Hex: Shards of Fate TCG - Set 7: Frostheart 6/29/17

I still have no interest in this game. Offering crazy value 500 dollar kickstarter packs made this a "buy then or not at all" game for me. If the top level (for non-cosmetic stuff) gameplay wise was 100 dollars, I would have bought the kickstarter without a second thought. Kind of sad to see a game that might have potential turn off so many people because of an absolutely retarded business model.

^
Agree 100%. I was not willing to take that $250 wild leap on its kickstarter. No big deal usually, but now I can't bring myself to even bother if the game ends up being good, because of the bonuses that are no longer available.

edit: that being said, I hope the game ends up being good. I'd like more ccg mmos in the market.

ZProtoss_sl said:

I still have no interest in this game. Offering crazy value 500 dollar kickstarter packs made this a "buy then or not at all" game for me. If the top level (for non-cosmetic stuff) gameplay wise was 100 dollars, I would have bought the kickstarter without a second thought. Kind of sad to see a game that might have potential turn off so many people because of an absolutely retarded business model.

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There are ~1000 of the crazy value 500 dollar kickstarter packs in existence. Another 1000 got the free draft per week for life, and another ~3000 get a free draft per week for the first year. The rest of the kick starter bonuses at that level are PVE bonuses. So, 5000 people total will have this advantage, and only 2k will have it past the first year. You'd really let two thousand people's leap of faith keep you from playing something you might enjoy when their target for daily logins is probably in the 100k's or better?

Also, selling kickstarter perks are in no way/shape/form their "business model". Their business model is the same as every other CCG: Selling cards. I doubt "So many people" were turned off by a kickstarter program to which they had equal access as the people of which they are now jealous. 2k people making a down payment on 3 packs a week hasn't hurt the feelings of any rational person.

WhatsAmmataU there are a lot of people like this and I can somewhat understand where they are coming from. If the game is good they will come around. Especially if they are tcg players already.

Bummer

Sorry to disappoint, but it doesn't look like we'll be sending invites today. We'll have an update on 10/9 around 11 AM to inform everyone on where we're at. Thanks for your patience and support!

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Alpha Notes

really happy I didn't take the day off work

WhatsAmmataU_sl said:

There are ~1000 of the crazy value 500 dollar kickstarter packs in existence. Another 1000 got the free draft per week for life, and another ~3000 get a free draft per week for the first year. The rest of the kick starter bonuses at that level are PVE bonuses. So, 5000 people total will have this advantage, and only 2k will have it past the first year. You'd really let two thousand people's leap of faith keep you from playing something you might enjoy when their target for daily logins is probably in the 100k's or better?

Also, selling kickstarter perks are in no way/shape/form their "business model". Their business model is the same as every other CCG: Selling cards. I doubt "So many people" were turned off by a kickstarter program to which they had equal access as the people of which they are now jealous. 2k people making a down payment on 3 packs a week hasn't hurt the feelings of any rational person.

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I agree.

Also, It's not that "Free Draft Per Week" bonus gives anyone an advantage besides saving money. Everyone can still draft every week if they want to; nothing will stop them.

So, really besides the PvE bonuses there's nothing anyone is going to miss besides having good deal. Just because you miss a 50% discount on a TV doesn't mean you won't buy it at full retail price. Yes, it sucks you've missed a good deal but shit like this happen.

This is a TCG, it's gonna cost money to compete. People buying into the kickstarter for full sets or a weekly draft are just paying those cards now (granted, possibly at a very good rate) instead of later. The whole core of a TCG model might put off computer gamers that compare it to other video games instead of other TCGs, I guess (I think that's a strange opinion but meh, it is their choice).

Lasch_sl said:

^
Agree 100%. I was not willing to take that $250 wild leap on its kickstarter. No big deal usually, but now I can't bring myself to even bother if the game ends up being good, because of the bonuses that are no longer available.

edit: that being said, I hope the game ends up being good. I'd like more ccg mmos in the market.

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The bonuses are definitely still available, just not quite as cheap. I'll happily sell my Pro Player for $500.

One thing to note is that this game faces some very real competition and it's still in alpha and very buggy from what we have seen.The PvE experience is entirely unknown and although unlikely there is always the possibility endless frivolous lawsuits from MTG (probably very unlikely but you never know when you start hitting a companies bottom line).

All of those could make this game disappear along with our investment. We obviously hope not but it still feels like a big gamble.

WhatsAmmataU_sl said:

You'd really let two thousand people's leap of faith keep you from playing something you might enjoy when their target for daily logins is probably in the 100k's or better?

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Yep. The combination of price (exceeding 100 dollars) with the leap of faith nature of their business model is a gigantic turn off from the game. They went way the fuck overboard, and I assure you I'm not the only one who feels the same way. I really feel like they cut off their nose to spite their face with their kickstarter strategy. It's great that they got way more from the kickstarter than they would have if they went the more modest route for incentives, but the flipside to that is that they permanently alienated a shitload of people who would otherwise checkout their game.

Selix_sl said:

One thing to note is that this game faces some very real competition and it's still in alpha and very buggy from what we have seen.The PvE experience is entirely unknown and although unlikely there is always the possibility endless frivolous lawsuits from MTG (probably very unlikely but you never know when you start hitting a companies bottom line).

All of those could make this game disappear along with our investment. We obviously hope not but it still feels like a big gamble.

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I had these exact thoughts when i first looked at the kickstarter, but in the end my desire to play a new card game, and uninstall MtGO made me put the money in.
If the whole thing flops, I think I will be pissed more because I will have to find another tcg or go back to MtGO again than because my money will be lost.

The kick starter is not a business model. It's just an incentive for people to invest in the game before hand and get a discount in the process.

I don't understand the over reaction some of you are having. If the game is good, people will play it and will spend the money necessary to build decks and compete with. Those who invested in the kick starter are taking a chance you aren't, and gambling with their money. And again, this is a very few individuals.

Their kick starter is nothing more than a Sale. The Pve bonuses are very minimal and don't affect the Pvp aspect in any way.

Because for many people Kickstarter doesn't exist in a bubble where you have free reign to jew while the jewin's good and you're judged on what promises you are selling and for how much, especially for things that persist long after the campaign

bayr_sl said:

Because for many people Kickstarter doesn't exist in a bubble where you have free reign to jew while the jewin's good and you're judged on what promises you are selling and for how much, especially for things that persist long after the campaign

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To be fair Cory(head of Cryptozoic) genuinely did not expect the Kickstarter to go so well. He said in one of the interviews that one of the reasons for the over the top Kickstarter rewards was that he stayed up nights worrying that they wouldn't be enough to get the funding they needed and that they were priced so ridiculously high that very few people would purchase them anyway. That one of the reasons for the crazy Kickstarter video (and if you haven't seen it stop reading this and go watch it right now) was to convince people that this was a project worth backing. Mind you he was in this state after already having been rejected multiple times when he tried to sell this idea to investors or other companies and they said no.

Even after they finally realized how popular those reward tiers Cory said that he then realized they might have been to much(certainly the stacking allowance was) but they have already given their word that they allow it so he made the executive decision to stick to his word.

I suspect if he had had the chance he would made some serious modifications to the tiers. They didn't even have stretch goals because it never occurred to them that they would reach them.

I know some of you guys are upset from not getting in on the Kickstarter but Cory has personally invested his own money into more then a year's worth of development on this because he believed in the idea that much.

I don't know about you but this is the kind of game making company that I want to exist.

I am confused at the psychology involved with feeling as if you were cheated out of something, because you did not want to spend money on it or you missed the opportunity to get in on the deal. There is no advantage taken away from you because somebody else spent 250.00 initially. Lets review the two tiers that were the best buys. GK+ tiers are not being reviewed because their advantage is obvious in that it is a collective advantage of sorts.

Pro Player : I get one free draft once a week for the life of the game. It does not mean I get all the free drafts I want. I get one whole draft. This is not some massive advantage over other players. The draft does not change because I get a free one. It is not like when I play the draft, I get to pick two cards instead of one every time I choose from the pack. I do not win twice the number of packs when I play. All this does is save me money playing one draft. Since I paid 250.00 for this privilege, it saves me nothing for a while.

Dungeon crawler: A player gets twice the loot from bosses. The same bosses you can kill and also get loot from. This is PvE and so I am not as concerned about this at all. I guess the advantage is time? A player could still choose to just buy/trade for stuff off the auction house. Would you be angry and not buy the game just because a player spent a ton of money to play the game? Any online game has that scenario. How does that effect your ability to play the game?

Ill mention the collector only because OMG ALTERNATE ART MAKES ME MORE POWERFUL!!!!!!!!!.

If I were a betting man(and I guess I am since I am a pro player), I would bet any person choosing not to play this game because of the OMGWTFBARBEQUE1111!!!!! advantages the KSers get, will be playing this game if the game ends up being good.


P.S> _ I presume you invest nothing in a stock portfolio because OMG IT IS NOT FAIR when people buy low....

"I paid for the privilege to win, therefore it's okay"

The PvE stuff is for casual, the real game is PvP, and none of the KS backer have any advantage in PvP. NONE. If you're bitching because of the unfair bonuses in PvE, than I think you are an insane omptimist, because that is going to be casual content that people will beat and never play again. The real game is the PvP. If you are bitching about the Pro Player tier, then tough shit. People took a huge risk on it, the bonus if it all works out is their payoff.

I don't understand the problem. The game will live or die on PvP alone, the KS backers have no edge on you in PvP. The entire business model revolves around people drafting and playing constructed against other people. The entire point of PvE is to funnel people into buying packs for PvP.

Alpha Notes

Invites to be sent out soon