GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
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Cersei being a villain was established in season one episode one. She hasn't had a chance to do much heinous shit *lately* since she's under house arrest, but yeah... She has definitely got a longer rap sheet than LF.
what did she do in season one? she tried to get ned to take the black. she didnt want jaime to throw bran off the tower. the only fucked up shit she may have done was kill all Robbie B's bastards, but in context thats not really villainous for royalty in that era. she manipulated lancel into killing robby b, but robby b was a shit to her. its wrong of course, but i dont think that makes her a villain.

having said that if she decides to burn KL to the fucking ground i will have to drop the case. we shall see.
 

Greyform

Bronze Knight of the Realm
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Leader of the Faith Militant is definitely a villain in my mind also.
You know I hate that dude, but I keep having to ask myself why? I mean what has he really done wrong? all the people he has fucked with needed fucking with. Yet I still hate his ass.
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
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Dude, if you don't see Cersei as a villain, I'm really doubting that you have watched the show at all. I was hoping at first you just forgot about it or something. Maybe start watching more of those videos you always link. Leader of the Faith Militant is definitely a villain in my mind also.

They aren't completely black villains with zero redeeming qualities. That is a good thing. We don't always need a Joffrey or a Ramsay. I think both of them were far less interesting than a Cersei.
name me one famous historical leader who you consider a "good guy" and there will be fucked up shit they did.

everyone loves tyrion, but tyrion murdered his ex gf and his own father. in the book he had some dude murdered and turned into fucking stew because he was trying to get with shae. you cant really call too many people villains with any certainty in this series.
 

khalid

Unelected Mod
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name me one famous historical leader who you consider a "good guy" and there will be fucked up shit they did.
Cersei is a vain, stupid, vicious person with pretty much no redeeming qualities. This is true on the show, even more true in the books.

 

khalid

Unelected Mod
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You know I hate that dude, but I keep having to ask myself why? I mean what has he really done wrong? all the people he has fucked with needed fucking with. Yet I still hate his ass.
Outside of disliking religious zealots in general, he dragged Margaery and Loras off to cells and tortured them for no (or at least selfish or religious) real reason.
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
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Cersei is a vain, stupid, vicious person with pretty much no redeeming qualities. This is true on the show, even more true in the books.

yes to almost all those things, but she has redeeming qualities. she is protective of her children and would do whatever to keep them safe. what mother/queen wouldnt do those things? the more power and influence one has the more severe the consequences of those actions, but they do stem from her simple act of protection.
 

spronk

FPS noob
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Princess Sandy and Queen Snakey and Lord Voldemort shall ride forth from Dorne next season and be all evil and stuff, just wait till you see the amazing fight choreography and Dorne poetry that will establish the new line of arch enemies
 

pharmakos

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Cersei has repeatedly said that she wants power and will stop at nothing to get it/keep it. The only people she cares about are Jamie and her kids. She would enslave the rest of Westeros if she could.
 

Kovaks

Mr. Poopybutthole
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You know I hate that dude, but I keep having to ask myself why? I mean what has he really done wrong? all the people he has fucked with needed fucking with. Yet I still hate his ass.
Do you also really hate Bernie Sanders, that might be part of it.
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
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Cersei has repeatedly said that she wants power and will stop at nothing to get it/keep it. The only people she cares about are Jamie and her kids. She would enslave the rest of Westeros if she could.
she cares about herself probably more than all those things, she is an entitled brat, but a brat with the power of the 7 kingdoms. still a brat though. if you want i can say she is a villain in the context of modern times, but for her era? dude i dunno, we had a lot of terrible leaders did terrible terrible things in our history but also achieved many great things that helped humans as a society evolve.

thats what so great about these kinds of novels, these characters are not simple black and white caricatures of what we perceive as good and evil. sure you get the mustache twirlers like ramsay and joffrey who willfully torture and kill people for simple pleasure. but then you have people who do terrible things for reasons that seem rational to them and are rational in the context of their situation. arya murdered quite a few people who were not considered "bad people" or at least didnt deserve to die. im starting to think that the Night King may turn out not to be the endgame boss we assume he is.
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
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she cares about herself probably more than all those things, she is an entitled brat, but a brat with the power of the 7 kingdoms. still a brat though. if you want i can say she is a villain in the context of modern times, but for her era? dude i dunno, we had a lot of terrible leaders in our history who achieved many great things that helped humans as a society evolve.
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Ambiturner

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You think the person responsible for the death of Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark isn't a villain in Game of Thrones?

Wtf?
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
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You think the person responsible for the death of Robert Baratheon and Ned Stark isn't a villain in Game of Thrones?

Wtf?
not ned, she wanted ned to take the black, she knows that killing ned would destabilize the realm.

as for bobby b?
well he wasnt exactly peaches and cream, some would even call him a villain.

btw it depresses me how good this show used to be.
 

Azrayne

Irenicus did nothing wrong
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Slapping Cersei was shitty, but on the spectrum of evil shit that people have done in the show, it's way way the fuck down the list, and he felt bad about it afterwards. Cersei sure as fuck doesn't feel bad about any of the heinous crap she's pulled.

Trying to kill Dany was also a bit of a grey area. Is killing a pregnant teenager shitty? Absolutely. But so is allowing a potential contender to the Throne to live, gather power, build an army and get tens of thousands of people killed and destroy the lives of more in a war of conquest because she wants a Throne she's never seen on a continent she doesn't remember. Those are the kind of decisions a medieval ruler has to make.

Bit of a side thought, but I wonder if Dany knows that Varys, now serving as her advisor, was the one who instigated those murder attempts?
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
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Slapping Cersei was shitty, but on the spectrum of evil shit that people have done in the show, it's way way the fuck down the list, and he felt bad about it afterwards. Cersei sure as fuck doesn't feel bad about any of the heinous crap she's pulled.

Trying to kill Dany was also a bit of a grey area. Is killing a pregnant teenager shitty? Absolutely. But so is allowing a potential contender to the Throne to live, gather power, build an army and get tens of thousands of people killed and destroy the lives of more in a war of conquest because she wants a Throne she's never seen on a continent she doesn't remember. Those are the kind of decisions a medieval ruler has to make.

Bit of a side thought, but I wonder if Dany knows that Varys, now serving as her advisor, was the one who instigated those murder attempts?
i dont recall if this was in the show, but cersei also claims robert raped her many times. then cheated on her like crazy. look i am not apologizing for cersei's actions. i dont think she is a "good" person in any respect for the era she lived in, but i cant say she is a true villain in the classical sense either.

quick edit just to be on topic.
if cersei uses wildfire to burn the septon and all the sparrows to the ground thats still a gray area of whether she is a villain or not, but if she plans on burning the whole KL down then yes she has graduated to full blown villain.
 

Drinsic

privileged excrementlord
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i dont recall if this was in the show, but cersei also claims robert raped her many times. then cheated on her like crazy. look i am not apologizing for cersei's actions i dont think she is a "good" person in any respect for the era she lived in, but i cant say she is a true villain in the classical sense.
lol, if we're going to talk about the books...

She convinces Jaime to (attempt to) murder Bran.
She tries to have Arya's hand cut off, and later tries to convince Jaime to maim/kill her.
Littlefinger suggests that she had one of Robert's side-squeezes sold into slavery and her two bastard children killed.
Rumor is that Sir Hugh of the Vale's death at the tourney was orchestrated by Cersei.
Cersei tries to have Robert killed in the melee, and later actually has him killed while hunting.
Instead of owning up to being a twincester, she has Ned imprisoned, which results in his death - all this despite the fact that Ned was actively trying to keep them from being killed by Robert.
She has a whore beaten as leverage against Tyrion.
She tells the Iron Bank to fuck off, which results in who knows how many deaths due to the economic fallout and chaos.
She allows Qyburn to torture and experiment on people.
She thinks one of her maids is working for Margaery and has her tortured/sacrificed for Qyburn's experiments.
She tries to have Bronn murdered for naming his kid Tyrion.
She has one of the people that tried to help her with Bronn's murder tortured/sacrificed for Qyburn's experiments.
She tries to have Margaery framed for adultery and treason, instead of herself.

Villains can have motivations. She's still a villain in this story.
 

Chukzombi

Millie's Staff Member
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i wasnt referencing the books primarily, but i dunno if the line about being raped by robert was a book only thing or a book+ show thing. in the show she is more ambiguous.