Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling

Draegan_sl

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Lonin said:
Blah Blah Blah
You"re forgetting of course that they have Blackguard, and that changeseverything.

Anyway, they havn"t been hyping anything up at all. We don"t even know the name of the game. What they HAVE been hyping, and I wouldn"t even call it that, so let me rephrase. What Curt has been excited about is the people he has hired. First he has a great writer in Salvatore. Second he has a great artist in Todd. Third Curt has his own experience. He knows what sucks, at least to him, so you have an enthusiast making games. Hopefully what he thinks is fun, is fun for a lot of other people.

Hopefully the talent he"s hired, and his motivation are enough to see this game succeed.

This is just my guess. As far as establishing IPs, releasing other games is not the only way of establishing an IP. Can anyone here tell me another form of media that establishes setting and content.

Come one now, think long and hard.
 

Draegan_sl

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Flight said:
iii) hooks - it should be a mantra for game creators. Forget a mission statement, fill your game with fun hooks. The loot system, character creation and development, the quest system, your solo play options, your group play options, your raid system. Its got to be immediately accessible, its all got to be fun and its got to make people want to keep doing it.
First your posts are hard to edit to quote properly, you hit enter way, way to many times! Stop!

I"d like to add that assuming good art, animations, gameplay, setting etc, all those mechanics, lets say they"re good, you need that "something" that makes a player want to get that next level, spend just 2 more hours before bed to get that last bit so he can get his new ability or wield a new weapon.

Another question to ask in a small regards to the previous statement is, do you go the WOW route or WAR route to ability ranks. WAR your abilities gain in power as you level automatically, each level. You train the ability once and you"re done. WOW, as everyone should know, you buy new ranks every X levels.

Which is better? Does it matter? I always liked how in WOW once I hit a certain level I see a good jump in damage, which always motivated me to play more to get that next level.
 

Blitzspear_foh

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Draegan said:
This is just my guess. As far as establishing IPs, releasing other games is not the only way of establishing an IP. Can anyone here tell me another form of media that establishes setting and content.

Come one now, think long and hard.
I always enjoy reading your posts Draegan.

I?ll take a guess that you mean by comic and book format, since McFarlane was doing that with the shelved UO2 anyway, and Salvatore has already written books based on established MMO?s. Both comic, and fantasy novels, appeal in varying degrees to the 16-24 male market that are the bulk of MMO gamers. The buzz they generate at comic, fantasy conventions by name placement alone would be very easy to capitalize on with further online content updates and forum interaction.

Sales for both products wouldn?t be high, average Salvatore book sales aren?t what they used to be, and the average comic is even less. But that wouldn?t be the point, the brand entering a healthy spread of the public domain would be.

Saying that, this is the reason I don?t think the game (which is so far away that even commenting on its future is ridiculous) will ever attract anything more than a respectable subscription base.

This has probably already been said, sorry for repeating. But from a marketing perspective, you?re hitting the demographic World of Warcraft has already got in the palm of their hands. Salvatore, and McFarlane?s work is very much a domain that offers nothing Warcraft doesn?t already have in spades. Frankly, no matter how good the game is, or how much ?cool? it has, you?ll only attract the jaded and those prone to flip-flop from game to game.

Warcraft even has a healthy grasp on the female section of online gamers, granted not as much as some of the other online games. But really, the only way to attract a higher percentage of female gamers would be to prioritise the game dynamic as a cosmetic simulation with a secondary priority on social interaction.

Blizzard must jump for joy every time a new western MMO is on the horizon; it only boosts their numbers from the campaign blitz. Anyway, if that wasn?t what you mean... then I don?t know.

With Warhammer, and Warcraft, both ability systems are far too similar to even matter in the grand scheme of things to make a difference. To something you said on another forum, Public Quests are cool, but they are flawed because they require more than one person on quite a few of the stages which have no time limit. Without a limit on time, you can be stuck without being able to get any faction until server reset, or if you get lucky and happen to find someone near your levelling range that?ll group up and help out. After Warcraft, quite a few people are only interested in solo?ing while levelling up. PQ?s work quite well while the levelling rush is ongoing, but fails miserably when only a handful of people are near your levelling range and spread out all across the world.
 

Fog_foh

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Do you guys really think that having an established IP makes a big difference? It seems to me that there is a huge amount of word of mouth in the MMO community, and the better games rise to the top. There are certainly a zillion "big IP" games that enjoyed fairly little success due to being mediocre games on some level, like LOTRO and SWG.
 

Cadrid_foh

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The problem with using an established IP is how critical fans will be with every little change to the world you make. It can make things incredibly difficult for designers because they aren"t allowed to innovate or expand upon the brand as much as they would like to. With a new IP, however, you"re working with a clean slate and, given proper leadership and talent, working with more possibility for creativity.
 

Maxxius_foh

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By "establishing an IP" I would define it as producing other things besides the MMO, such as consol/pc games. Doing so is cheaper, quicker, there is always a market for them, you can actually make millions off them and *gasp* help meet payroll, and you begin to create an interest.

Of course you run the risk that people will just yawn, and in which case your MMO is already in trouble before launch.

But in the end, when all is said and done, the game mechanics will be the deciding factor. And tho while some of you are already predicting doom, despite the fact that as far as we know nothing of substance even exists, all we can do at this point is wait and hope for some tidbits from Curt to keep our interest going.
 

Maxxius_foh

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Blitzspear said:
. . .
Saying that, this is the reason I don?t think the game (which is so far away that even commenting on its future is ridiculous) will ever attract anything more than a respectable subscription base. . .
You acknowledge how ridiculous it would be, yet you still say it. Based on what we know, it is absolutely silly to even make the assertion. Yet you still do it.

EQ thought that it would always remain "king of the hill" at one point too. They (I forget exactly who) even posted saying how people kept claiming how game "so and so" would be the EQ-killer, yet despite launches of new games, EQ subscriptions did not decline dramatically. Until WOW.

WOW might feel the same way now too. And what will kill WOW in the end I submit, is boredom due to their snail"s pace at releasing substantial new content. And the lesson Curt I hope is learning is to make sure his product can be expanded easily (like having the ability to readily generate a ton of pvp map variants if they use a battleground system like WOW).
 

Rayne_foh

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I"d be all for seeing a new IP in the gamespace, but I don"t think i"ll be overly excited if its based on the same old fantasy stuff. I"m pretty tired of orcs, elves, and dwarves.

I won"t say a fresh IP wouldn"t make it in the genre. I just don"t have a lot of faith in "a new way" of doing orcs, elves, and dwarves bringing in anything fresh.
 

Cadrid_foh

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Maxxius said:
By "establishing an IP" I would define it as producing other things besides the MMO, such as consol/pc games.
For better or worse, 38 Studios has decided to delve straight into the MMO market, with other game genres relegated to their peripheral vision (no pun intended). I recall Curt (or maybe it was Brett) commenting on how they would offer a prelude to their MMO in the form of novels/comics to help introduce people to the New World, then continue to utilize a wide range of mediums for people to experience their game in.
 

Lonin_foh

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Aye, I think a novel series and/or a comic book series prior to the game release is almost a foregone conclusion at this point. I"d also speculate that a movie is also on the blueprint, although maybe very far in the future. I believe Curt has commented that they want their IP to be in all forms of popular media.

Draegan said:
You"re forgetting of course that they have Blackguard, and that changes everything.
I try and forget about Blackguard, else any hope I have for the game will immediately be extinguished.
 

Roa_foh

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Cadrid said:
then continue to utilize a wide range of mediums for people to experience their game in.
I sort of wonder why SOE hasn"t tried this with Everquest (other than Champions of Norrath). Wouldn"t you think an Everquest RTS of some kind increase their potential playerbase?
 

Cadrid_foh

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Roa said:
I sort of wonder why SOE hasn"t tried this with Everquest (other than Champions of Norrath). Wouldn"t you think an Everquest RTS of some kind increase their potential playerbase?
It"s not leeching off the IP that they (38 Studios) are interested in as much as expanding the game and the world using cellphone technology, books/comics, movies, online video and the like. I wouldn"t be the least bit surprised to find their IP used in an offline gaming format (be it to provide a prelude to the actual game, filling dialogue or what-have-you), but I suspect they would rather take advantage of the monolithic talents of Salvatore and McFarlane before they start releasing other games.
 

Blitzspear_foh

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Maxxius said:
You acknowledge how ridiculous it would be, yet you still say it. Based on what we know, it is absolutely silly to even make the assertion. Yet you still do it.

EQ thought that it would always remain "king of the hill" at one point too. They (I forget exactly who) even posted saying how people kept claiming how game "so and so" would be the EQ-killer, yet despite launches of new games, EQ subscriptions did not decline dramatically. Until WOW.

WOW might feel the same way now too. And what will kill WOW in the end I submit, is boredom due to their snail"s pace at releasing substantial new content. And the lesson Curt I hope is learning is to make sure his product can be expanded easily (like having the ability to readily generate a ton of pvp map variants if they use a battleground system like WOW).
Yes, I did. And yes it is completely ridiculous. But hey I was bored, so I let my imagination go for it.

While true, Warcraft will eventually lose its ?King of the Hill? status. Maybe 38 Studios will be the one to take its place, or maybe, it?ll be the new Blizzard MMO which at the moment has the same amount of information released about it as Copernicus does. Strange how they might line up to be running together huh?
 

Draegan_sl

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I think the potential for all AAA MMOs in the future is large. The potential space for a really good game (yeah, yeah "done right") is just waiting for someone to take it. If you take the aspects of WOW (philosophies, not features) and use those to create a game you have a much large potential audience. Before WOW was released you had a small user space and had to attract millions into the MMO genre. You now have those people here and if you market a game appropriately, you might have a success on your hands.

What other major release have you seen advertising outside forums, internet ads and gaming publications? I haven"t seen any. I would imagine a great many WOW players (You know, those casual guys that don"t read forums at all and barely play the internet) won"t touch (or even know about) another MMO until they see a commercial for it on network TV, see an ad in a popular magazine. Or see huge promo at Walmart with big cardboard cutouts.

I"ll give you an example. My father and I have been playing RPGs forever, ever since Ultima III on our Apple ][e+. I introduced him to WOW 3 years ago. He"s as casual as you can get. I don"t think he has done 80% of the instances in the game. He likes crafting, alting, questing, soloing and helping out some real life friends he plays with. I tell him about all the games I beta test and all the other games released. He always asks, "Is it as good as WOW?" I tell him the good and the bad and it always comes down to solo-ability, what can you do without raiding or forced grouping etc.

It"s that market you have to target, in my opinion, because the majority of people in the MMO sphere wants that at it"s very base. Of course many people group, raid, pvp, but that solo-ability and ease of play/entry is the base that gets you players.

If Curt wants numbers, thats the base of the game he needs to create, but then add complexity on top of that at whatever level of the game to placate all the different play styles.

Fuck, what a derail. I need some caffeine.
 

Maxxius_foh

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Rayne said:
I"d be all for seeing a new IP in the gamespace, but I don"t think i"ll be overly excited if its based on the same old fantasy stuff. I"m pretty tired of orcs, elves, and dwarves. . . .
Well to be honest I wouldn"t mind something fresh too. But at this point I just view these new games as new content that I don"t get from WOW.
 

Maxxius_foh

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Blitzspear said:
. . . While true, Warcraft will eventually lose its ?King of the Hill? status. Maybe 38 Studios will be the one to take its place, or maybe, it?ll be the new Blizzard MMO. . .
Actually that is a strong possibility that WOW replaces itself (or increases the gaming space more) with another product based off Starcraft (a non-fantasy game too).
 

Draegan_sl

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Maxxius said:
Actually that is a strong possibility that WOW replaces itself (or increases the gaming space more) with another product based off Starcraft (a non-fantasy game too).
That"s where the safe money is. But there is a small chance that it could backfire where people see a new game with just the same old shit and finally get tired of it and it"ll flop. Small chance, but it think it"s there.
 

Ngruk_foh

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Maxxius said:
Well to be honest I wouldn"t mind something fresh too. But at this point I just view these new games as new content that I don"t get from WOW.
Definitely one of the larger challenges facing anyone making an MMO now, and in the future. Making a game that not onlyappearsto be different, but actually is.

Making a game that feels like WoW with different content may "work" for some, but that"s, imo, aiming to just make a game that sells "well" or gets a decent base of subscribers.