early game anymore.

Black Mage is a solid glass cannon with a female, and high faith (Magic Boost which is useful to Calculators post nerf). Summoner is supposed to be ok, but I'm not convinced given they're slow cast

Goons are Tanky, and have good attack but they're slow (if you want to skill them up, don't bother with any of the lower tier jumps just grab the highest Vert and Horiz), Ignore Height is pretty good for certain maps, you can use their jump as a secondary on Ninja, and equip flails to do good damage.

Samurai has poor MA stat growth, so is often ignored outside of Blade Grasp which is broken, but Ramza's Squire get's good MA growth so it's not bad to subclass for him.

Monks, Knights, and Chemists are superb especially since you get them so early

of the generics, I'd say the most unessential is Archer, they do have concentrate but you can get better Support Abilities as early, they're just a gate keeper

My opinion the second best job is Ninjas, yes their stat growth outside PA and Speed is bad, and their throw skill is middling, but they have innate Dual Wield, Stacked with Brawler they are capable of the most single target damage in the game, or just use sword, they are still going to probably kill most things with one double attack. They can be built to make it across the map and kill a unit on the first turn, they're an assassin for all intents and purposes (but better because you can't be immune to physical), and thus broken.

The best skill, not just generic skill, but best skill in the game (but only if used as secondary to a high MA job) is Calculator. They supposedly nerfed it in Tactician, but my understanding is not enough for it to matter, which is an indication of how broken, and which is why I avoided it, I tried playing WOTL on my phone years ago, and went hard in Mini/maxing and stopped progression at the Roof top fight. It's not that it was a a difficult fight, I could end the battle in one turn...I was trying to steal the Accessories that the Assassin's had, I don't think they were even one of a kind, I just wanted them early. Then I think I was messing around with deleveling Stat growth or something, and kinda just got bored of the grinding for the sake of grinding, for what was totally unnecessary overkill in the first place
 
Last edited:

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
32,447
94,264
For general purpose playing the game it's hard to beat a Dancer. You can get one very early with a bit of grinding, you only need one song and they can automatically win a lot of fights on their first action. Nameless/Forbidden Dance, turn two enemies in to frogs, the fight goes from a 7v5 to a 5v5, everything else is mopping up. Randomly silencing an enemy caster also occasionally happens, Sleep is brutal, Stop is a beating and Slow is a kick in the sack. Their stat growth is ass and they're female only so it's not all gravy but one makes everything a hell of a lot easier.
 

Voyce

Shit Lord Supreme
<Donor>
10,536
44,972
For general purpose playing the game it's hard to beat a Dancer. You can get one very early with a bit of grinding, you only need one song and they can automatically win a lot of fights on their first action. Nameless/Forbidden Dance, turn two enemies in to frogs, the fight goes from a 7v5 to a 5v5, everything else is mopping up. Randomly silencing an enemy caster also occasionally happens, Sleep is brutal, Stop is a beating and Slow is a kick in the sack. Their stat growth is ass and they're female only so it's not all gravy but one makes everything a hell of a lot easier.
Damn it, now you’re making me want to throw a dancer into the mix