I"d really like to see a skill based progression game without "xp = level" but where skills determine your level. Kind of like how Dungeon Seige does their leveling, just more indepth. In fact, a full 3D dungeon siege fantasy mmo would be pretty kick ass if they expanded on the skill systems and spell creation.Neric said:
Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling
- Thread starter Lord Thanos_foh
- Start date
I like what Amadeus was saying about the chances for the "really uber" quest reward, but something nice to consider with that would be some higher percentages the more times you completed a quest.
It would suck to do the quest 10 times (assuming it was a decently lengthy quest) and still get the same (if not worse) crappy staff. Maybe every time you complete it, the prefix percent goes up a little, as well as the bonus 0 percent. I don"t think you would ever want them up to 100% or so, but at least know your chances are getting better.
Another way to make quests vary more would be to have maybe a database of 20 total steps possible in X quest. Make the total number of steps the same for any given person, but make the steps be possibly different. If step 3 was "kill Evil_Boss_00", you could make a zone with three different hideouts where he could possibly be located.
Eventually, all possible quest locations / events would be posted just like original EQ epic quest walkthroughs, but at least it wouldn"t be EXACTLY the same. Heaven forbid evolving questlines either...
Transvaal
It would suck to do the quest 10 times (assuming it was a decently lengthy quest) and still get the same (if not worse) crappy staff. Maybe every time you complete it, the prefix percent goes up a little, as well as the bonus 0 percent. I don"t think you would ever want them up to 100% or so, but at least know your chances are getting better.
Another way to make quests vary more would be to have maybe a database of 20 total steps possible in X quest. Make the total number of steps the same for any given person, but make the steps be possibly different. If step 3 was "kill Evil_Boss_00", you could make a zone with three different hideouts where he could possibly be located.
Eventually, all possible quest locations / events would be posted just like original EQ epic quest walkthroughs, but at least it wouldn"t be EXACTLY the same. Heaven forbid evolving questlines either...
Transvaal
Hey curt,
I guess I"ll start by saying I"m really excited about GMG
I"m curious if you have any clear vision of how the community will interact with the game designers and developers. The only MMO I have really invested a lot of time in is EQ2, and those types of relationships tend to be extremely cliquey. For example, you will have developers forming relationships with specific guilds, leading to those guilds being copied to Beta to test specific raid content before it goes Live, or "chosen" community members from forums/fanfaire who have special behind-the-scenes avenues through which their opinion can be stated. Can you envision your self/team persuing relationships like these?
Looking forward to more information about your project(s)!
Best of luck,
Befallen.Snark
eternal-chaos.org
I guess I"ll start by saying I"m really excited about GMG
I"m curious if you have any clear vision of how the community will interact with the game designers and developers. The only MMO I have really invested a lot of time in is EQ2, and those types of relationships tend to be extremely cliquey. For example, you will have developers forming relationships with specific guilds, leading to those guilds being copied to Beta to test specific raid content before it goes Live, or "chosen" community members from forums/fanfaire who have special behind-the-scenes avenues through which their opinion can be stated. Can you envision your self/team persuing relationships like these?
Looking forward to more information about your project(s)!
Best of luck,
Befallen.Snark
eternal-chaos.org
I won"t speak to specifics, or promise a utopian resolution to the community stuff.
What I will tell you is that a few of the people in GMG, that are slated to handle the planning, design, construction, and support of our communities are well respected and well known in the industry, to companies and gamers alike.
Our intent is the production of a title that launches globally, and support of a global community as well. Not 4 guys in a room with their thoughts on what they think the Asian, or Italian, or German community wants, but specific people tasked with the support of gaming communities outside the english speaking customer base.
Will we play favorites? No. Will we search far and wide for players and player bases that offer us awesome alpha and beta testing audiences? Yes.
Our goal won"t be to find cliques or invite friends, it will be to make sure that on launch day our game is debugged and as friggin cool as can be to play. To do that it takes players input in some instances to make it happen.
What I will tell you is that a few of the people in GMG, that are slated to handle the planning, design, construction, and support of our communities are well respected and well known in the industry, to companies and gamers alike.
Our intent is the production of a title that launches globally, and support of a global community as well. Not 4 guys in a room with their thoughts on what they think the Asian, or Italian, or German community wants, but specific people tasked with the support of gaming communities outside the english speaking customer base.
Will we play favorites? No. Will we search far and wide for players and player bases that offer us awesome alpha and beta testing audiences? Yes.
Our goal won"t be to find cliques or invite friends, it will be to make sure that on launch day our game is debugged and as friggin cool as can be to play. To do that it takes players input in some instances to make it happen.
Thanks for your quick and informative response
I"ve read through a few forum threads (here and elsewhere) concerning GMG, and usually I do my browsing at 3AM so I apologize if I missed this being answered, but I am curious: If you were approached by SOE (much like sigil was) into the development process of your game X, would youconsider(key word) signing on under the SOE "label" and the competitive "station pass" system?
I know little to nothing about the mechanics of "profit sharing" so I am not sure if the two options are compatible, this is just a hypothetical scenario
I"ve read through a few forum threads (here and elsewhere) concerning GMG, and usually I do my browsing at 3AM so I apologize if I missed this being answered, but I am curious: If you were approached by SOE (much like sigil was) into the development process of your game X, would youconsider(key word) signing on under the SOE "label" and the competitive "station pass" system?
I know little to nothing about the mechanics of "profit sharing" so I am not sure if the two options are compatible, this is just a hypothetical scenario
My main was a rogue, so my epic magically appeared in my inventory upon its release.Neric said:
GMG has spoken with about 12 different companies to date. SOE is one of them. I have a very long and very good relationship with SOE and the people there so that"s a good thing.snarkteeth said:
I can"t speak to specifics on the final deal because we don"t have one yet. What we are doing is working with capital I have put in to this point, and we will continue to do so until we arrive at a deal that works for all parties involved on many levels.
The beauty of this is that we have something so special, so different and so unique, something we know and they know has never been done before in so many ways, that we are extremely comfortable in allowing the business aspects of the final deal to fall into place as they need to. THere is no pressure to get something done for the sake of needing money.
One major aspect of the business at GMG is the 50/50 profit share with the employees. Any deal done at this point will have an impact on that plan and it"s my responsibility to every person working with/for me to see that any deal done at this stage is done so in the best interest of the people in GMG on the back end where the 50/50 plan comes to fruition.
Since it was mentioned, I"ll take the opportunity to lay it down as plainly as I can:Ngruk said:
Donothype the game early.
Between Project Offset (working title), Vanguard, and Spore I have become frustrated with the way developers handle their hype machine. If a game is hyped early, followed by 6+ months of zero news, the fanbase shrinks considerably with the sense of getting the shaft. As you may or may not know, it"s one hell of an insulting experience to show loyalty and dedication towards a product, only to be given the cold shoulder.
If you feel like you won"t be able to keep fans" hunger for new info sated consistently (or atleastkeep in contact with them), just don"t say anything. Wait until you"re ready to take on the task.
Cliff Notes version: Don"t pull a Peter Molyneux.
The biggest mistake in the industry is overhype. Fact of the matter is has there been an incredible game released in the last 10 years that you don"t know about? Great games get known, hype or not.
On the hype meter I see it as a 1-10 system. Most companies now hit 10 6 months or more before launch. The goal here is to stay where we are now, which is about the 1 area, and hit 10 on launch day.
No need to tell you how revolutionary or great it is, if it is it will tell you that itself.
On the hype meter I see it as a 1-10 system. Most companies now hit 10 6 months or more before launch. The goal here is to stay where we are now, which is about the 1 area, and hit 10 on launch day.
No need to tell you how revolutionary or great it is, if it is it will tell you that itself.
Well, I believe ideally you"d want to hit 10 at a point before launch date, so that there will be enough people when the game launches that you"re able to form groups
So we know it"s a fantasy themed game.
I don"t care much (at this level) of who writes the lore or who draws the concept art. Who is in charge of game design, instead? Because that"s where the match is going to be played. It"s a game and it needs gaming sensibility.
That"s what is relevant in a start up project. The ideas you bring along, the vision and, consequently, if you have the numbers to pull it off.
Right now we are in the stage: "we are making something cool, but we cannot say what it is". Too easy.
What about giving an idea? For example, level treadmill or skill based?
That would be already something.
Then I can be skeptical because it feels not different from those hollywood actors opening restaurants, just in an extravagant new flavor. I won"t doubt of the passion, but creating a MMO is first and foremost shaping up a world and dedicate yourself to it. I"m not so sure that Salvatore or McFarlane want to sacrifice other projects to concentrate on this one. A MMO isn"t something you do in your spare time and quit after a couple of years. It"s a marathon. It requires complete, total dedication and the desire to develop a culture of MMO design that is HARD to find within the genre, even more so outside.
This industry needs new blood because what is sure is that we won"t see anything innovating or interesting from the current "players" (meaning those already in the genre, like SOE, Mythic, Funcom, Turbine, Cryptic and so on). But I would suggest everyone to readDamion Schubert"s speech, because there"s a kind of stupid innovation of which noone feels the need of.
And the fantasy genre has still A LOT to say. Because till today we have only seen *one way* to portray it, which is extremely superficial and simplistic. The fantasy myth has a lot more to deliver than a power progression, more or less varied, more or less long.
You CAN innovate without stepping in other genres because till now we only had ONE point of view on the fantasy genre, cloned between every other game. Games have transformed the fantasy genre into a one dimensional thing. But the fantasy genre isn"t one dimensional.
Maybe someone, at some point, will wake up and grab the only licence who is appropriate for an online world. Stormbringer, Elric and the multiverse. I know I did as a starting point for mydream mmorpg.
I don"t care much (at this level) of who writes the lore or who draws the concept art. Who is in charge of game design, instead? Because that"s where the match is going to be played. It"s a game and it needs gaming sensibility.
That"s what is relevant in a start up project. The ideas you bring along, the vision and, consequently, if you have the numbers to pull it off.
Right now we are in the stage: "we are making something cool, but we cannot say what it is". Too easy.
What about giving an idea? For example, level treadmill or skill based?
That would be already something.
Then I can be skeptical because it feels not different from those hollywood actors opening restaurants, just in an extravagant new flavor. I won"t doubt of the passion, but creating a MMO is first and foremost shaping up a world and dedicate yourself to it. I"m not so sure that Salvatore or McFarlane want to sacrifice other projects to concentrate on this one. A MMO isn"t something you do in your spare time and quit after a couple of years. It"s a marathon. It requires complete, total dedication and the desire to develop a culture of MMO design that is HARD to find within the genre, even more so outside.
This industry needs new blood because what is sure is that we won"t see anything innovating or interesting from the current "players" (meaning those already in the genre, like SOE, Mythic, Funcom, Turbine, Cryptic and so on). But I would suggest everyone to readDamion Schubert"s speech, because there"s a kind of stupid innovation of which noone feels the need of.
And the fantasy genre has still A LOT to say. Because till today we have only seen *one way* to portray it, which is extremely superficial and simplistic. The fantasy myth has a lot more to deliver than a power progression, more or less varied, more or less long.
You CAN innovate without stepping in other genres because till now we only had ONE point of view on the fantasy genre, cloned between every other game. Games have transformed the fantasy genre into a one dimensional thing. But the fantasy genre isn"t one dimensional.
Maybe someone, at some point, will wake up and grab the only licence who is appropriate for an online world. Stormbringer, Elric and the multiverse. I know I did as a starting point for mydream mmorpg.
Ugh, Salvatore. Did he get better after the Dark Elf Trilogy? I read Exile and Sojourn which were (IMO!) no better than half the fan-fic out there (emo munchkin character included.) After that, I couldn"t stomach the thought of reading more of his angsty, repetitive, totally predictable writing. Maybe he got better.
McFarlane... honestly I never saw people"s gripes with him. I really like his artwork and enjoyed reading Spawn (stopped reading around issue 80 for no particular reason.) I heard he was an ass, but why all the hate for him?
Anywho, good luck with the game and all that. Whatever you do, make sure to have a deep crafting system... hell, just steal SW:G"s! Noone will notice!
McFarlane... honestly I never saw people"s gripes with him. I really like his artwork and enjoyed reading Spawn (stopped reading around issue 80 for no particular reason.) I heard he was an ass, but why all the hate for him?
Anywho, good luck with the game and all that. Whatever you do, make sure to have a deep crafting system... hell, just steal SW:G"s! Noone will notice!
Damn, no fooling you guys.....Abalieno said:
Couldn"t agree with you more. I knew when this company started that regardless of how incredible Todds art is, or how unreal the story is that R.A. creates, if we don"t get the true leaders, within the industry, to lead this studio, then it won"t matter because the game will suck.Abalieno said:
As you can imagine this is not a large industry. The people that are coming to GMG to fill these roles, most of them are at work for other companies committed to other things right now. When they do make the transition there will be announcements made and I think at that time people will realize that talen wise, we nailed it. I can say this much, I had a short list of dream candidates to run my studio, hoping to get 1 of them. At the end of the day GMG got 3. Even better is the fact that these people are excited about working with and for each other. THeir resumes are unreal, and their accomplishments in producing and shipping titles is every bit as awesome as the creative talent here.
Agreed.Abalieno said:
Ya and I apologize (Steve you were right. What I will not do is come here and tell you on a weekly basis how awesome what we are doing is, that"s a no win for either side. I am sure my enthusiasm will spill out and I will need to keep it in check, but I guess just letting you folks know that most of us are hardcore gamers is enough to inform you that we know the MMO space and what"s in it, and aren"t designing to get away from it, but to take what works now and implement new stuff we think is cool as hell.Abalieno said:
This is the no win really. I can"t start getting into this because I"ve seen what happens. We tell you X, Y and Z, and some design problem arises and X becomes A and Z becomes B and now there are people saying "but you promised us X!!". Then it becomes putting out fires, which does no one any good. Also it makes a company appear unfocused and unprepared, neither of which is the case here.Abalieno said:
Abalieno said:
I can give you my word, and theirs, that both of them are 100% committed to this GMG title in every way possible, every way. They are in true lead positions and fully committed to making this what we want it to be. We are talking about a very long production cycle. That might not mean much but it"s all I have for you. This is not 3 rich guys saying "Cool, let"s make an MMO and make some money". This is 1 guy (me), tapping 2 incredibly talented people in their respective fields to lead truly integral parts of MMO design.Abalieno said:
Abalieno said:
Agreed.Abalieno said:
Agreed.Abalieno said:
Abalieno said:
I am not sure I will ever get this. I can buy the "I don"t like his style" argument, that happens. What I don"t get is the browbeating of someone who"s got more talent in his craft than you, me, and anyone else on this board by an amount none of us could measure.Malakie Torsade said:
First off R.A. is good people, great people, which matters more than a little to me. Second, this guy has sold over 15 million books in the U.S. alone, so someone thinks he"s good, alot of someones.
I am going to defend him because he"s a friend, but I am also defending him because I am a fan, was long before I met him. I love his style, though I will admit i have to slow down to follow his combat narratives! Any writer that can create emotions in the reader when it comes to his characters has talent, and I think R.A. can create iconic figures as well as anyone I have ever read.
You heard he was an ass from whom? There isn"t a person on this board that knows Todd personally. What you know of Todd is what you read and what you see, period. I know from growing up in public that that"s the absolute worst way to form opinions of people, but I also understand that without anything else out there, it"s all you have.Malakie Torsade said:
,
Todd is smart as hell, and his talent is unquestioned. This guy has drawn some things that will take your breath away. His commitment, and R.A.s, are there and that"s all I ask. When all is said and done I think there will be a few people rethinking their opinions as they get to know these guys, and you will get to know them beyond what you know now.
Malakie Torsade said:
Or maybe it"s about the same old faces hiding behind a new mask, with empty promises, waiting for the first occasion to jump ship again.Ngruk said:
This industry is highly incestuous and it isn"t a good thing as noone is responsible of anything and people tend to flee as soon as things get problematic and don"t contribute positively anymore to that "celebrity" that many of those veteran names chase.
I"d like to see new blood. Fresh ideas from those who have solid arguments against current MMOs and have solid ideas to push them forward. Those who don"t hide. Some fighting spirits who want to dare, who want the challenge, and aren"t easily contented. Not those who had already their possibilities to do something and did nothing.
It is a big risk, but, as always, it can make the difference.
While it is necessary to get things right in particular on the technical side, as you could heap good or bad ideas for years, but at the end what matters is the execution.
For a new studio it"s the hardest part. Finding synergy between the team. Blizzard made a great game also because they had a LONG story behind them. They didn"t made a great game all at the sudden. The great game was a destination, not their start.
This is also why I"m always strongly skeptical when I hear of new studios being formed. It happens often and in nearly all cases it doesn"t end well. People come and go, always looking to make their own resume more impressive. It"s hard to make a team that isn"t just an aggregation of "big names". Working as a whole, for a shared vision, that"s what is hard to see. And often those big names are the reason why project fails, because they cannot agree on anything, and don"t want their names to be associated with just one thing.
It can take a few months to assemble a good team. But it takes YEARS to make that team work like a team.
Is GMG a comet in this industry or something that is going to stay? That"s the point.
I doubt they are licencing Moorcock when they got SalvatoreCamerous said:
He quoted my whole post and commented some parts.
Neither, it was just left as part of his quoted message and I had nothing to say about it.Camerous said:
Ok I will bite, what the hell does this mean??Abalieno said:
I"ve bitten again, no clue what this really means......Abalieno said:
Why do you want someone with solid arguments against current MMOs? There"s over 15 million players playing MMO"s, they work, some more than others. Certainly room for new blood in anything, as long as it"s creative envelope pushing new blood and not new for the sake of not being old....Abalieno said:
And as far as the last sentence, who had possibilities, as you put it, and did nothing? Do you have any concept of what it takes to actually get an MMO to beta? The monumental task to create something of this scale? Even the simplest MMO is a massive project requiring a very significant amount of money.
What? New blood? Na, no risk at all if the talent and passion is there imo.Abalieno said:
What does that mean? Heap good ideas? Bottom line is the game has to be good.Abalieno said:
I disagree on both counts. The hardest part for me is not the synergy. When you find incredible talent, it"s usually attached to passion, when you can put something together that attracts talented people with passion the synergy shows up.Abalieno said:
Blizzard made a great game, they could have screwed it up because under that analogy Blizzard had that long story, which I think you meant good story, but under that analogy SWG and LoTR are impossible to screw up. SWG had 30 years of great story behind it, LoTR a centuries worth.
Story and a good history are nice, but that doesn"t mean you can"t screw them up.
I may be in the dark on this one but do you work in the industry? What I know about it is that "working" at a new studio doesn"t mean jack. Your resume contains 22 different studios, you got problems. In this business, imo, the only thing that matters on your resume is "TITLES SHIPPED" and correspondingly your jobs/responsibilities on those titles. If you don"t have titles shipped your resume gets pushed far to the back by others that do.Abalieno said:
I disagree. Chemistry within the framework of a team is created by the team. Winning in baseball creates chemistry. Combine winning with passion and you get World Series Rings. In the real world, to me anyway, winning would be labled achieving, and how that"s handled by the people in charge can foster and enhance team chemistry on a much quicker basis.Abalieno said:
Comets blaze trails right? They travel far, fast and with alot of splendor. People strain to see them, they are epic events in and of themselves I will take the comet thing and the fact that we"ll most likely be around a good long while.Abalieno said:
I think he is assuming you are hiring the same people that gave us games like SWG, EQ2 (before the massive changes), Shadowbane and countless other steaming piles of crap over the last 6 or 7 years. I have no idea either way, but I *think* that is what he was hinting at.