Home buying thread

Fucker

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Even considering (spending the mental capital) not paying off the mortgage is fucktarded… I seriously don’t understand the “min-max” financial mindset. Money is the goal to the exclusion of literally all else? Yeah your life must be amazing.

I imagine them as someone who would min-max a wizard to 18 int but 3 str. Yeah ok I bet it’s absolutely amazing having a carrying capacity of 13lbs. Tell me about all the cool things you can do.

Agonizing over that sort of decision is a mindset that is completely alien to me.
People who are good with money are always min-maxxing, and always optimizing for various results. It isn't agonizing at all. It is about achieving the best outcomes for your goals. This is a vast generality of course, and there are extremes all over the place. This isn't necessarily about money being the end all to the be all, either. For some people it is, for others money is just a means to an end.

I'm pretty well off, and still approach certain financial decisions with a great deal of thought...because it is intrinsic to my nature, not because I need to save a buck. For instance, I still consider Total Cost of Ownership when I purchase a vehicle even though I don't need to. I still primarily buy used cars even though I don't need to. I bought a new vehicle a few years ago, got a smoking deal. It was my 3rd new vehicle, and not a fancy one at that. Mid-range trim, non luxury model. My lifetime losses on vehicles (not including write-off, maintenance and wear items) isn't even $10k...and I've had some nice hardware.

Houses are the same. I've made a lot of money on every house I have owned, save for my first big one, which IIRC I lost 5-10k on overall.

I do all this through min-maxxing money.

It beats the hell out of crossed fingers, a pile of worthless lotto tickets, and walking around banks at night with a divining rod.
 

Seananigans

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People who are good with money are always min-maxxing, and always optimizing for various results. It isn't agonizing at all. It is about achieving the best outcomes for your goals. This is a vast generality of course, and there are extremes all over the place. This isn't necessarily about money being the end all to the be all, either. For some people it is, for others money is just a means to an end.

I'm pretty well off, and still approach certain financial decisions with a great deal of thought...because it is intrinsic to my nature, not because I need to save a buck. For instance, I still consider Total Cost of Ownership when I purchase a vehicle even though I don't need to. I still primarily buy used cars even though I don't need to. I bought a new vehicle a few years ago, got a smoking deal. It was my 3rd new vehicle, and not a fancy one at that. Mid-range trim, non luxury model. My lifetime losses on vehicles (not including write-off, maintenance and wear items) isn't even $10k...and I've had some nice hardware.

Houses are the same. I've made a lot of money on every house I have owned, save for my first big one, which IIRC I lost 5-10k on overall.

I do all this through min-maxxing money.

It beats the hell out of crossed fingers, a pile of worthless lotto tickets, and walking around banks at night with a divining rod.

Yeah, I don't consider entering into a transaction (and the due diligence that should accompany it) the same thing as deciding whether or not to extinguish debt, which was what I was talking about. I think everyone should evaluate potential transactions thoroughly, it's a no-brainer.

I understand why people have a mindset that includes voluntarily staying in debt because they can get slightly better "returns" on their money over time. It's a natural result of our corrupt debt-based financial system. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the type of thought process that results in whether or not to extinguish debt in the aforementioned case as not being a foregone conclusion.

To offer a reductio ad absurdum: There is probably a subset of the fin-min-max population that, when presented with option A) receive 10% return on money or option B) receive 12% return on money but get punched in the nuts 2x daily, they'd choose option B because number-go-up-higher. Godspeed, I guess.
 
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Intrinsic

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Yeah, I don't consider entering into a transaction (and the due diligence that should accompany it) the same thing as deciding whether or not to extinguish debt, which was what I was talking about. I think everyone should evaluate potential transactions thoroughly, it's a no-brainer.

I understand why people have a mindset that includes voluntarily staying in debt because they can get slightly better "returns" on their money over time. It's a natural result of our corrupt debt-based financial system. I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the type of thought process that results in whether or not to extinguish debt in the aforementioned case as not being a foregone conclusion.

To offer a reductio ad absurdum: There is probably a subset of the fin-min-max population that, when presented with option A) receive 10% return on money or option B) receive 12% return on money but get punched in the nuts 2x daily, they'd choose option B because number-go-up-higher. Godspeed, I guess.

I would need to know the time period and frequency of the nut kicks to really evaluate that decision. 2% at 20 years for $100,000 is only $15ish thousand dollars. If that’s 1 kick in the nuts per year that may be worth it. 1 kick per quarter and I’m not so sure.
 
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Seananigans

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I would need to know the time period and frequency of the nut kicks to really evaluate that decision. 2% at 20 years for $100,000 is only $15ish thousand dollars. If that’s 1 kick in the nuts per year that may be worth it. 1 kick per quarter and I’m not so sure.

Original offer was 2x/day but I’ll give you the half-nut discount: 1x/day for as long as the interest premium is desired. Final offer!
 
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Intrinsic

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Original offer was 2x/day but I’ll give you the half-nut discount: 1x/day for as long as the interest premium is desired. Final offer!
Hah! No way I’m no sucker. That’s like 7,600 nut kicks over 20 years or $2 a kick. We’re done having kids (I think?) but my nuts are worth way more than that!
 
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Furry

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Paying down debt is never, has never, and will never be "retarded". It won't ever even be foolish, or dumb.
It's 100% retarded to pay off a house while carrying 100k in CC debt in today's world. While that is a more extreme example, I can think of a 100 steps between retarded and perfectly fine where the decision would be foolish and dumb.

I understand that doing math hurts some of you non-autists, but the claim that math is inconsequential to math is rather bold and stupid. Especially so that I need to argue this when I am generally on the side of paying off your house is a good financial goal. I would just say that generally eliminating bad debt and being ahead of the curve for retirement should be goals you should accomplish first.
 
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Khane

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It's 100% retarded to pay off a house while carrying 100k in CC debt in today's world. While that is a more extreme example, I can think of a 100 steps between retarded and perfectly fine where the decision would be foolish and dumb.

I understand that doing math hurts some of you non-autists, but the claim that math is inconsequential to math is rather bold and stupid. Especially so that I need to argue this when I am generally on the side of paying off your house is a good financial goal. I would just say that generally eliminating bad debt and being ahead of the curve for retirement should be goals you should accomplish first.

Oh I get it. This is one of those situations where you can use the "R" word if you are the "R" word.
 
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Haus

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It's 100% retarded to pay off a house while carrying 100k in CC debt in today's world. While that is a more extreme example, I can think of a 100 steps between retarded and perfectly fine where the decision would be foolish and dumb.

I understand that doing math hurts some of you non-autists, but the claim that math is inconsequential to math is rather bold and stupid. Especially so that I need to argue this when I am generally on the side of paying off your house is a good financial goal. I would just say that generally eliminating bad debt and being ahead of the curve for retirement should be goals you should accomplish first.
In my case the mortgage for me is the last standing debt I have. No CC balances, no car payments... and I never racked up college debt.
 

Kithani

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In my case the mortgage for me is the last standing debt I have. No CC balances, no car payments... and I never racked up college debt.
Just pay it off man you know you want to and it isn’t going to move the needle one way or another
 
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Kobayashi

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Original offer was 2x/day but I’ll give you the half-nut discount: 1x/day for as long as the interest premium is desired. Final offer!
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Kobayashi

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Question for the people in the trades that would know: How does that pass an inspection? Does rough framing not get inspected? I could have sworn my deck had 3 - the footings, framing, and then final. I would hope a house would be way more rigorous.
 
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Gravel

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Question for the people in the trades that would know: How does that pass an inspection? Does rough framing not get inspected? I could have sworn my deck had 3 - the footings, framing, and then final. I would hope a house would be way more rigorous.
I know for the bigger builders who do entire subdivisions, they'll inspect one house and sign off on the rest. So say they're doing 6 at once, they'll only inspect one.

I'm sure like everything else in the country now, the whole thing is corrupt and incestuous, and the inspectors don't give a shit and will sign off on anything.
 
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lurkingdirk

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Question for the people in the trades that would know: How does that pass an inspection? Does rough framing not get inspected? I could have sworn my deck had 3 - the footings, framing, and then final. I would hope a house would be way more rigorous.

If this is a big-name or even well established builder the inspectors often skip steps. They'll wait until final inspections to make sure the house is standing and it's not going to burn down with loose electrical sockets or whatever. It's actually quite pathetic. Some areas are much stricter than others, and what I have heard is that pretty much all of Florida is super lax, with the exception of commercial spaces. But homes get slapped up pretty damned quickly, and there aren't enough inspectors.

That place would not pass inspection here. There would be a huge punch-list of things that would have to be done before they're allowed to move to the next step which is likely electric and plumbing. When I do work here I always schedule inspections in advance. It puts pressure on my guys, but it also creates solid deadlines. I always go with the inspector, and if there was anything like this place on my work site you can be sure there would be a few people looking for jobs the next morning. That sill plate separation from the foundation is a major problem. I'm surprised the exterior walls don't even have a double sill plate.

So, to answer your question, I have no idea how shit like this gets past inspectors. It absolutely should not, but over worked inspectors get twitchy to catch up and okay shit work, sometime money changes hands, some construction companies have their counties by the balls for something, whatever. Every single company that is even slightly large that builds homes looks for ways to cut costs in 100% of every situation. So the builders try to get away with as much as they can because it means they can pump out houses faster and make more money. And if the inspector does give them a punch-list you can bet they will do the absolute minimum to correct it, and often will bully inspectors by saying something like "Look, you wanted that done, now it's done." (Whether it is done well or not.)

What I don't understand about these builders is the lack of pride in their work. Sure, if you're hiring non-native people who are just in it to make enough money to send home or whatever, I can see how those workers would just rush through everything. But they are YOUR workers. You have to be at the site, checking the work, enforcing your standards. I have work lined up for as long as I want. I can't get it done fast enough, but I never rush, and I always include the consumer while I'm doing the work. Have them in each time an inspection would be warranted, show them how we've done things and why, and make sure we're still on the right path for what they envisioned. I have never advertised. It's 100% word of mouth. My crews and I do good work, everyone knows it, and people are willing to pay more for it because they are guaranteed it will not only meet code, but exceed it.

If you ever build a house, make sure you get on the site at least a couple times a week. If the builder tells you the workers don't like it, tell the builder to fuck off. They're working for you, for the most expensive thing you'll ever buy, and you're going to have input. Everyone could see the kinds of mistakes being made in this video. If you've got a contractor friend, or even a good DIYer friend, bring them with you periodically.

Okay. Sorry. End of rant. I get so angry about this topic. I so often have to go back into construction, even brand new construction, and fix things for people who already paid to have it done right. Sigh.
 

Borzak

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Most inspections are to make sure the building is not going to fall over 15 minutes after inspection, burn down due to bad wiring and such. Very little to make sure it is actually built "right" or good.