Gaming addiction to be added to DSM!?

Utnayan said:

This. “Hey we noticed you spent 10-20 hours of your leisure time per week for the last 2 months reading over 200 books. We think you have a reading disorder”. Said no mental health expert ever.

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eh, they have... well.. they used to... they don't say it's a reading disorder because books don't flood your brain with dopamine the way other things do. that being said, lots of people said lots of writers were insane.

Disability tends to be pretty anemic: "Most SSDI recipients receive between $700 and $1,700 per month (the average for 2017 is $1,171). However, if you are receiving disability payments from other sources, as discussed below, your payment may be reduced."

Math:

$1,700 x 12 months = $20,400
$20,400 broken down into 40 hours as week and 52 weeks a year = $9.81/hour

j00t said:

he really DOESN'T want to quit, he just doesn't want to get caught. a mother who is facing jailtime and getting her kids taken away because she shot up in the car while they were in the backseat? she doesn't WANT to keep doing that. she doesn't WANT to be in the situation she's in. she knows that everytime she uses, heck, everytime she even THINKS about using, she's literally risking everything she has but does it anyway... she qualifies for 4.

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You assume she doesn't want to be in that situation because to you it seems ludicrous. Only that lady can know if she actually want to quit or not.

5. the site you quoted missed the key parts of this, but that's okay because most people do. "excessive amounts of time are spent USING, RECOVERING from use, or OBTAINING the drug (or habit or whatever it is). let's say you go out and drink everynight. is that excessive? it's every night right? that would "seem" excessive right? what if it's only for an hour? well... that's less than 5% of your day. by very definition that's not excessive. oh, but what about OBTAINING? and RECOVERING from using? i knew a guy who drank every night with his friends. for about an hour or so. not a lot of time actually drinking respectively. but he'd wake up in the morning hung over, spend all day at work miserable until one of his buddies would say "hey, where we going and who's driving?" then he'd sit and count the minutes until he could get done with work, take care of house stuff and then go out. THAT is what i would call excessive.

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You would call it excessive because he enjoys doing something and looks forward to it. Do you ever spend time waiting for something you want to do? You ever anticipate the weekend football games (or football season starting again), the new episode of some tv show, a new movie coming out, a new book coming out, a new game coming out or being able to play one you already have? Everybody does. People look forward to doing things they enjoy.

I don't watch tv, to me everyone getting hyped up for the next episode of Game of Thrones or Walking Dead is just as silly as i'm sure they see me when I get hyped up for a new game or anime or something.

6. clearly put, the person themselves decides what's important. i might say, it's important that you vote, but you might say, no it's not. screw that noise i'm going drinking. clinically, i can't count that because YOU didn't think it was important in the first place. but if you say to me, i missed my dad's funeral because i was drunk... i just couldn't see him... well, that's a different story.

as to your other point about the other ones not counting, i can assure you, they do. sure, there is a section on "pharmacological effects" (tolerance and withdrawal) that are not going to have any place in the discussion, but things like "hazerdous use/using in dangerous situations" sure counts. what about all those dudes in china who keep dying in internet cafes because they stop eating? stop drinking? what about "continued use despite physical or psychological side effects such as depression," what about "cravings?" yeah you're not craving a line of coke, but you can't stop thinking about how cool it would be to make a skyrim mod that let's you be a unicorn.

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"Cravings" falls under my previous point about looking forward to doing things you enjoy. How is thinking about making a skyrim mod any different than thinking about doing anything else you are planning/want to do?
I would argue that those people who die in internet cafes because they want to go on 90 hour gaming binges and don't eat is not so much a mental health issue related to video games as it is to some other mental issue coupled with the way those places work. What about that story we got linked on here a few months ago or w/e about the guy working 20+ hours a day? I guess work should be classified as an addiction and health issue.

my point is that the wording needs to be adjusted and certain things don't make sense in the context of video games, but not nearly as much as you want and even then, the things most people think are incredibly important, aren't. you know how many times i hear people say "i'm not an addict because i don't have withdrawal. guess what, most cocaine users never experience withdrawal. but also guess what, that headache you get in the morning that isn't really that big of a deal but it's there anyway? that attitude you get until you get your morning cup of coffee? that's caffeine withdrawal.

just because you have withdrawal doesn't need you need to go to treatment.

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I would say most cocaine users experience withdrawal every time they use it when they stop for the night, at least based on my personal use of it. Yes, just because you have withdrawal doesn't mean you need treatment. Also yes: Just because you spend x hours a week playing video games doesn't mean you have a "mental health issue" or an addiction problem. Nobody tries to classify things as either of these unless they are looking for some way to regulate/stigmatize them which is why bringing up television or any other hobby is perfectly valid.

Binks said:

Disability tends to be pretty anemic: "Most SSDI recipients receive between $700 and $1,700 per month (the average for 2017 is $1,171). However, if you are receiving disability payments from other sources, as discussed below, your payment may be reduced."

Math:

$1,700 x 12 months = $20,400
$20,400 broken down into 40 hours as week and 52 weeks a year = $9.81/hour

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$20,400 a year is around what i've made working for the past 12 years of my life, give or take a few thousand. Maybe I really am stupid.

But the 70th consecutive hour is just when the farm gets good. WHO plebs are probably those fuckers who say they're in for a 5 day server launch grind and then start whining for a sleep break 18 hours in.

No way you could sustain a jrpg addition on that much.

zombiewizardhawk said:

You assume she doesn't want to be in that situation because to you it seems ludicrous.

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well yes. exactly. because it seems ludicrous, but yet she still does it? that's called impaired control. here's a hint, it seems ludicrous to her, too.

You would call it excessive because he enjoys doing something and looks forward to it. Do you ever spend time waiting for something you want to do? You ever anticipate the weekend football games (or football season starting again), the new episode of some tv show, a new movie coming out, a new book coming out, a new game coming out or being able to play one you already have? Everybody does. People look forward to doing things they enjoy.

I don't watch tv, to me everyone getting hyped up for the next episode of Game of Thrones or Walking Dead is just as silly as i'm sure they see me when I get hyped up for a new game or anime or something.

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i didn't call it excessive because he's doing something he likes. i called it excessive because it's his primary (and in a lot of addict's case, solitary) focus in life. there's a difference between "i can't wait to see this new movie" and "the only thing that will bring me any modicum of enjoyment in life is this movie and once that movie is over i have to rush out and go see another movie and once that movie is over i have to find another movie and once that movie etc etc etc"

"Cravings" falls under my previous point about looking forward to doing things you enjoy. How is thinking about making a skyrim mod any different than thinking about doing anything else you are planning/want to do?
I would argue that those people who die in internet cafes because they want to go on 90 hour gaming binges and don't eat is not so much a mental health issue related to video games as it is to some other mental issue coupled with the way those places work. What about that story we got linked on here a few months ago or w/e about the guy working 20+ hours a day? I guess work should be classified as an addiction and health issue.

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when you think about cravings, it's much easier to think about them in terms of pregnant women. okay, so we all know pregnant women can crave some weird, goofy stuff. pickles and ice cream, peanut butter and mayo... i had a vegatarian friend of mine crave meat. my ex-wife craved raw hamburger. as in, she had to leave her grocery cart full of food and run out into the parking lot and drive home because if she didn't she was going to rip open a pack of hamburger and go to town. there's also an eating disorder called pica that some women can develop ONLY WHEN THEY ARE PREGNANT where they crave hair and dirt. grabbing it out of their hairbrush or from the ground shoving it into their mouths, the whole time saying "oh god, i'm a monster!" THAT is a craving. i'm not talking about "what do you want for dinner, honey?" "oh, i've been craving a nice steak, let's go to that new place." I'm talking "this is so gross this is so gross this is so gross why can't i stop"

I would say most cocaine users experience withdrawal every time they use it when they stop for the night, at least based on my personal use of it. Yes, just because you have withdrawal doesn't mean you need treatment. Also yes: Just because you spend x hours a week playing video games doesn't mean you have a "mental health issue" or an addiction problem. Nobody tries to classify things as either of these unless they are looking for some way to regulate/stigmatize them which is why bringing up television or any other hobby is perfectly valid.

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cocaine withdrawal is about as common as marijuana withdrawal. which is to say that it's common but it's not really that bad or even noticeable (as far as withdrawal goes). you can't even get into detox for cocaine use (under normal circumstances). and honestly, i agree with you in that addiction to any hobby is perfectly valid, which is why i have no problem looking at something like a video game addiction, though it would probably make much more sense to have it be some sort of broader term... just hearing your phone chirp can flood your brain with chemicals the same way that hearing the slot machine jingle can.

It didn't take long for this thread to devolve into an "addictive vs habit forming" debate.

The war on vidyas never ends

j00t said:

addiction disorders are fundamentally mental health issues. this is a really interesting point of view on the topic. it's not perfect, but it really identifies how someone people can use drugs without becoming addicts and some can't. for the exact same reason i fully believe that "gaming addiction" is a very real thing. I can't remember who said it, but there's a quote that i always remember when talking about video games. "What does it say about real life when millions of people continually choose to spend their time in a pretend world?"

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Yeah this is sort of echoing what Bernie Sanders said regarding addiction and drug epidemics. He cited the rat study where the rats wouldn't administer drugs if the cages were stimulating enough they would take the drugs but not return. The rats didn't care about the drugs in the good cage. The rats in the shitty cages would repeatedly administer the drugs and it was all they cared about.

Sanders quote, "We need to build better cages for these people". Not the prettiest way to state it-- but the point stands unchallenged.

ZyyzYzzy We're talking pre- DNC defeat era so nothing offhand. I wouldn't be surprised if he pulled it out of his ass for a prop point to stoke his base-- populists man...

ZyyzYzzy said:

Hmmm? Link to actual study and not someone misusing it for political reasons?

There is plenty of literature of rodents repeatedly chosing cocaine over food.

Cocaine is a hell of a drug.

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just google "rat park" there's a ton of info out there and of course some of it's divisive. i don't want to link something that props one side of the argument over the other.

like i said earlier, it's not a perfect solution, there's obviously more going on with addiction because there are PLENTY of people who never touch drugs until they get hooked on pain killers after a legitimate injury. but, the other side of the argument (as grim as it is) is that insurance companies wouldn't cover pain killers if the likelihood of someone becoming an addict was too high, they wouldn't risk the lawsuit. so while they are plenty of people abusing pain killers, it's a small enough percentage that insurance companies don't care.

either way, the bottom line is that happy, healthy, well adjusted people rarely, if ever, do drugs. if drugs make you feel good, but you already feel good, what's the point? you'd only see the negative consequences. but if you feel miserable and hate life, all the negative consequences from drugs don't matter because it's just more garbage on the pile.

i'm oversimplifying the situation, i know, but there you go

The more important question is who fuckin cares

ZyyzYzzy said:

Yes, let's completely ignore the actual neurological explination of addiction (drugs or any kind) and just say happy people are immune.....

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I didn't say happy people are immune. I said they have less reason to even think about using