General Gaming News and Discussion

Kharzette · Jul 19, 2023

I don't really know much about esports or what the future holds. I watch all the overwatch related esport stuff I can because I find it interesting but I am not at all into other forms.

I think the most popular is this shitty old RTS looking game whose name escapes me. Why anyone finds that interesting I have no idea.

Then there are shooters like counterstrike and valorant (which is just a blatant ripoff of counterstrike) and that is really just watching someone camp a corner. Literally 90% of the time it's just some guy looking down sights at a spot he expects a head to appear.

When the league started I was skeptical if the city based teams would take off. There were already established teams with established fanbases and hero players with their own fanbases. In some areas it really worked. Dallas and Houston had alot of home games and big crowds with a great rivalry. Same for the two LA teams. Paris fans were absolutely rabid. Home games there were nuts.

They also ditched some of the people that really helped create the scene via early tournaments. They brought in casters from other games that had no idea what they were doing and were obviously faking excitement. Some of the casters barely had a grasp of english and were just staggeringly stupid, basically just chiming in to read off what was on the screen. Others were fantastic, but all but one of them are gone and the dumbasses remain.

Furor's alleged shenanigans didn't help. They lost some bigtime big money sponsors like Toyota etc. Well really they lost all of them. Then right as the entire league was set to go fully to home / away lan matches covid hit and flushed it all down the toilet.

I'm honestly more excited for the world cup this year than owl. Atlanta is so dominant I don't see anyone even taking a map off them, but the world cup could throw a few surprises. I really want to see what Saudi Arabia can do vs Korea or the US.

Caeden · Jul 20, 2023

Do esports take a knee for BLM or just because of the long walk to their chair?

OU Ariakas · Jul 20, 2023

The issue with eSports is that they are trying to make it too much like real sports. I have really enjoyed watching the LoL worlds for the last few years but I don't think you could make me cough up money to go see it in person because the players are just playing and I'm watching a screen. Hell, I can hardly be bothered to attend live sports events anymore unless they are convenient and not super expensive (haha).

They really need to push the E in eSports by using more dollars on promotion and prize pools and almost ZERO on renting stadiums and lighting; that shit is for the 1 or 2 times a year that all the teams can be flown in to the same place for the most important events. Even close rivals like Houston vs. Dallas should be online and streamed via a platform and they should go the soccer route by plastering sponsors all over the IN GAME field to make that sweet revenue stream. Set the expectation that all the games and tournaments will be streamed and only the most important events will have players even leaving their own city. Anything else is going to lose money until it shuts down.

Khane · Jul 20, 2023

Most games don't lend themselves to esports formats. Shooters, MOBAs and Fighting games are the only ones with consistent, big followings. RTS can work but there just aren't a lot of games in that genre and only Korea seems to care about them.

Burns · Jul 20, 2023

Asperations of making every Blizzard game an eSports game is part of what ruined them. Fuck eSports.

Daidraco · Jul 20, 2023

Burns said:
Asperations of making every Blizzard game an eSports game is part of what ruined them. Fuck eSports.

Thats is my take as well. The WOW team chasing esports, imo, is one of the bigger reasons (out of many) that helped add to the huge decline back in WOD, MOP, etc. All the way to this very day. Its why they forsaked the social atmosphere in favor of making content ball busting hard - which, hell.. Elden Ring and that subgenre is about the only games Ive ever seen pull off, successfully, difficult content for the main stream. We needed retard Bob and his 45 year old wife in the guild cause Bob was funny af.

Honestly, Ive just never figured out how they would make it more than a passing fad in any game. No video game has the staying power, to tons of people, like say.. Football or something that has been around for years and years. Maybe when games are no longer demanding on PC's, I guess.

Mist · Jul 20, 2023

Khane said:
Most games don't lend themselves to esports formats. Shooters, MOBAs and Fighting games are the only ones with consistent, big followings. RTS can work but there just aren't a lot of games in that genre and only Korea seems to care about them.

Card games have done consistently well over a long period of time, digitally or physical. I would lump them into the same categories.

Mist · Jul 20, 2023

Burns said:
Asperations of making every Blizzard game an eSports game is part of what ruined them. Fuck eSports.

Overwatch and Hearthstone made sense as eSports games, but WoW certainly never did.

gauze · Jul 20, 2023

Kharzette said:
I don't really know much about esports or what the future holds. I watch all the overwatch related esport stuff I can because I find it interesting but I am not at all into other forms.

Then there are shooters like counterstrike and valorant (which is just a blatant ripoff of counterstrike) and that is really just watching someone camp a corner. Literally 90% of the time it's just some guy looking down sights at a spot he expects a head to appear.

I am pretty sure we're in a situation where big money was invested into it and now pulling out because it doesn't have nearly as much return as they expected. People like disguisedtoast, charlie, and ludwig have conversations about how painful it is to run an e-sport org but they're using their platform to facilitate it "efficiently." It's only really self-sustainable at best, and that self-sustained is grown based on its reach, and sponsors love reach. Things like Overwatch had a very explosive but limited reach made worse by various decisions from developers and choices like switching to a platform like youtube. I am not entirely sure if Blizzard policed it, but Valorant/Riot do things like promoting watch together for their tournaments with content creators to push their reach.. but valorant in my opinion is doing mediocre at best but a lot of that comes down to the gameplay; it suffers the same stagnation/readability Overwatch does due to class-based shooter despite some standout performances revolving around player uniqueness/"revolutionary" gameplay. Counter-Strike is still doing really well in that regard, Blast Premiere is going on and its in Group Stages; pulling about 60k on Twitch, and 35k on YT at this exact moment.

Overwatch and Valorant/League/Riot both lean heavily into franchise-style tournaments, where they run the platform. Valorant specifically does a kind of year-end point with minor "community" // sponsored organized tournaments that are not officially riot ran tournaments. It works well for Riot because they get the return investment from the community's investment into it, but also in that same sense, it's the reason we're seeing NA League "failing" because the interests are becoming less due to development and general stereotypical opinions, but also the skill of the players. The reality is, the NA region does not produce good players. An example is Shroud, hes seen as an extremely good player.. but he was actually really mediocre in Counter-Strike despite being a part of one of the most favorite rosters with people like Skadoodle, n0thing, seangares, and freakazoid.

Counter-Strike operates with a couple of "community" esq organizations. They have ESL(ESEA), Faceit, Blast, Intel Extreme Masters, PGL, Starladder, and a few other ones that aren't really series based.. but all run off cash prize pools attracting professional teams to play. Then you have Valve partnered/sponsored events that are called Majors(3/yr-ish), which is often partnered with people like ESL, IEM, or PGL to create a big event with Valve money and development(in-game trophies, stickers, skins, ect; the real $$$). A 2014 IBP Holo sticker is worth 25,000$ USD, think about how "lucrative" that is as a viewer to chase that carrot.

and as far as the 90% camping comment, that is simply just wrong. But hey, I'm not here to convince you to like it.. I've competed at a semi-pro level, so I am highly bias. It's no different from saying any other sport is better or worse than another sport for reasons. It's just an execute-heavy game, teams are provided the same tools and given the same opportunities which its up to the player to make the best of it.. and every player offers vastly different styles of play; some are known to be incredibly aggressive and some are methodical. But your sentiment is the same reason I hate watching league tournaments because Phase 1 and Phase 2, fucking suck.. only really the Chinese make Phase 1 and 2 look good, and if they fail it.. they usually lose.. Koreans, who are arguably some of the best players of all time; rely on the late game majority of the time.. so you run into 0 kill games by 25 minutes. It's not the standard, but it happens.. same with camping 90% of the time. 2min rounds, first to 16, with unlimited OT, there is only so much "camping" that can happen.. and the game does begin to slow down the fewer players on the board because 2+ crosshairs will always be better than 1; but 1 can win a 1v5.

Esports is doing just fine, just NA sucks. It's basically soccer. Battle Royales, which was essentially the last "biggest" game type to come out, esp in the FPS space.. absolutely abysmal as a spectator sport. Too much camera work for it to be at all decent. FGC is doing fine, just controversies... and tbh, nothing will beat when it was in its WWE style commentary days.. the clean up just makes it like racing where its just easier to go look at the highlight reels.

Rajaah · Jul 20, 2023

spronk said:
hot coffee $200 dlc

Wonder when we'll get a GTA in UE5 with that Matrix engine. First thing I thought when I saw that demo wasn't Superman, it was GTA. Maybe GTA7?

Utnayan · Jul 20, 2023

Rajaah said:
Wonder when we'll get a GTA in UE5 with that Matrix engine. First thing I thought when I saw that demo wasn't Superman, it was GTA. Maybe GTA7?

Nope never. They use Rage and will not deviate. Rage 9 is actually way outpacing UE5 anyway.

Kharzette · Jul 20, 2023

gauze said:
I am pretty sure we're in a situation where big money was invested into it and now pulling out because it doesn't have nearly as much return as they expected. People like disguisedtoast, charlie, and ludwig have conversations about how painful it is to run an e-sport org but they're using their platform to facilitate it "efficiently." It's only really self-sustainable at best, and that self-sustained is grown based on its reach, and sponsors love reach. Things like Overwatch had a very explosive but limited reach made worse by various decisions from developers and choices like switching to a platform like youtube. I am not entirely sure if Blizzard policed it, but Valorant/Riot do things like promoting watch together for their tournaments with content creators to push their reach.. but valorant in my opinion is doing mediocre at best but a lot of that comes down to the gameplay; it suffers the same stagnation/readability Overwatch does due to class-based shooter despite some standout performances revolving around player uniqueness/"revolutionary" gameplay. Counter-Strike is still doing really well in that regard, Blast Premiere is going on and its in Group Stages; pulling about 60k on Twitch, and 35k on YT at this exact moment.

Overwatch and Valorant/League/Riot both lean heavily into franchise-style tournaments, where they run the platform. Valorant specifically does a kind of year-end point with minor "community" // sponsored organized tournaments that are not officially riot ran tournaments. It works well for Riot because they get the return investment from the community's investment into it, but also in that same sense, it's the reason we're seeing NA League "failing" because the interests are becoming less due to development and general stereotypical opinions, but also the skill of the players. The reality is, the NA region does not produce good players. An example is Shroud, hes seen as an extremely good player.. but he was actually really mediocre in Counter-Strike despite being a part of one of the most favorite rosters with people like Skadoodle, n0thing, seangares, and freakazoid.

Counter-Strike operates with a couple of "community" esq organizations. They have ESL(ESEA), Faceit, Blast, Intel Extreme Masters, PGL, Starladder, and a few other ones that aren't really series based.. but all run off cash prize pools attracting professional teams to play. Then you have Valve partnered/sponsored events that are called Majors(3/yr-ish), which is often partnered with people like ESL, IEM, or PGL to create a big event with Valve money and development(in-game trophies, stickers, skins, ect; the real $$$). A 2014 IBP Holo sticker is worth 25,000$ USD, think about how "lucrative" that is as a viewer to chase that carrot.

and as far as the 90% camping comment, that is simply just wrong. But hey, I'm not here to convince you to like it.. I've competed at a semi-pro level, so I am highly bias. It's no different from saying any other sport is better or worse than another sport for reasons. It's just an execute-heavy game, teams are provided the same tools and given the same opportunities which its up to the player to make the best of it.. and every player offers vastly different styles of play; some are known to be incredibly aggressive and some are methodical. But your sentiment is the same reason I hate watching league tournaments because Phase 1 and Phase 2, fucking suck.. only really the Chinese make Phase 1 and 2 look good, and if they fail it.. they usually lose.. Koreans, who are arguably some of the best players of all time; rely on the late game majority of the time.. so you run into 0 kill games by 25 minutes. It's not the standard, but it happens.. same with camping 90% of the time. 2min rounds, first to 16, with unlimited OT, there is only so much "camping" that can happen.. and the game does begin to slow down the fewer players on the board because 2+ crosshairs will always be better than 1; but 1 can win a 1v5.

Esports is doing just fine, just NA sucks. It's basically soccer. Battle Royales, which was essentially the last "biggest" game type to come out, esp in the FPS space.. absolutely abysmal as a spectator sport. Too much camera work for it to be at all decent. FGC is doing fine, just controversies... and tbh, nothing will beat when it was in its WWE style commentary days.. the clean up just makes it like racing where its just easier to go look at the highlight reels.

The youtube deal with overwatch forbade any co-streaming, and that was also a big pain point. Even their last year on twitch it was embarrassing that if you looked at the overwatch category, that XQC retard had more viewers than the league did in the overwatch category.

They are allowing it for the world cup and it has been great. Jay3, Emong, Kragi and others were all watch partying. Jay3 would even invite players into discord for interviews after the matches. In some matches he managed to get both teams in discord and it was great to hear them talk. Good sportsmanship all around since it is a country based event.

I remember thinking how cool it would have been to have had that for the league the past few years.

Kharzette · Jul 20, 2023

Caeden said:
Do esports take a knee for BLM or just because of the long walk to their chair?

No but they play this at the start of every show:

The poor moderators get so overwhelmed during this

Burns · Jul 20, 2023

Kharzette said:
No but they play this at the start of every show:

The poor moderators get so overwhelmed during this

Sweet, so you can just say you don't care what your pronouns are and, all of a sudden, you too can be part of a persecuted class in need of special protections!

joz123 · Jul 20, 2023

Anyone have the online Nintendo membership that lets you play the retro games? Wondering if the games play decently cause I am interested in the N64 stuff + extra tracks for Mario Kart 8.

Hateyou · Jul 20, 2023

joz123 said:
Anyone have the online Nintendo membership that lets you play the retro games? Wondering if the games play decently cause I am interested in the N64 stuff + extra tracks for Mario Kart 8.

They play just like they were on the original system. It’s worth the price imo, it’s like $20 a year or something? My kid and his buddies all love the Mario kart extra tracks. I thought I had to buy that separately from the online stuff though? Can’t remember the details.

joz123 · Jul 20, 2023

Hateyou said:
They play just like they were on the original system. It’s worth the price imo, it’s like $20 a year or something? My kid and his buddies all love the Mario kart extra tracks. I thought I had to buy that separately from the online stuff though? Can’t remember the details.

50 for a year to play the N64 and GBA games along with the Genesis/NES/SNES stuff + MK8 tracks. The $20 doesn't let you play N64 or GBA games/MK8 extra tracks.

Zindan · Jul 20, 2023

Utnayan said:
Nope never. They use Rage and will not deviate. Rage 9 is actually way outpacing UE5 anyway.

Rage is Carmack's engine, right?

Hateyou · Jul 20, 2023

joz123 said:
50 for a year to play the N64 and GBA games along with the Genesis/NES/SNES stuff + MK8 tracks. The $20 doesn't let you play N64 or GBA games/MK8 extra tracks.

Ah ok, that must be why I paid for the tracks separately!

We only play the snes games on the retro stuff.

Kaige · Jul 20, 2023

joz123 said:
Anyone have the online Nintendo membership that lets you play the retro games? Wondering if the games play decently cause I am interested in the N64 stuff + extra tracks for Mario Kart 8.

The N64 games perform well but can be awkward with the Switch controls. They sell an N64 controller but its always sold out because of the scalpers.

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