Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling

You were getting the same whine about dead pve servers too. But the fact remains about half the playing population is on a pvp server. Check the high/low stats Blizzard lists. And on the PVE servers you have people, umm, pvping too. Remove it to a sole PVE game and you darn well know the subs would crash.

And please don"t misunderstand me. I am NOT saying I don"t want PVE. I do. I want that as an alternate play route. I don"t want a pure pve game nor a pure pvp game. But I want the pvp part to be the real draw.

Maxxius said:

You were getting the same whine about dead pve servers too. But the fact remains about half the playing population is on a pvp server. Check the high/low stats Blizzard lists. And on the PVE servers you have people, umm, pvping too. Remove it to a sole PVE game and you darn well know the subs would crash.

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What do you mean, they would crash? You mean they would crash to five million instead of ten million? I don"t dispute that. That still means that there"s an audience of five million willing to play a good PvE game, which is a huge market.

The problem with WoWs pvp system is its too much like PVE..

You kill people for honor and such and spend it. Much like you would if you were going through an instance.

Lets take a real pvp perspective.. people should lose items and money for dying, or else whats the point of pvp? Pvp should be setting others back while pushing you forward.

What are you talking about? The point of PvP is competing with other players, thus the namePlayer versus Player.

No no no Fog. The point of PvP is to gank someone fighting a mob and corpse camp them until they have no items left, no money left and are back at level 1. Didn"t you get the memo?

Twobit Whore said:

No no no Fog. The point of PvP is to gank someone fighting a mob and corpse camp them until they have no items left, no money left and are back at level 1. Didn"t you get the memo?

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Well, that"s competing with other players, too, isn"t it?

I"m just saying, you"ll get some funny looks from me if you"re claiming that"s "not PvP", and you"ll get funny looks from five million arena players if you"re claiming WoW arenas "aren"t PvP." People agree that what they mean by PvP encompasses all that.

Fog said:

What do you mean, they would crash? You mean they would crash to five million instead of ten million? I don"t dispute that. That still means that there"s an audience of five million willing to play a good PvE game, which is a huge market.

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First lets stick with the NA/EU numbers since they are less vague than the Asian ones. So we are talking currently 4.5 million. Obviosuly "what ifs" will only be that "what if." Impossible to prove. But dam straight you remove the pvp from WOW, subs would crash and WAR or AOC becomes king.

Fog said:

Well, that"s competing with other players, too, isn"t it?

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In a way I suppose it is.

Hell, you could have "race the other player to the noob" competitions. First one there gets to kill him and take his stuff!

Actually.. that sounds fun.

Maxxius said:

First lets stick with the NA/EU numbers since they are less vague than the Asian ones. So we are talking currently 4.5 million. Obviosuly "what ifs" will only be that "what if." Impossible to prove. But dam straight you remove the pvp from WOW, subs would crash and WAR or AOC becomes king.

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Crash to 2 million, then? 1 million? (Fat chance.) I"d point out that that still beats the shit out of the subscription count of every single PvP-centric MMORPG ever released. Is a PvE MMORPG that "only" has 2 million subscribers a failure?

WAR and AOC would become king? Seeing as they don"t even exist on the market yet, I doubt that. How about we see the games before announcing how popular they would or wouldn"t be?

Twobit Whore said:

In a way I suppose it is.

Hell, you could have "race the other player to the noob" competitions. First one there gets to kill him and take his stuff!

Actually.. that sounds fun.

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That sort of happened to me in UO. I first log into the game, some guy runs up to me and begs me to help him kill ratman. I like a jerk follow, get mugged in the cemetary and stand there as a ghost watching the muggers loot my corpse ;p

Fog said:

Crash to 2 million, then? I"d point out that that beats the shit out of the subscription count of every single PvP-centric MMORPG ever released.

WAR and AOC would become king? Seeing as they don"t even exist on the market yet, I doubt that. How about we see the games before announcing how popular they would or wouldn"t be?

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Well let"s see. Figure half the servers and players are on pvp servers. Guess they leave. And I would submit half on pve servers really prefer the pvp more than the pve, but they just don"t like the griefing and ganking of a pvp server. So I would wager 3/4 s. And stop being obtuse. What I said was a PREDICTION or do you not understand that word?

Maxxius said:

Well let"s see. Figure half the servers and players are on pvp servers. Guess they leave. And I would submit half on pve servers really prefer the pvp more than the pve, but they just don"t like the griefing and ganking of a pvp server. So I would wager 3/4 s. And stop being obtuse. What I said was a PREDICTION or do you not understand that word?

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It"s a prediction that there"s a PvP game which is scalable and polished enough to hold those players; better than Guild Wars, EVE, and many other smaller MMORPGs which are quite decent games appealing to a PvP audience. I think it"s a pretty dicey proposition to say that WAR or AOC is going to be that game.

So now you"re saying that three out of four would leave. That sounds like an exaggeration to me, but there"s no point quibbling about it for pages, so let"s roll with it. That leaves 1-million-and-change North American players who are playing WoW and are happy with just the PvE. Doesn"t that contrast with your statement:

Then I submit you become niche if you make it pve centric. Kids want to kill each other. It"s the older crowd that probably prefers the pve path, but as said earlier that isn"t where the growth lies.

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1 million subscribers to an MMORPG is the furthest thing in the world from niche! This thread is about Curt"s MMO; do you think anyone would call it a failure if he racked up 1 million subscribers over a couple years?

Oh I am not saying AOC or WAR will be great games. I have no idea since I am not in beta in either. Tho I do hope. But the larger market has been and always will be in the pvp theatre and those two are the ones on the horizon. Take pvp away from WOW players and they have to go elsewhere.

And 1 million players for NA/EU would be great numbers for some companies, but that certainly would neuter the King. And yes, Curt would consider it a "failure" from a goal perspective at that level.

sorry but killing players because they have shitty equip.. or dying to them because you have shitty equip.. isnt competition.

Maxxius said:

Take pvp away from WOW players and they have to go elsewhere.

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The thing is, they don"t have to go elsewhere, if the other options are no good. I like lots of multiplayer games. I played vanilla WoW for a year and a bit as a near-top-end raider (I did lots of PvP and battlegrounds too, but I was playing it primarily to raid and then just PvPing to blow off a little steam now and then.)

I quit, because the time consumption was killing me, and now I play EVE, and PvP exclusively. I don"t really have time to dedicate to more than one MMO, because most of them are the sort of progressive games where you build on your character for a long time and really settle in -- at least that"s how I play them. But if there was a really awesome PvE MMO around that I could play in a casual timeframe? Sure, I could see myself quitting EVE and giving that a shot for a while.

So I think a lot of people are more versatile than you give them credit for, and might be happy to play a good game whether it"s a good PvP game or a good PvE game.

dota is good for competition.

Desx said:

sorry but killing players because they have shitty equip.. or dying to them because you have shitty equip.. isnt competition.

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You bet your ass it is. You"re both playing a game; your objective is to beat the shit out of some newbie, and their objective is to get away from you and/or get whatever they were trying to do done without getting killed.

Your objectives are at cross-purposes, and how you play the game determines who will succeed. That is definitely what I call competition. It isn"t fair competition, and for the newbie it might not be fun competition, but it"s sure competition.

there is rarely fair competition on WoW servers.. Lets define competition as something that isnt relative to 30+ hours a week on a game.

Fog said:

. . .
So I think a lot of people are more versatile than you give them credit for, and might be happy to play a good game whether it"s a good PvP game or a good PvE game.

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Kind of repeating myself but it is easy to do in a thread with a million pages. Name me these types of games" largest age bracket GROWTH market. I say it is the teens/20s. I also say people in that bracket prefer pvp more than farming gold, or camping mobs or doing instances over and over. I say you stand a better chance to obtain higher subs catering to that market. I have no actual proof, but I"d bet my house on it. And if Curt wants to bet on a 30 year old plus market wanting to mostly do pve, well it is his money to waste ;p

You two are fucking retarded. Why would you make a game that focuses on one aspect (PvE vs PvP) at the expense of the other when you know that both of them attract fairly large fucking crowds. Seriously, you dudes need to lay on the sauce a bit more and get liver failure and fucking die.



Meanwhile...

Mr. Schilling. Curt. C-Dawg. Is there *any possible way* you could assemble your badass team of badass artists to whip up a badass 1900x1200 wallpaper that maybe showcases some badass shit in your game, or not I don"t care. Just as long as it"s 1900x1200 and badass.