GoT - Is Over, Post Your Drogon Sightings

I might be misremembering but I thought it was pretty clear Tywin at the very least helped orchestrate the Red Wedding. Not in a "Send your kids and help a little" way, but in a "betray them and your word and murder them and I'll be your pal" kind of way.

Lejina_sl said:

Didnt Bolton himself put his sword thru Robb? It's been a while but I recall the swordsman saying something like Jayme sends his regards before giving him a taste of steel (prior Jayme had said to Bolton to say hi to Robb for him).

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Not sure if it's specified later, at the feast it says...

A man in dark armor and a pale pink cloak spotted with blood stepped up to Robb. "Jaime Lannister sends his regards." He thrust his longsword through her son's heart, and twisted.

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Doesn't specify Roose, and the last time he IS mentioned before it is excusing himself to go to the privy before it all sets off. Are the Boltons themselves the only ones that wear the pink cloak, or do their men also wear them?

It's Roose. How much of the plan was Tywin's, Walder's or Roose's idea isn't clear.

From what I recall, Tywin had a hand in orchestrating their death, but I don't believe he intended it to occur in that manner. Seems to be a recurring theme when Tywin orders people dead.

I think that Tywin probally set it up in such a way to destroy the Frey's reputation on purpose.

His father married off his sister to them because he was weak and Walder Frey asked, Tywin wasn't pleased at all that a top tier house was marrying into a house of elevated commoners who bred like rabbits giving a marriage to a lower down son little value. I mean he was so happy with them that he... gave the Riverlands to Petyr Baelish... a pimp who is even more common than the Freys.

I never really picked up on Tywin actively setting up the Freys, I figured he just didn't give a shit about them. That is a good catch. Yeah, Tywin absolutely set up the Red Wedding.

I don't get a lot of the hate for Catelyn. Yeah, she fucked up with Tyrion. Aside from that she was the only one giving Rob the advice he needed to hear. I don't see how you can possibly blame the Red Wedding on her.

Isn't pretty much everything Catlyn's fault since she set off the whole powder keg when she kidnapped Tyrion? That's why I've always disliked her.

chaos_sl said:

I don't see how you can possibly blame the Red Wedding on her.

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She released Jaime Lannister without any formal agreement. That was monumentally stupid, easily one of the dumbest decisions of the entire series. Jaime was Robb's one huge trump card, something that seriously constrained Tywin. Catelyn threw that away.

Now it is true that later on Robb wishes he had traded Jaime for the daughters, so he could have married them off somehow, but that is completely different from essentially letting Jaime "escape" without any agreement. Not only that, but how stupid, in a time when the riverlands was filled with robbers and mercenaries, to release him with only 2 guards. They were lucky that all Jaime did was lose a hand.

Everything is firmly Cersei's fault, causing others to push Bran Stark out of a window and assassinate Jon Arryn for a start - which is what led Catelyn down that path.

Chris_sl said:

Everything is firmly Cersei's fault, causing others to push Bran Stark out of a window

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Nah, we can still blame that one on Catelyn also! If she had been a better mother, she could have controlled Bran and made sure he wasn't constantly invading other peoples privacy.

cersei fancies herself as clever, but her schemes are pretty fucking obvious and halfbaked. i liked that one she had of getting the kingsguard to fuck margaery and plea guilty so he takes the black and then kills Jon Snow. that really went over well. catelyn is the one who goes on "feelings" she kidnapped tyrion because she was pissed off and it started a war. she took jaime from captivity because she missed her daughters and it cost her and her people's lives. not even thinking about how these things are going to pan out or plan for any problems. shes the one who put that "proper knight" shit in sansa's head.

gay to ask, but oh well..

any streams out there for tonight? ones that dont make me download/take surveys and dont work after I do?

mmmmm more game of thrones goodnessess

Maester Chuk_sl said:

catelyn was easily the worst character shown thus far.every fucking thing she did was wrong and retarded. even zombie catelyn is an utter fuckwit.
and yes, the Freys are permafucked.

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Seriously? Come on now.

I'm not saying Catelyn is awesome, she is horribly flawed and made some bad decisions. A lot of times, I can sympathise with why she wants to make those decisions, as she clearly is putting her family over other matters, like the horrible political consequences of her actions. Wanting to protect your family is hardly a vile desire.

She's a worthless, vapid cunt.

Hbo is free this weekend

McCheese_sl said:

Isn't pretty much everything Catlyn's fault since she set off the whole powder keg when she kidnapped Tyrion? That's why I've always disliked her.

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Isn't everything then Littlefingers fault since he did a improv bit about the dagger belonging to Tyrion.

Alex_sl said:

I think so. Went to the Warriors game tonight and we were talking about it amongst our four person group and the two groups beside and the people in front of us all started talking about this upcoming season. Never experienced this kind of anticipation for a show.

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I can't recall any either. Though my fiance makes a point for True Blood, which was pretty highly anticipated as well but not sure it's as grand a scale. TB seemed to be more niche.

Ko Dokomo_sl said:

Isn't everything then Littlefingers fault since he did a improv bit about the dagger belonging to Tyrion.

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This reminds me of one of my biggest issues with book purists: Their hatred of tv show littlefinger. They constantly mention how LF of the tv show is way too obvious, that he threatens people openly, something he never does in the book. They HATE the scene where he mocks Cersei and Cersei calls the guards on him. They see LF as this cold and calculating master planner.

This just is a complete misreading (to me) of his character. LF spends plenty of time in the book openly mocking and also threatening people. His interaction with Tyrion several times is essentially "yeah, im an ass, but you can't do shit about it". He does the same exact thing with Ned Stark, telling him not to trust him, "trolling" him also. He is able to do this because Tyrion and Ned are reluctant to use force, even though Tywin hinted to Tyrion to "heads/pikes" if people gave him trouble. We don't get to see any interaction between Cersei and LF in the books, but my feeling is he would have done that to her also and Cersei would have reacted much like she did in the tv show. LF also several times "rolls the dice" when he has pretty much zero idea what will result. The thing with the dagger and tyrion for example. He also bragged at court that he had bedded Catelyn Stark (this is possibly a lie by Tyrion, but from his POV it seems like it was true).

By my reading, LF is definitely a calculating master planner but he IS NOT cold about it. He is definitely driven by his emotions. His need to mock people (probably to cover his own insecurities), his need to show that he is the smartest person in the room, his obsession with Catelyn Stark, his need to muck stuff up. I think the tv show LF is doing a great job of portraying the character.

Maester Chuk_sl said:

Arya is starting to look like lindsay lohan. Poor girl

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For 15, she's starting to grow some Lohan size boobies too.. Makes me wonder if they'll have to put her in heavier layers to hide that if she has to pass for a boy again.

You're misunderstanding the argument. The argument isn't that he's cold and calculated, it's that he issubtleand calculated. That's hard to pull off on TV, but they've gone overboard with it imo.