Flu Outbreak

Rune_sl

shitlord
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0
I'm not against science, you should know that. I'm against science that leads to sketchy, overblown conclusions. Here, lets slow it down for you so you understand.

Flu virus mutates very quickly. Any argument on that? No?

Flu virus changes very drastically from year to year, and is basically a crap shoot as to which strains are going to be prevalent. Any argument on that? No?

Flu shot is a guess as to what strains are going to be prevalent this year. Any argument on that? No?

Flu doesn't pose a serious health risk to the vast vast vast vast vast majority of the population.

Flu shots effectiveness hovers around 50%, and may be significantly worse from year to year. '03-'04 vaccine didn't do fuck all for anyone. Documented fact.

There is an inherent risk in putting anything in your body.

Look, I fucking "get" vaccines, probably more than anyone else here. The MMR vaccine I received as a baby damned near fucking killed me. I was in the hospital for a long time and it wasn't clear I was gonna make it through. Unfortunately for you people, I did. Now there's a high probability that whatever did that to me wasn't the vaccine itself, but was instead a byproduct or a component of making said vaccine. That being said, there's no way I can risk ever getting another booster shot, which means the next time measles rears it's ugly head in this country (as a result of dipshits who believe Jenny McCarthy's bullshit), I am in serious fucking trouble. I understand completely the risks associated with very deadly disease and vaccinations. But if you want me to give a shit about a flu vaccine, you're gonna need to do a lot fucking better than 50% and it's gonna need to be alot more of a health risk to me to justify me trusting a pharmaceutical company injecting me with random bullshit again.

You act like the science on this is cut and dry and that this is a guaranteed benefit with no risk. I disagree with your assessment, and that in no way makes me a moron, no does it imply that you are one. I simply disagree with the risk and benefits provided by said vaccine at this time.
You're a supporter of science but your proof is a personal anecdote? What?

It fucking kills me to disagree with you and side with Etoille but jesus fucking christ dude, you're so wrong on this one.

I see where you're coming from with your general skepticism but while there's a lot of snake oil out there in big pharm, vaccines are all about the big picture. You almost died from the MMR shot, but hundreds of thousands of children would have died without that vaccine and did every year before that became a requirement.

Also, chaos, I don't know how old you are but know-it-all assholes philosophizing without a shred of evidence abounded well before the internet.
 

chaos

Buzzfeed Editor
17,324
4,839
I'm not against science, you should know that. I'm against science that leads to sketchy, overblown conclusions. Here, lets slow it down for you so you understand.

Flu virus mutates very quickly. Any argument on that? No?

Flu virus changes very drastically from year to year, and is basically a crap shoot as to which strains are going to be prevalent. Any argument on that? No?

Flu shot is a guess as to what strains are going to be prevalent this year. Any argument on that? No?

Flu doesn't pose a serious health risk to the vast vast vast vast vast majority of the population.

Flu shots effectiveness hovers around 50%, and may be significantly worse from year to year. '03-'04 vaccine didn't do fuck all for anyone. Documented fact.

There is an inherent risk in putting anything in your body.

Look, I fucking "get" vaccines, probably more than anyone else here. The MMR vaccine I received as a baby damned near fucking killed me. I was in the hospital for a long time and it wasn't clear I was gonna make it through. Unfortunately for you people, I did. Now there's a high probability that whatever did that to me wasn't the vaccine itself, but was instead a byproduct or a component of making said vaccine. That being said, there's no way I can risk ever getting another booster shot, which means the next time measles rears it's ugly head in this country (as a result of dipshits who believe Jenny McCarthy's bullshit), I am in serious fucking trouble. I understand completely the risks associated with very deadly disease and vaccinations. But if you want me to give a shit about a flu vaccine, you're gonna need to do a lot fucking better than 50% and it's gonna need to be alot more of a health risk to me to justify me trusting a pharmaceutical company injecting me with random bullshit again.

You act like the science on this is cut and dry and that this is a guaranteed benefit with no risk. I disagree with your assessment, and that in no way makes me a moron, no does it imply that you are one. I simply disagree with the risk and benefits provided by said vaccine at this time.
It's like you aren't even reading the stuff you are writing here.
 

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
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I had to get a Pneumonia vaccine once and I passed out. They had to put an EKG machine on me and thought I had a heart attack(I didn't). So trust me, I am an expert on vaccinations.
 

Cutlery

Kill All the White People
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This.

Getting flu shots (and others like whooping cough) as an adult doesn't necessarily mean they're for you; rather, for your loved ones: children and elderly. It's called herd immunity; stop being an ass and get your damn vaccines
Right, how the fuck did any of us grow up with our parents not getting flu shots? How did our grandparents ever survive those trying birthdays and holidays with us? Boy, I had almost forgot all of those miserable times when we were young and everyone was dying of the flu.

You're a supporter of science but your proof is a personal anecdote? What?

It fucking kills me to disagree with you and side with Etoille but jesus fucking christ dude, you're so wrong on this one.

I see where you're coming from with your general skepticism but while there's a lot of snake oil out there in big pharm, vaccines are all about the big picture. You almost died from the MMR shot, but hundreds of thousands of children would have died without that vaccine and did every year before that became a requirement.
A personal anecdote is my proof? No, it was a fucking story. Sorry for sharing. I understand it's hard to keep things like an argument and a related story about the possible dangers of said vaccinations straight, but I've already laid out my proof BEFORE the story.

You guys do understand that there's a big difference between a flu vaccine and an MMR or Polio or Smallpox vaccine, right? One of them could be given to every fucking person on the planet and there would STILL be people getting the flu, and the others have more or less completely eradicated diseases from developed nations. Just because they both have the word "vaccine" in them doesn't make them identical, nor do they deserve identical treatment.

Look, you guys railing on me for this are the same type of people who would say to Merlin "You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts." Which facts do you think I'm making up, or do you disagree with? The fact that at best it's 60% effective every year? The fact that 99.999% of the population doesn't die from the flu? Go ahead, explain to me what facts you think I'm not considering here. I've looked at the facts and I've decided it's not worth my time or the risk. So now people aren't entitled to their own opinion, they have to go along with yours? Come the fuck on.

We know for a fact that there are adverse side effects that appear with almost everything you put in your body. It's a fucking fact. Generally, the benefits outweigh the risk. You guys think I'm against the MMR vaccine because it almost killed me? Fuck no, I'm not. I personally am not getting another one, because I like living and the exact cause as to what exactly happened was never nailed down. But both my kids got them, and they'll get every single booster that they should, I'll just watch them closely after they do. My opposition is not to vaccines in general, my opposition is to a vaccine which provides marginal to no benefit and comes with risks. Baxter Healthcare recalled 300,000 doses last year due to "an excessive amount of adverse reactions." A shitload were recalled a few months ago because of particles floating around in them. I mean, come on guys. I know the herd mentality is strong, but think about this. Do you fucking know anyone who's died from the flu? I don't. Do you think 60% is a good percentage to shoot for? Let me remind you that's a failing grade in school.

Coincidentally for everyone who wants to tell me that my opinion is shit because I'm not a scientist, this was in the paper yesterday --

http://www.startribune.com/lifestyle...tml?page=1&c=y

TFA_sl said:
University of Minnesota scientist Michael Osterholm is even more blunt, calling the flu vaccine "overpromoted and overhyped."

Osterholm, a former Minnesota state epidemiologist, hastens to point out that he and his family still get flu shots. But his research suggests that, over time, the vaccine has worked on little more than half of adults under 65, and offered little if any protection to those most at risk -- the elderly.
Oh look, a scientist who's opinion shares almost my exact wording at the beginning of this thread. What now, Chaos? You gonna change your opinion because a scientist told you so? What about Aychamo? He's supposedly a doctor. Do you know anyone that takes what that asshole says seriously? It's only a matter of time until his next meltdown and he starts talking about your grandmother shitting herself and getting himself banned.

The flu shot is not a fucking smallpox vaccine. Smallpox is done and gone. The flu will still be around this year, and the year after, and the year after that one. And people will still get sick and die, because the vaccine doesn't work on the people who get sick and die from it. And the people it does work on? All it's doing for you is preventing you from running through your stockpiles of chicken noodle soup and sprite.

Call me when it prevents me from ever getting the flu again. That's when I'll give it the proper respect. Until then, it's overblown and overhyped shit.
 

Aychamo BanBan

<Banned>
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Oh look, a scientist who's opinion shares almost my exact wording at the beginning of this thread. What now, Chaos? You gonna change your opinion because a scientist told you so? What about Aychamo? He's supposedly a doctor. Do you know anyone that takes what that asshole says seriously? It's only a matter of time until his next meltdown and he starts talking about your grandmother shitting herself and getting himself bann
Hi, retard. Go back to your post that everyone is shitting on. You called the flu vaccine "snake oil" and said it doesn't do anything or prevent deaths, etc. Your post was fucking retarded. Now you are backtracking and trying to say it's not god's gift to medicine, and you're right, it's not. No one says that it is. It is, however, an important vaccination to receive on an annual basis, especially in high risk patients (elderly with multiple comorbidities, people with chronic pulmonary disease, etc). And part of the ways vaccinations work is herd immunity. When retards don't vaccinate their kids or themselves, they become carriers of disease and allow it to spread. Yes, the flu vaccine does not provide immunity to the influenza virus, because each years flu virus is formulated based on epidemiological data (it's not just a random guess, as you would write it.) Furthermore, yes, the influenza virus can mutate, but it doesn't just sit there and mutate constantly as you word it. As you already saw, influenza is responsible for tens of thousands of deaths annually, and it complicates and exacerbates multiple medical conditions which also results in death. Proof by media publication is retarded, on the same level as YouTube.

I don't know why you're so angry against one specific vaccine, but your information on it and your attitude towards it just makes you look like a ignorant child. And I appreciate how every time someone gets mad at me they put that I'm a doctor in "quotes". I don't go around saying "I'm a doctor, listen to me." But, because I am a licensed medical doctor (which I believe it's a felony to write that if you're not, so ...) I have an enormous knowledge base, and can comment intelligently on most medical topics.

Here's some data for you:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=12672859

BACKGROUND:

Upper respiratory tract illnesses have been associated with an increased risk of ischemic heart disease and stroke. During two influenza seasons, we assessed the influence of vaccination against influenza on the risk of hospitalization for heart disease and stroke, hospitalization for pneumonia and influenza, and death from all causes.
METHODS:

Cohorts of community-dwelling members of three large managed-care organizations who were at least 65 years old were studied during the 1998-1999 and 1999-2000 influenza seasons. Administrative and clinical data were used to evaluate outcomes, with multivariable logistic regression to control for base-line demographic and health characteristics of the subjects.
RESULTS:

There were 140,055 subjects in the 1998-1999 cohort and 146,328 in the 1999-2000 cohort, of which 55.5 percent and 59.7 percent, respectively, were immunized. At base line, vaccinated subjects were on average sicker, having higher rates of most coexisting conditions, outpatient care, and prior hospitalization for pneumonia than unvaccinated subjects. Unvaccinated subjects, however, were more likely to have been given a prior diagnosis of dementia or stroke. Vaccination against influenza was associated with a reduction in the risk of hospitalization for cardiac disease (reduction of 19 percent during both seasons [P<0.001]), cerebrovascular disease (reduction of 16 percent during the 1998-1999 season [P<0.018] and 23 percent during the 1999-2000 season [P<0.001]), and pneumonia or influenza (reduction of 32 percent during the 1998-1999 season [P<0.001] and 29 percent during the 1999-2000 season [P<0.001]) and a reduction in the risk of death from all causes (reduction of 48 percent during the 1998-1999 season [P<0.001] and 50 percent during the 1999-2000 season [P<0.001]). In analyses according to age, the presence or absence of major medical conditions at base line, and study site, the findings were consistent across all subgroups.
CONCLUSIONS:

In the elderly, vaccination against influenza is associated with reductions in the risk of hospitalization for heart disease, cerebrovascular disease, and pneumonia or influenza as well as the risk of death from all causes during influenza seasons. These findings highlight the benefits of vaccination and support efforts to increase the rates of vaccination among the elderly.
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Epidemiology of influenza
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Epidemiology of influenza
Author
Raphael Dolin, MD
Section Editor
Martin S Hirsch, MD
Deputy Editor
Anna R Thorner, MD
Disclosures
All topics are updated as new evidence becomes available and our peer review process is complete.
Literature review current through: Dec 2012. | This topic last updated: Oct 4, 2012.

INTRODUCTION - Influenza occurs in distinct outbreaks of varying extent every year. This epidemiologic pattern reflects the changing nature of the antigenic properties of influenza viruses, and their subsequent spread depends upon multiple factors, including transmissibility of the virus and the susceptibility of the population. Influenza A viruses, in particular, have a remarkable ability to undergo periodic changes in the antigenic characteristics of their envelope glycoproteins, the hemagglutinin and the neuraminidase.

Influenza hemagglutinin is a surface glycoprotein that binds to sialic acid residues on respiratory epithelial cell surface glycoproteins. This interaction is necessary for the initiation of infection. After viral replication, progeny virions are also bound to the host cell. Neuraminidase cleaves these links and liberates the new virions; it also counteracts hemagglutinin-mediated self-aggregation entrapment in respiratory secretions.

Among influenza A viruses that infect humans, three major subtypes of hemagglutinins (H1, H2, and H3) and two subtypes of neuraminidases (N1 and N2) have been described. Influenza B viruses have a lesser propensity for antigenic changes, and only antigenic drifts in the hemagglutinin have been described.

The epidemiology of influenza, including morbidity and mortality, will be reviewed here. The clinical manifestations, complications, diagnosis, prevention, and treatment of this infection are discussed separately; the epidemiology of pandemic H1N1 influenza ("swine influenza") and avian influenza are also presented elsewhere. (See "Clinical manifestations of seasonal influenza in adults" and "Antiviral drugs for the prevention and treatment of seasonal influenza in children" and "Seasonal influenza vaccination in adults" and "Diagnosis of seasonal influenza in adults" and "Treatment of seasonal influenza in adults" and "Prevention of seasonal influenza in adults" and "Epidemiology of pandemic H1N1 influenza ('swine influenza')" and "Epidemiology, transmission, and pathogenesis of avian influenza".)

DEFINITION OF ANTIGENIC SHIFTS AND DRIFTS - Major changes in the envelope glycoproteins, the hemagglutinin and the neuraminidase, are referred to as antigenic shifts, and minor changes are called antigenic drifts. Antigenic shifts are associated with epidemics and pandemics of influenza A, whereas antigenic drifts are associated with more localized outbreaks of varying extent.

ANTIGENIC SHIFTS - Influenza viruses have a segmented genome that can result in high rates of reassortment among viruses coinfecting the same cell. Reassortment between animal and human viruses may result in the emergence of pandemic strains (table 1) [1,2]. Such reassortment events led to the emergence of the viruses that caused the pandemics of 1957, 1968, and 2009. (See 'Pathogenesis' below.)

Reassortment between different influenza viruses does not always result in a pandemic. As an example, a novel reassortant strain of influenza A H1N2 viruses appeared in humans in the 2001 to 2002 season in North America, Europe, the Middle East, and Southeast Asia, and caused seasonal epidemics [3-5].

There was concern that reassortment between human and avian influenza viruses might have occurred when avian influenza A/H5N1 infections were detected in humans in Hong Kong in March 1997 at the time of an extensive outbreak of avian influenza A/H5N1 in poultry. However, such a reassortant virus was not found. Nevertheless, the potential for such reassortment remains a concern, given the high mortality of avian influenza A/H5N1 infections in humans. (See "Epidemiology, transmission, and pathogenesis of avian influenza".)

Many historians agree that the first recognition of an influenza pandemic was in 1510 [6]. In more recent history, the 1918 influenza was particularly severe and widespread.

Pandemic of 1918 - The extremely severe and extensive pandemic of 1918 and 1919 (swine influenza or Spanish influenza) was associated with the emergence of antigenic shifts in both the hemagglutinin (H1) and the neuraminidase (N1) of influenza A [7]. The pathogenicity of this virus has been well-characterized. (See 'Pathogenesis' below.)

Other pandemics

In 1957, the shift to H2 and N2 resulted in a severe pandemic.
In 1968, an antigenic shift occurred that involved only the hemagglutinin (from H2N2 to H3N2); the resulting pandemic was less extensive than that seen in 1957 [8].
In 1977, an influenza A virus emerged that had shifted to H1N1. The resulting pandemic affected primarily young individuals who lacked preexisting immunity to H1N1 (ie, those born after H1N1 viruses had last circulated from 1918 to 1957).

Since 1977, A/H1N1 and A/H3N2 subtypes along with influenza B viruses have frequently circulated at the same time [9].
The emergence of a novel H1N1 human-swine-avian reassortant virus in March 2009 in North America resulted in a pandemic, and the pandemic H1N1 virus has continued to circulate since then. (See "Epidemiology of pandemic H1N1 influenza ('swine influenza')".)

H3N2 variant influenza - Since July 2011, the United States Centers for Diseases Control and Prevention (CDC) has reported over 300 cases of H3N2 variant influenza A infection caused by reassortment of swine-origin H3N2 influenza A viruses and 2009 pandemic H1N1 influenza A viruses, most of which have occurred since July 2012 [10-17]. The H3N2 variant influenza virus contains the M gene from 2009 pandemic H1N1 influenza A virus, which may confer increased transmissibility to and among humans compared with other swine-origin influenza viruses [14]. However, sustained human-to-human transmission of this strain has not been observed. The majority of cases in 2012 have been reported in Indiana and Ohio, but cases have also been reported in several other states. Almost all patients reported direct or indirect contact with swine, and the majority attended fairs where swine were present. Most patients have had mild illness. Updated case counts can be found on the CDC's website.

The CDC has issued recommendations for the prevention of transmission of H3N2 variant influenza, which include frequent handwashing and avoidance of contact with pigs that appear ill [12]. In addition, individuals at high risk for influenza complications (eg, individuals <5 or ?65 years of age, pregnant women, and individuals with certain chronic medical conditions) should consider avoiding exposure to pigs and swine barns, especially if sick pigs have been identified. Further recommendations can be found on the CDC's website.

The viruses are susceptible to oseltamivir and zanamivir, but resistant to amantadine and rimantadine. (See "Treatment of seasonal influenza in adults", section on 'Choice of antiviral drug'.)

The seasonal influenza vaccine is not expected to provide protection against these strains. (See "Seasonal influenza vaccination in adults", section on 'Vaccine design'.)

The World Health Organization and the CDC, in conjunction with other agencies, have decided to refer to swine-origin influenza viruses identified in humans as "variant" viruses and to denote them with a "v" (eg, H3N2v) [10].

ANTIGENIC DRIFTS - Between the years of antigenic shifts, antigenic drifts have occurred almost annually and have resulted in outbreaks of variable extent and severity. Outbreaks due to antigenic drifts are usually less extensive and severe than the epidemics or pandemics associated with antigenic shifts. Antigenic drifts are believed to result from point mutations in the RNA gene segments that code for the hemagglutinin or the neuraminidase; they are thought to occur sequentially as the virus spreads through a susceptible population [18]. Changes in the hemagglutinin that result in antigenic shifts are of such great magnitude that they cannot be accounted for by point mutations alone.

PATHOGENESIS - The extremely severe and extensive pandemic of 1918 and 1919 resulted in 50 to 100 million deaths worldwide and was exceptional in the high death rates that were seen among healthy adults aged 15 to 34 years [19,20]. A similarly high death rate has not occurred in this age group in either prior or subsequent influenza A pandemics or epidemics.

The pathogenicity of the hemagglutinin of the 1918 pandemic virus was directly demonstrated in a mouse model using genetic recombination techniques [21,22]. Researchers constructed influenza viruses using hemagglutinin alone or hemagglutinin with neuraminidase from the pandemic strain. Both recombinant viruses led to widespread infection of the lungs, suggesting that hemagglutinin conferred enhanced pathogenicity in mice. Furthermore, these recombinant viruses could induce high levels of chemokines and cytokines, resulting in inflammatory cell infiltration and severe hemorrhage that were characteristic of the illness seen during the pandemic.
Scientists used reverse genetics to create an influenza virus with all eight gene segments of the 1918 pandemic strain in order to study its virulence in animal models [23]. After infection, the 1918 strain produced 39,000 times more virus particles in the lungs of mice compared with more contemporary H1N1 influenza strains. Furthermore, the ability of an influenza virus to replicate in the absence of protease is thought to be a critical determinant of pathogenicity in animal models; the 1918 strain was able to replicate equally well in the absence or presence of trypsin in vitro.
Scientists have fully sequenced the entire genome of the 1918 strain, which has given insight into the origins of the virus [24]. In the pandemics of 1957 and 1968, two to three gene segments from avian strains combined with the circulating human strain to form a reassortant virus. The influenza virus that caused the 2009 pandemic was caused by a quadruple reassortment of two swine strains, one human strain, and one avian strain. In contrast, sequence and phylogenetic analyses of the 1918 virus genome suggest that it was derived wholly from an ancestor that originally infected birds and adapted to humans. Some amino acid changes identified in the 1918 strain are also seen in H5N1 and H7N7 avian viruses that have caused human fatalities. (See "Epidemiology, transmission, and pathogenesis of avian influenza".)

CHARACTERISTICS OF INFLUENZA OUTBREAKS - Influenza outbreaks have a seasonal distribution and characteristic time course. Factors influencing the extent and severity of an outbreak are less clear. Two or three different influenza strains typically circulate concurrently in a given influenza season [25].

One factor that may influence which influenza strains will predominate during an influenza season is the seroprotection rate among children during the preceding season. In a study in which children and adults were tested for antibodies to locally circulating influenza strains during three consecutive influenza seasons (2006-2007, 2007-2008, and 2008-2009), the lowest rates of seroprotection in children (but not in adults) coincided with the dominant influenza subtype during the following winter epidemic [26]. The authors suggest that the protection rate in children is important for shaping future epidemics because children are prolific disseminators of respiratory virus infections.

Seasonality - Outbreaks of influenza occur almost exclusively during the winter months in the northern and southern hemispheres (which occur at different times of the year). It is highly unusual to detect influenza A viruses at other times, although individual infections and even outbreaks have been reported during the warm weather months.

Travelers to tropical regions should be reminded that influenza may occur throughout the year in the tropics [27]. In addition, summertime outbreaks of influenza have occurred on cruise ships in the northern and southern hemispheres. Repeat vaccination is not necessary in those who received routine vaccination at the appropriate time in the previous fall or winter. Volume of airline travel has also been linked to transnational spread of influenza infection [28]. (See "Immunizations for travel", section on 'Influenza vaccine' and "Seasonal influenza vaccination in adults" and "Seasonal influenza vaccination in children", section on 'Travelers'.)

How influenza A virus persists between outbreaks remains poorly understood. It is possible that sporadic cases of viral infection at other times are caused by influenza but not diagnosed as such or that virus is imported from geographically distant sites, in which outbreaks are occurring, by the travel of infected individuals.

Time course of an outbreak - Influenza A outbreaks typically begin abruptly, peak over a two to three week period, and last for two to three months [25,29]. In most outbreaks, the earliest indication of influenza activity is an increase in febrile respiratory illnesses in children, followed by increases in influenza-like illnesses in adults. Increases in absenteeism from work and school are usually later manifestations of outbreaks. (See "Clinical manifestations of seasonal influenza in adults".)

Most outbreaks have attack rates of 10 to 20 percent in the general population, but rates can exceed 50 percent in pandemics [30]. Extraordinarily high attack rates have been reported in institutionalized and semiclosed populations.

Factors determining the severity of an outbreak - The factors that determine the extent and severity of outbreaks are not fully understood. The susceptibility of the population, as determined by the prevalence of antibodies to circulating virus, clearly plays a major role. Some outbreaks cease when a large pool of susceptible individuals is no longer present in the population. However, some outbreaks appear to end when a large pool of susceptible individuals still exists. It has been suggested that influenza viruses may differ in "intrinsic virulence" such as their efficiency of transmission or their ability to cause symptomatic infection.

The severity of influenza outbreaks depends partly on the strain(s) of influenza virus circulating among the total population. H3N2 influenza A viruses usually cause the most severe disease, followed by influenza B viruses, and with H1N1 influenza A viruses causing the least severe disease [31-33]. However, among young children, H1N1 influenza infections may be more severe than in older children and adults. Between 1976 and 2007, the average mortality rates in the United States for the 22 seasons during which H3N2 influenza A was a prominent strain were 2.7 times higher than for the nine seasons that it was not the major strain [34]. Seasons in which both H3N2 influenza A viruses and influenza B viruses cocirculate cause higher rates of hospitalization than otherwise expected [31].

ANTIBODY RESPONSE TO THE 1918 PANDEMIC STRAIN - In a study of 32 individuals born in or before 1915, all had neutralizing antibody responses to the H1N1 influenza strain that caused the 1918 pandemic, even nine decades after its occurrence [35]. Seven of eight individuals tested had circulating B cells that secreted antibodies that bound hemagglutinin (HA) from the 1918 pandemic influenza strain. Monoclonal antibodies that were generated from the B cells of three separate donors had potent neutralizing activity against the 1918 strain and bound to its HA protein with high affinity. They also cross-reacted with the genetically similar HA of a 1930 swine H1N1 influenza strain, but did not cross-react with HAs of more contemporary human influenza viruses.

MORBIDITY AND MORTALITY IN ADULTS - Between 1976 and 2007, annual influenza-associated deaths from respiratory and circulatory causes (including pneumonia and influenza) in the United States ranged from 3349 to 48,614, and the annual rate of influenza-associated deaths ranged from 1.4 to 16.7 deaths per 100,000 persons [34]. Due at least in part to high attack rates, the morbidity caused by influenza in the general population is substantial. Among adults, increased rates of morbidity and mortality are associated with advanced age and with underlying comorbidities [36]:

Influenza epidemics generally disproportionately affect elderly persons, with the highest rates of morbidity and mortality in this group [31-33,37-40]. In a study of the National Hospital Discharge Survey database, hospitalization rates for pneumonia increased by 20 percent from 1988-1990 to 2000-2002 for patients aged 65 to 85 years [38]. In addition, the risk of death during a hospitalization was 50 percent higher if the diagnosis was pneumonia compared with 10 other common reasons for admission in the elderly population. The risk of pneumonia in this age group is increased in patients with comorbid conditions, such as chronic cardiac and pulmonary diseases or diabetes [37,38].

Excess hospitalizations for patients with chronic diseases who acquire influenza infection range from approximately 20 to more than 1000 per 100,000 individuals, with the highest rates occurring in those less than five and more than 64 years of age. Similar findings were noted in a retrospective cohort study of women under the age of 65 with and without chronic medical conditions [41]. Rates of hospitalization for acute cardiopulmonary events and mortality were higher during the influenza season and the presence of other comorbidities increased the risk of hospitalization and death.

Influenza vaccination was associated with a decrease in hospitalizations for cardiac disease and cerebrovascular disease among a large cohort of patients 65 years and older from three managed care groups compared to members who were not vaccinated [42]. The mortality rate from all causes was also significantly lower among the vaccinated group.
 

Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
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I got sick on Friday, got a really sore throat and felt pretty congested. I immediately went into "OH FUCK" mode and proceeded to buy a shitload of vitamin C, echinacea, herbal teas, dayquil, nyquil, cold-eeze, and some other shit - basically I wanted to nuke whatever I had into hell. I felt pretty light-headed over the weekend and weak, I was sure I was getting the flu. Woke up today feeling great. I don't know if I destroyed it or I just didn't get the flu, but feelsgoodman.jpg
 

Aychamo BanBan

<Banned>
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I got sick on Friday, got a really sore throat and felt pretty congested. I immediately went into "OH FUCK" mode and proceeded to buy a shitload of vitamin C, echinacea, herbal teas, dayquil, nyquil, cold-eeze, and some other shit - basically I wanted to nuke whatever I had into hell. I felt pretty light-headed over the weekend and weak, I was sure I was getting the flu. Woke up today feeling great. I don't know if I destroyed it or I just didn't get the flu, but feelsgoodman.jpg
Haha, you bought everything except for the one thing that has been shown to decrease the duration of cold symptoms (by only 8 hours): zinc!
 

Noodleface

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Haha, you bought everything except for the one thing that has been shown to decrease the duration of cold symptoms (by only 8 hours): zinc!
Honestly I've tried it and seen 0 improvement. I'm one of those people that gets the cold if I even hear about someone having it. And when I do get colds, they last for a week on average with absolutely terrible symptoms that leave me bed-ridden. I've never been able to explain it, but my brother has the exact same problem. Nothing ever works for us, and usually dayquil ends up making me feel worse.
 

Aychamo BanBan

<Banned>
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Honestly I've tried it and seen 0 improvement. I'm one of those people that gets the cold if I even hear about someone having it. And when I do get colds, they last for a week on average with absolutely terrible symptoms that leave me bed-ridden. I've never been able to explain it, but my brother has the exact same problem. Nothing ever works for us, and usually dayquil ends up making me feel worse.
I don't blame you. I don't recommend zinc unless a mother is just really wanting something else. I just go for cold symptoms with an antihistamine, pain relief, and usually a decongestant. And a lot of those don't even work on a lot of people. When I personally have one I just treat whatever symptom is bothering me the most. Like you said, it just has to run its course. Sometimes I offer to shake a root over people's head if they want
wink.png
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
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I'd like to say that the reason I haven't gotten a flu shot is because I have some superior knowledge of viruses, sickness and immunization, but really I'm just lazy.

Personal anecdote, the last time my work had a big push for 'get everyone flu shots!' where medical professionals came in and immunized 75% of the company, the rampant flu virus had nothing to do with what they were immunized from and it appeared that the people who gobbled up the immunization were more likely to get infected.
 

Cutlery

Kill All the White People
<Gold Donor>
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I'd like to say that the reason I haven't gotten a flu shot is because I have some superior knowledge of viruses, sickness and immunization, but really I'm just lazy.

Personal anecdote, the last time my work had a big push for 'get everyone flu shots!' where medical professionals came in and immunized 75% of the company, the rampant flu virus had nothing to do with what they were immunized from and it appeared that the people who gobbled up the immunization were more likely to get infected.
I started working for my company (Fortune 100) in 2003. For quite a few years, flu shots were provided for free by the company. Come on in while a nurse was there, roll up your sleeve, get a flu shot.

They haven't done that in 2-3 years now. I wonder why. It sure seems like if the flu shot did what it was supposed to do (reduce the amount of incidences of sick days, leading to higher productivity), that it would absolutely be a no brainer for any large company/corporation to do. What is the only possible reason they wouldn't in this country? I'm guessing some bean counter somewhere looked at the shit and said "Huh...you know, this hasn't increased productivity as much as we need it to and we haven't recouped the cost of doing this in sick time savings." What otherpossiblereason could they have had for doing that?

Capitalism is an amazing gauge for bullshit in this country. If a corporation can get an edge on the competition or save money, they'll do fucking anything and disguise it as doing it "for the benefit of their employees." The reality is that our employers don't give a shit about us, and don't do anything to be benevolent. If there is no monetary benefit in it for them, then they don't give a fuck. You (not necessarily you, Tuco, just everyone busting my balls on this shit) wanna offer up an argument to that? It sure seems like if your employer can't recoup the few bucks per dose a flu shot costs, then there's no other way to spin that, huh? It's an anecdote, but the company deciding not to do it anymore must absolutely be based on financial reasons.

Also, lol @ Aychamo thinking anyone takes him seriously or gives a shit what he has to say.
 

lurkingdirk

AssHat Taint
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I've gotten the flu shot once in my life. That year I had three different types of flu. Of course the shot didn't cause that, but it is hard to get motivated to get the shot when that's my only experience with it.

Also, the flu shot missed the most persistent strands of flu this time. That's why the virus is so wide spread. It isn't because the flu shot is rubbish, it's because they can only choose so many strands against which the shot will inoculate. I have friends who have kids (5 and 2) that had flu so severely, they had to go to the hospital to be hydrated through intravenous drip.

The flu is right nasty this year. I really hope I don't get it, that's for damned sure.
 

earthfell

Golden Knight of the Realm
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I got the flu around Dec 20th, and it lasted for about five days or so but left me pretty winded until January started, especially my ears which felt like they had fluid in them or something. Then I got another strain of the flu on Jan 10th, I started coughing all crazy at noon and by 6 pm was shivering and burning up. I'm just barely getting over it now, not really sick but still congested and stuff. The second strain I got was WAY worse than the first.
 

Eomer

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Cutlery_sl said:
It's an anecdote, but the company deciding not to do it anymore must absolutely be based on financial reasons.
It could well be a financial decision, or it could simply be a change in personnel somewhere up in management. Maybe the cost/benefit ratio was pretty much a wash, and whoever used to make such a decision in favor of having the flu shots moved to a new position, got fired, retired whatever and the new person leans the other way. I know this may be hard to comprehend for someone who is so incredibly bitter about his shitty position at the bottom of the corporate ladder, but not every corporate decision comes down to saving or making every last nickel. Even in a large, faceless corporation ultimately individuals are making those decisions.

And for the record, I've never had a flu shot either, at least not that I can remember. Maybe when I was a kid. I'm like Tuco: simply too lazy. I caught something between Christmas and NYE and it stuck around for the better part of two weeks, but all it amounted to was a sore throat and cough for a couple days, and then a snotty nose for about 10 days. Never really felt all that sick other than those symptoms. I think it was just a cold. The two people I was traveling with got extremely sick on NYE, bed ridden at the hotel. I would imagine we had the same thing, my immune system is boss.

If I was walking down the street and some nurse ran up and jabbed me with the vaccine, I'd be like "sweet thanks".
 

Springbok

Karen
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I have an off topic question - is there REALLY no such thing as a "stomach flu"? All cases of a stomach bug (diarrhea/vomiting etc) are viral in nature? A flu shot doesn't do anything for that then?

I got a flu shot this year for the first time in my entire life, because I was sick of getting a stomach bug around the holidays every. fucking. year. So far, so good (knocks on wood) - but that is probably due to my healthier eating and no more random sex/drunken weekends. Everyone that works for me has been sick this month though, and I've advised ALL of them to keep their asses at home. They can answer e-mails/update spreadsheets from their beds. People that go to work legitimately sick are fucking demented.
 

Aychamo BanBan

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Also, lol @ Aychamo thinking anyone takes him seriously or gives a shit what he has to say.
I love that I posted a book's worth of information for you, and instead of taking it in and saying "Damn, I was wrong, and I learned something. Thank you," you instead just continue to insult and spread your nonsense. You're just foolish.
 

Aychamo BanBan

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It could well be a financial decision, or it could simply be a change in personnel somewhere up in management. Maybe the cost/benefit ratio was pretty much a wash, and whoever used to make such a decision in favor of having the flu shots moved to a new position, got fired, retired whatever and the new person leans the other way. I know this may be hard to comprehend for someone who is so incredibly bitter about his shitty position at the bottom of the corporate ladder, but not every corporate decision comes down to saving or making every last nickel. Even in a large, faceless corporation ultimately individuals are making those decisions.
There is almost zero thought put into any health policy decision. Our state just decided that it will no longer pay for hospice benefits for Medicaid patients. So anyone on Medicaid will no longer be eligible for hospice. (By the way, welcome to Obamacare, kids.) So what does everyone think will happen when these patients are on their deathbeds? Now they'll be brought to the hospital, which is way more expensive than hospice. So now by trying to save money, they've cost us all a ton more money. It's just absolutely idiotic.

Eomer_sl said:
And for the record, I've never had a flu shot either, at least not that I can remember. Maybe when I was a kid. I'm like Tuco: simply too lazy. I caught something between Christmas and NYE and it stuck around for the better part of two weeks, but all it amounted to was a sore throat and cough for a couple days, and then a snotty nose for about 10 days. Never really felt all that sick other than those symptoms. I think it was just a cold. The two people I was traveling with got extremely sick on NYE, bed ridden at the hotel. I would imagine we had the same thing, my immune system is boss.

If I was walking down the street and some nurse ran up and jabbed me with the vaccine, I'd be like "sweet thanks".
I think an interesting exercise here for everyone would be to write down on a piece of paper what they think a flu is, and what a viral upper respiratory infection is, the differences between them, and then look it up. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I do think the general public consistently confuses the two.