Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling

Well said Gaereth and I think that analogy is very useful for this topic.

Gaereth said:

If 38 were to get 25% of Blizz"s initial numbers and 25% of Blizz"s growth per year then they would still be a resounding success. Hell, if they were to get 10% if would still be a damn popular game. What if a couple of other companies were to bring out a good game that got 10% as well? Suddenly, simply because of the options, Blizz"s market share wouldn"t be as large.

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It doesn"t work on assumption. And you"ve included a ton. First, you assume the market will forever freeze at whatever number its currently at, and 38 will simply chip away at that number. Second, you assume that any "new" gamers will automatically desire another fantasy game. And third, you assume that other companies would be willing to take the substantial risk of trying to push into that bracket of the market.

What you are saying, to use the car analogy, is that Japan should have never tried to sell their cars in the US simple because the market was already dominated by other cars. Thats pretty silly isn"t it.

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Thats not what i"m saying at all. What I AM saying however, is that it would be useless for a Japanese manufacturer to try and compete in the US market by building Chevrolets, Chryslers, and Fords, instead of Nissans and Toyotas.

ShroudedMist said:

Those examples are pretty classic examples of heroes Grave. What exactly is your point by mentioning them?

Every game is ultimately about you being the hero even if the idea of a hero within a story is to ultimately be something considered evil by ordinary people. Noone wants to play a game where you"re an average joe doing average things.

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I actually had quite a few friend in EQ that didnt care for raiding and were totally ok with being an average joe.

I dont know kcxiv. Anyone able to wield a sword or cast spells and kill a goblin or an orc is hardly your average joe.

I think there is plenty of heroic gameplay to be developed within the low/mid levels of these games that is simply skipped in an attempt to garner the raiding crowd.

Its still just a car. It does the same exact things the other cars do.

A Toyota is a car, a Chevy is a car.
A WOW is a fantasy ip, a 38s is a fantasy ip.

It is a direct correlation.

Gaereth said:

Its still just a car. It does the same exact things the other cars do.

A Toyota is a car, a Chevy is a car.
A WOW is a fantasy ip, a 38s is a fantasy ip.

It is a direct correlation.

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Yep. And I"d personally rather drive a Dark Elf instead of a Night Elf. Thanks.

Gaereth said:

Its still just a car. It does the same exact things the other cars do.

A Toyota is a car, a Chevy is a car.
A WOW is a fantasy ip, a 38s is a fantasy ip.

It is a direct correlation.

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sheesh........
EXACTLY. Nothing more than more of the same. And already done to death.

Define drive and can you provide an example of said dark elf??

Rayne said:

sheesh........
EXACTLY. Nothing more than more of the same. And already done to death.

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umm...in one post you say they are different yet now you say they are the same??

I daresay you are more than a bit confused.

Gaereth said:

umm...in one post you say they are different yet now you say they are the same??

I daresay you are more than a bit confused.

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He just doesn"t want to play a fantasy MMO. Dare I say "maybe Curt"s game isn"t for you"?

He wants a sci-fi MMORPG which I can understand at this stage of the game. All this hair splitting is getting a little retarded imho.

Gaereth said:

umm...in one post you say they are different yet now you say they are the same??

I daresay you are more than a bit confused.

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LOL.... YOU don"t understand your own analogy, but "i"m" the one who"s confused

Japanese car company: hey! lets build Chevy"s and sell them in the US market!

38 Studios: hey! lets build a "fantasy" game and sell it in the sector of the market Blizzard currently dominates by a ratio of over 50:1!

You gettin" it now?

tikkus said:

I think you"re dumb.

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Just quoting this because it fits. At first I was giving you the benefit of the doubt but that"s gone.

ShroudedMist said:

He wants a sci-fi MMORPG which I can understand at this stage of the game. All this hair splitting is getting a little retarded imho.

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NOW you"re gettin" it. Almost.

Its doesn"t necessarily HAVE to be sci-fi. Sure, i"d prefer it. But I wouldn"t limit it to sci-fi specifically. Historical, post-apoc, etc... ANYTHING but yet another fantasy game.

Rayne said:

. . .if you COULD play Sauron"s minions against Rohan"s horsemen AFTER the fact, would you? I have no doubts that many most certainly would. But its pretty much a given that if you screw your fans out of what they really wanted, or perhaps even expected in the beginning, you blew it big time. Do you really think this genre will be any more forgiving of a completely new IP? Thats the thing. They get ONE shot at living up to the expectations of potential players. And ONLY one.. . ".

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If they did revamp LOTRO away from it"s niche to a more pvp type game, yeah I might give it another look because it in essence becomes a completely different, and hence new, game. And you are right regarding a completely new IP, they really do only get one shot at it.

Rayne said:

. . .

Thats not what i"m saying at all. What I AM saying however, is that it would be useless for a Japanese manufacturer to try and compete in the US market by building Chevrolets, Chryslers, and Fords, instead of Nissans and Toyotas.

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That is an excellent point.

Maxxius said:

If they did revamp LOTRO away from it"s niche to a more pvp type game, yeah I might give it another look because it in essence becomes a completely different, and hence new, game. And you are right regarding a completely new IP, they really do only get one shot at it.

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Again, i"d like to stress that i"m really not trying to be a naysayer here. I really hope they do well.

But when you"re literally considering taking on Blizzard, I think the chance for success would be much greater for an IP approaching that task with an equally fun and accessible mmo in a different sector of the market. We"re not talking about EQ, DAoC, Lineage, or whatever high profile game you can think of. We"re talking about Blizzard"s Warcraft. A deeply seeded, well known IP that took the fantasy sector with such force, it currently holds more than 50% of the overall market share.

Build whatever you want. But avoid the sector that Blizzard has a pretty good deathgrip on, and won"t be easily persuaded to loosen any time soon. Everyone knows that a StarCraft mmo WILL eventually come to fruition. Its inevitable. If you really want to have a meaningful effect on Blizzard"s market share, beat them to the punch. BEFORE they launch yet another well known IP, in yet another major sector of the market space, AND bring even more millions of gamers into the gamespace. It takes building a WoW calibre game, every bit as fun, and every bit as accessible. But if you do it in the fantasy sector, you"re in for a challenge beyond the capacity for reasonable comprehension, because Blizzard will certainly dust your ass with the next expansion that not only includes what they intended to add anyway, but most likely EVERYTHING that made your game cost them market share.

Sci-fi would be a good way to go. But I would certainly explore other sectors with equal enthusiasm. As it stands, my greatest interests are in SOE"s The Agency, and Stargate Worlds. Stargate not so much, mainly because i"ve a feeling it will be riddled with fantasy aspects. I"m hoping they prove me wrong though.

Your suggestion for a company to differentiate themself is pointless. WoW would"ve done well even with a Western theme because Blizzard introduced good game mechanics. Choosing a setting is a less relevant way of making yourself different than choosing game mechanics that make playing a new mmo different and even more fun than WoW.

mutantmagnet said:

Your suggestion for a company to differentiate themself is pointless. WoW would"ve done well even with a Western theme because Blizzard introduced good game mechanics. Choosing a setting is a less relevant way of making yourself different than choosing game mechanics that make playing a new mmo different and even more fun than WoW.

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Well, you"re certainly entitled to that opinion. It doesn"t mean I have to agree. Nor does it "prove" that my suggestion is "pointless". Try reading the last few pages rather than just the last three posts. The "IP" point has been argued already. Extensively.

mutantmagnet said:

Your suggestion for a company to differentiate themself is pointless. WoW would"ve done well even with a Western theme because Blizzard introduced good game mechanics. Choosing a setting is a less relevant way of making yourself different than choosing game mechanics that make playing a new mmo different and even more fun than WoW.

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Nah, not true. The interest built off it"s battlenet products, despite what others might say. Kiddies wanted to blast each other in a MMO setting instead of the B-net format.

No argument here, however, that S38 has a tough nut to crack but they are committed to a fantasy MMO, so that"s it.