Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling

Zehnpai · Aug 7, 2009

Can"t, too busy building a country since I stopped just posting opinions and ideas about what would make a better country and decided to just fucking do it. Also stopped posting ideas and opinions on what would make for a kick ass action movie and started filming one in my backyard. Megan Fox hasn"t responded yet but I"m sure she"ll come around.

Once I"m done with those though, I"ll start putting together an MMO. You"ll just have to make do with my oblivion mods that changed lockpicking into a memory-style mini-game and the one that gave you a Halo style overshield for health instead of chainc hugging potions.

Ngruk_foh · Aug 7, 2009

Utnayan said:
deleted lots of really cool cuss words and e-screaming

Dude, just say no. Don"t come back in the thread until you hear an open live review announced.

It really is that easy.

It"s a place with conversation that interests me, which is all that really matters to me.

It"s far past the "writing" stage, given testing that"s happening. I think it"s cool to come in here and see or feel out responses to potential content and mechanics inclusions that are occurring or in consideration.

Aside from you and very few others, who believe your poop don"t stink and your design philosophies are the ONLY way to go, it"s a pretty a pretty interesting read for me.

Sure it gets a little old when you post a rant and that gets followed by 4 pages of posters telling you to shut the hell up, but that"s a small price to pay to talk about MMO"s and design ideas, philosophies and mechanics.

Genjiro · Aug 7, 2009

Right on Zehn.....just do it brah, just do it, like Nike.

Azrayne · Aug 7, 2009

Utnayan said:
I write this as I am on my 5th beer on my way to Dave and Busters.

The last 6 fucking pages prove my point.

Write and design the fucking game and quit anazlying this as a God Damn government senate committee nominating a judge for the supreme court.

Jesus Christ you people. Are you going to sit here and fucking talk about it for 4 years? Or think of your own God Damn ideas and design the fucker and publish the bitch?

Holy fucking hannah.

We can consolidate about 15 pages of bullshit theory in this thread and analyze it until everyone shits their collective pants.

Knock it off and make the game you want to. If it falls on it"s ass, tough shit. If it sells, good for you. The less time you hosebags spend on a God Damn forum talking about the ins and outs of popular mechanics in MMORPG"s (Which were hit and miss and mostly a side effect of shit design anyway) the more you can spend designing something of your own accord and maybe, JUST MAYBE, fucking come up with something original for me to play instead of being the next big seller based on the last popular in thing to do.

Edit: And before some dumbass comes in here and says, "But wait Utnayan!!! WAIT... This is how we talk about ideas and where everything forms!!" I"ll say, "You know what? I didn"t see Tim Schaefer on a message forum trying to copy cat a bunch of shit that was successful, and kick to the curbside shit that wasn"t." I saw the guy saying, "Fuck this. This is what I am doing and I love it - and for Christ sake, I do not need to validate it by a God Damn committee meeting to push for funding" Or ten times worse, try and disect every dick and harry idea that came into play in the last 10 years in MMORPG"s to garner the most bang for the buck according to past history.

Make the fucker.

-Love, Ut.

You"re hardly one to talk about obsessing and carrying on about things in forums. It"s been 2 years since VG released and you still bitch about Brad like no tomorrow.

I think you"re vastly overstating any kind of influence these boards have on the 38S guys. Mostly I just post here because it"s fun the theorize about game design and I"m sure most of the people in this thread do the same, nobody is seriously expecting their viewpoints to influence what Curt & co do with the game.

Vali_foh · Aug 7, 2009

OneofOne said:
Faction by family, not character. Any faction gained by any member of the family is applied to the entire family. Faction grind once per faction only.

I"m still not sure I"m into the WoW faction system. I understand it, and see the benefits, sure... Everything in the damn game is a positive - you mostly just gain faction and never lose it with anything meaningful.

I know there is a price to pay for an EQ velious type system. Giants / Dragons? The price, of course, comes in excluding some of your content to some of the playerbase based on the faction that they choose - but I think there is some really cool immersion stuff that can be exploited here, very good storyline elements and a schlew of other ideas.

Anyways - My point. Are you sure you like a faction system akin to WoW enough to commit to the family type system which you describe?

Vali_foh · Aug 7, 2009

UnchainedAcolyte said:
In my mind, the only "WoW killer" that may exist will be one whose content will cater effectively toallof Bartle"s gamer types.

I agree - and thanks for the links. I think this is very good at characterizing the types of players - often I wonder how much the synergy between the types is understood and further - how fragile this microcosm can be. What happens to the socializers when the achievers are impacted? (and vice versa.. et al). What happens to the casual when the elite impacted?

Your right, in that a leading revenue MMO really needs to support each mindset - I concur, and tach on that it needs to support, and create, the "elite" as well.

Northerner_foh · Aug 7, 2009

Ngruk said:
Dude, just say no.

Ng, as a pointer... there are three people I"ve had on ignore since (oh fuck, I"ll get called on this) say "04 or "05ish. Makata in two guises (which I flop depending on if I like the retardishness or not right now), Fedor (depending on how much of a douche he is being in SS) and Ut, who comes with no other qualifier than if I feel like reading that shit or not. I don"t think I ever even put Lumie on ignore dammit!

Regardless, there are names you should know and know how to take. I"m no saint and will make a drunken silly posthereon occasion but if Utnayan is laying down an "I"m SOOO loaded!!@!~1~" post then step aside sir.

Just a heads up to a forum guy from another.

DJk_zero_foh · Aug 7, 2009

Whatever comes of this, make sure your game engine and the network behind it doesn"t suck total ass that you feel as if the entire thing is taking place in a pool of molasses. We, as gamers won"t stand for that kind of garbage in this day and age. We want polish and not some third rate garbage that looks and plays like it"s 14 years old on a 14.4 modem.

Utnayan · Aug 8, 2009

Ngruk said:
It"s far past the "writing" stage, given testing that"s happening.

Did you think my post was intended for you? It was intended for the same bullshit posters we see in every thread while dumbasses who don"t know how to design games come to get their ideas and pass them off as their own, while guising it as original. My point stands, make the fucking game. Sorry Schilling (No pun intended), the day you get off the soapbox and come out with something enjoyable instead of more words which I just read, which sounds just like anyone else trying to promote a product no one has seen yet in a jaded industry which deserves that jadedness, I"ll continue to tell you to shut the fuck up and make the game. Just like I will tell every other Tom Dick and Harry here to quit rambling on about pointless bullshit and come up with anidea of your own instead of trying to piece together 20 fucking things that worked over the course of 12 games and mash them together.

Jesus Christ.

I think it"s cool to come in here and see or feel out responses to potential content and mechanics inclusions that are occurring or in consideration.

I think it"s a waste of time. And so are those pointless meetings about game design that take up about half a day of bullshit which ends up in 30 designers missing milestones because the producer condoned those same bullshit meetings when they should be sitting their asses down in a chair and making shit on their computer.

Maybe we should have a meeting to discuss the meetings shall we? Sit the fuck down and make the God Damn game that YOU want to make without discussing 15 different things that you might think will make it sell more.

Aside from you and very few others, who believe your poop don"t stink and your design philosophies are the ONLY way to go, it"s a pretty a pretty interesting read for me.

Listen here Jackass, I never said a damn thing about my design philisophies nor did I say anything about anyone elses. If you take that baseball out of your ass and read what I wrote, it was about morons that sit around the campfire and talk about what works and what doesn"t, when instead they should light their own ass on fire and get to work and write the game *THEY* want to make. Comprende? Oh, and you can say "Shit" here. It"s ok. Really.

Sure it gets a little old when you post a rant and that gets followed by 4 pages of posters telling you to shut the hell up, but that"s a small price to pay to talk about MMO"s and design ideas, philosophies and mechanics.

I could care less what people say. Just like you could have given a shit when people boo"d your ass off the mound on a shitty night. My advice still stands. You can talk yourself blue in the face about mechanics and all this shit until the cows come home. Quit analyzing the fuck out of the market and what people think sells (And don"t give me shit about that, you know God Damn well why you are here and it sure as fuck fire isn"t about design philisophies) and design your own shit, design your own game. But you can"t do that can you? You want to gather the account intelligence on what people will buy. Who gives a fuck what people will buy. Make a great game and people may buy it (Unless you have a publisher which hypes absolutely nothing: Beyond Good and Evil, Psychonauts).

Or go ahead and continue the MMORPG trend of hyping the fuck out of a game (In your case it"s called the snail grassroots effect - slowly building anticipation based of who you, or your other co workers, are) and releasing another gigantic turd into the arena selling a shitload, making the cash, and bolting.

In other words...

Make the fucker.(Tm)

Araxen · Aug 8, 2009

Hey look...a wall of text nobody caes about. Makata was a better poster than this shit.

Woefully Inept · Aug 8, 2009

And can he go 1 post without making an edit or am I just seeing things? I guess that"s a good thing though. We could have 3 or 4 or 15 times the posts by him if it weren"t for that edit button.

1. Ut has a chronic case of violent diarrhea of the mouth. He just spews and spews and spews his shit and then his diarrhea kicks in again and he spews some more.

2. So no shit the edit button rocks. That was my point in the first place you dolt.

3. /facepalm

Utnayan · Aug 8, 2009

Tred said:
And can he go 1 post without making an edit or am I just seeing things? I guess that"s a good thing though. We could have 3 or 4 or 15 times the posts by him if it weren"t for that edit button.

You are right. That edit button should or should not be there. I think we could sell 5 more copies per month without the edit button. Maybe we should talk about it for 5 fucking months in 3 day a week morning meetings and theory craft about how it will hurt the buttom line?

I"ll buy the coffee.

While in our meeting let"s discuss the ramifications of a 5 pronged reputation system which will correlate in player longevity per subscription count in a PvP setting via an instance path, instead of shutting the fuck up and making a fun reputation system.

Edit: I fucking love edit buttons.

Edit: Like a clear blue mountain sky, Tred, this edit is for you.

Pyksel_foh · Aug 8, 2009

Tred said:
And can he go 1 post without making an edit or am I just seeing things? I guess that"s a good thing though. We could have 3 or 4 or 15 times the posts by him if it weren"t for that edit button.

Ut would have a valid point if his posts weren"t filled with vitriol, lack of forethought, and personal attacks.

Sometimes it"s hard to distinguish real ideas and concerns when the surrounding context is caked in crap.

Tropics_foh · Aug 8, 2009

So, anyhow back to games for a sec.

One of the things bugging me of late in WOW (there are always afew) is the blandness of the itemization due to the micromanaging of the things down to exact ilevel determined stats and precisely determined dmg/dly to be identical to all other weapons of that ilevel.

Now I know WHY they do it, they wanted to make sure there was not one best weapon, but in the process they managed to make every weapon in the game seem like carbon copies of each other and end up differing only in graphics. At one time the dly of the weapon made some difference, and in some small ways this lingers but even in this they try to normalize things as much as possible and make even that moot.

I would rather see armor ratings on a weapon more scattered, give more armor on a certain piece and reduce it"s stats some. Make weapons that drop off of raid mobs 20% of the time have decent stats and then add some far more rare weapons that are flat out better, drop with a 1 or 2% chance and yet they are flat out better. Thus you still get your common upgrades you need to go ahead but there are still those carrots that you can hope drop when killing some old mob you killed before, bring back some small random chance of greatness like seeing Pyzjin up and fluking out on her having the Glowing Black Stone.

WOW is so bloody stale at this point, you basically have 20 different ways of getting to the exact same spot of X% ap, y% crit, Z% hit, ect... and at the end of the day if you have the weapon that has 80 hit and the belt with 50 crit while the other guy has the weapon with 50 crit and the belt with 80 hit the result at the end of the day is the same boring thing.

Tropics_foh · Aug 8, 2009

Starting a new post for this because it would be buried and it irks me even more then the above.

When creating a MMORPG alot of people say "don"t forget the "RPG" aspect" and I agree, these games need to link character development to the actual world and the things the character does alot more then WOW.

That said, I am going one further. In RPG don"t bloody omit the "R"! WOW has this awesome idea of making trinkets that have procs that do X, and in their wisdom they decided to remove random chance, basically remove the dice from a friggin role playing game and make it so the trinket has a 45 second cool down with a 100% chance to proc on a spell cast or 50% chance to proc on a melee hit, so basically you are guaranteed to get 1 proc each 45 seconds.

I would rather have a 2% chance to get a proc off of an item, period. Screw these internal cool downs and huge proc rates to normalize the rate the thing works, it is boring as hell.

This all comes back to the above, don"t micromanage the whole bloody game to this degree. Don"t sit there in the board room and say "well I think we want this trinket to be right in line with the stable 100 ap trinket we got to drop off of Gozer so lets give it a 300 ap proc for 20 seconds and start a internal cool down at the end of each 20 seconds that lasts 40 seconds and then just give the thing a 100% proc rate! There now in each minute both players have the same ratio!" Make the proc rate 2%, try to make it close to whatever it need to be to be close to the static ap buff from the other trinket, but leave the random chance of it performing better or worse in. Make it being an actual proc matter. Make dexterity affect proc rates even ala EQ, giving another stat something more to do.

Please for the love of Pete bring back random chance into these games, keep the "role" aspect in the "role" playing game.

Dr. Funkenstein_foh · Aug 8, 2009

Roll aspect of roll playing games.

As to the reputation comment about me being retarded...come out of the fucking shadows and explain to me what "role" has to do with dice and randomization.

Tropics_foh · Aug 8, 2009

Dr. Funkenstein said:
Roll aspect of roll playing games.

Dude, shhh, I am trying to make a point and the word "role" is used because you play a "role" in the games.... I was trying to mask that... you are screwing this up man.

Mippo_foh · Aug 8, 2009

The edit button is there for people who hit reply too quickly but are intelligent enough to go back and read what they posted so they can fix the spelling and grammatical errors.

Miele_foh · Aug 8, 2009

Utnayan said:
blabbering

I tend to avoid this kind of posts, but seriously Ut, get a grip...

Did it ever come to your mind that people here have jobs which they like already and also like games so they like to discuss about them?
We are not all here to suck someone"s dick to get a job in the industry, the fuck... I already do the game designer, since over 20 years I"m a DM in my D&D group of friends, I do it for fun, and for fun I read these boards and this thread in particular.

I"m from EU and baseball here is non existant, so Mr Curt will excuse me that I didn"t know him except for some charity appearance he did for the EQ2 team a couple years ago, I read Salvatore"s books as many others did, but I think Erikson and Martin, just to mention two, are better writers than he is (he is still good enough to be read, this I grant him).

I played EQ2 and have no real clue on what Moorguard did in that team (sorry, I tend to play the game, not judge developers or crew members in general).

I think you have your head so much up your ass that it"s fucking amazing how you can still breathe, but nonetheless, there is one thing you still fail to understand: people like to discuss about things they like. To me Ngruk is just a person who likes games, so are the others discussing in this thread.
I couldn"t give a fuck if Copernicus will be another average MMO, except that I"ll have to play more WoW, I just hope it"s a breath of fresh air, but without an open beta tour or a free trial, I"m not spending 1c on the title.
I don"t think these forums (and this thread in particular) have many MMO-virgins reading them, most of us won"t toss 50$ to the wind if the game isn"t worth them just because the boss of the company making it is a baseball star.

So if you don"t like people reading and posting about game design, get the fuck out of here, in fact, get the fuck out anyway, you are just boring, drunk or sober, you are the most boring thing ever happened to these boards. Rusty Makata is goddamn fun compared to you, Fedor obsession for animated gifs is fap material compared to you, even Lumie is a great source of entertainment compared to you posting here your "notes".

TLDR: get the fuck out of here, Ut.

Thank you.

Pimpbot 3000_foh · Aug 8, 2009

One thing that I wish people would understand is that virtually nobody besides the two people in the argument in question actually read these line by line longwinded responses.

Without an audience it is pretty much masturbation.

Green Monster Games - Curt Schilling

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