Idle Earl, home-made

Haus

Haus

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pwe said:
A new card rework was released just now. How it leaves you I don't know :)
Click to expand...
.64 and the rework seems solid.
1757771691380.png


Although one thing I swear I've seen (I believe in .62 and now .63), but it happens so fast that I haven't been able to screen shot it. I would swear that every now and again I'm reaching the "end phase" of a round, have around 5-8 high HP bad guys around me and 5-10 seconds left, and it will just end the round and go to the next, like I won it. Not running out of time, but it's like I finish the HP bar when there are still guys up to kill, just puts up the next Arena number and goes. Not even sure how I'd capture this to show you unless I video capture the window, and that would be a messy hassle for me.
 
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pwe

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Haus said:
.64 and the rework seems solid.
View attachment 601781

Although one thing I swear I've seen (I believe in .62 and now .63), but it happens so fast that I haven't been able to screen shot it. I would swear that every now and again I'm reaching the "end phase" of a round, have around 5-8 high HP bad guys around me and 5-10 seconds left, and it will just end the round and go to the next, like I won it. Not running out of time, but it's like I finish the HP bar when there are still guys up to kill, just puts up the next Arena number and goes. Not even sure how I'd capture this to show you unless I video capture the window, and that would be a messy hassle for me.
Click to expand...
I can imagine from the description. No idea atm but at least it's not breaking anything.

I see I didn't increase monster HP enough...
 
Haus

Haus

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pwe said:
I can imagine from the description. No idea atm but at least it's not breaking anything.

I see I didn't increase monster HP enough...
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's not breaking. If I had to guess I would say the logic is as I do damage it reduces the main HP bar, when that bar reaches 0 the round is over. But for some reason there are more mobs on the board than there are HP in the bar. So I magically finish a round with a few mobs still let wandering around.
 
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Haus

Haus

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And now you'll see how stupid my brain gets thinking about shit while I'm tidying up my workshop.

In my head I imagine damage happens something like this :

Attack calculates damage and well call that %damage
Subtract %damage from %hp_bar_remaining
if %hp_bar_remaining < 0 round is over and won
Subtract %damage from %target_hp
if %target_hp < 0 target dead : find new target

The problem is overkill damage. If I have 10 mobs, each one has half a billion HP. Totalling up to 5B HP in my big red bar. But my necro skulls are popping for 1B a tick then follow that flow above. I'm subtracting 1B a tick from the bar, but it's only taking 500M to kill the mob. I one shot 5 mobs, doing 2.5B in their total HP, but it subtracts 5B from the big red bar. Leaving me with 0 in the big red bar (round won), but 5 mooks still wandering around wondering why everybody just left....

Fix would be

Attack calculates damage and well call that %damage
if %damage > %target_hp then %damage == %target_hp
Subtract %damage from %hp_bar_remaining
if %hp_bar_remaining < 0 round is over and won
Subtract %damage from %target_hp
if %target_hp < 0 target dead : find new target

That would shave off overkill damage.

Unrelated, I somehow find myself not wanting to buy the next rank of this skill.. but I can't seem to figure out why...
1757789517153.png
 
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Runnen

Runnen

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Haus Haus after he tells himself today is the day he won't freak out about a misplaced %, a letter slightly extending out of its frame, or a 0.000023% decrease in his DPS on specifically Arena 37201.

angry freak out GIF
 
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pwe

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Haus said:
And now you'll see how stupid my brain gets thinking about shit while I'm tidying up my workshop.

In my head I imagine damage happens something like this :

Attack calculates damage and well call that %damage
Subtract %damage from %hp_bar_remaining
if %hp_bar_remaining < 0 round is over and won
Subtract %damage from %target_hp
if %target_hp < 0 target dead : find new target

The problem is overkill damage. If I have 10 mobs, each one has half a billion HP. Totalling up to 5B HP in my big red bar. But my necro skulls are popping for 1B a tick then follow that flow above. I'm subtracting 1B a tick from the bar, but it's only taking 500M to kill the mob. I one shot 5 mobs, doing 2.5B in their total HP, but it subtracts 5B from the big red bar. Leaving me with 0 in the big red bar (round won), but 5 mooks still wandering around wondering why everybody just left....

Fix would be

Attack calculates damage and well call that %damage
if %damage > %target_hp then %damage == %target_hp
Subtract %damage from %hp_bar_remaining
if %hp_bar_remaining < 0 round is over and won
Subtract %damage from %target_hp
if %target_hp < 0 target dead : find new target

That would shave off overkill damage.

Unrelated, I somehow find myself not wanting to buy the next rank of this skill.. but I can't seem to figure out why...
View attachment 601819
Click to expand...
I have exactly that ;)

If damage > enemyHealth then damage = enemyHealth
Extract damage from HP Bar
 
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Haus

Haus

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And this morning...

Thanks for that "Next 2x" button. Make a fresh rebirth much easier.
 
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pwe

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Haus said:
And this morning...

Thanks for that "Next 2x" button. Make a fresh rebirth much easier.
Click to expand...
Could you do me a huge favor? Get the latest version, buy the new passive income bonuses (if you haven't) and check how fast you get credits. Compared to your current version. I'm worried it might be too fast. It's pretty hard balancing this stuff when big changes are made.

Or I could just get your save game.

These, all seven. 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4.
1757956015768.png
 
Haus

Haus

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pwe said:
Could you do me a huge favor? Get the latest version, buy the new passive income bonuses (if you haven't) and check how fast you get credits. Compared to your current version. I'm worried it might be too fast. It's pretty hard balancing this stuff when big changes are made.

These, all seven. 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4.
View attachment 602086
Click to expand...
Here's my current snapshot :
1757956433220.png

Currently in that "rebalancing freefall" where I'm watching to see how low that Arena number goes before I get back to around a "win one, lose one" rate.
Own all the perks... Even the skin. heh
1757956501222.png

Last night I was just getting past 3.xxx Sx/sec in passive income.
Refresh to .69 and I immediately jumped to 14.xxx Sx/sec. So it was a sizable jump.

At the same time, the amounts I'm needing to raise the essential "buff up Earl" skills (Frenzy, Necromancer, Skull Crusher, Smart daggers) are all over 20Sp per rank.

The current arenas have shifted, I remember pre-Smart Daggers where is was all about the fireballs, whatever you focused fired was what you killed and it was the one way to win an arena. Now (and this is in the 38-40k arena level range) it's all about the skulls. You need skulls on high HP targets constantly to put a dent in things. I can definitely see how it's tricky balancing those damage factors. Right now it's daggers measures in Thousands, fireballs measured in Million , Skulls measured in Billion. Not sure how the per second for each class of damage looks.
 
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pwe

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Haus said:
Here's my current snapshot :
View attachment 602088
Currently in that "rebalancing freefall" where I'm watching to see how low that Arena number goes before I get back to around a "win one, lose one" rate.
Own all the perks... Even the skin. heh
View attachment 602089
Last night I was just getting past 3.xxx Sx/sec in passive income.
Refresh to .69 and I immediately jumped to 14.xxx Sx/sec. So it was a sizable jump.

At the same time, the amounts I'm needing to raise the essential "buff up Earl" skills (Frenzy, Necromancer, Skull Crusher, Smart daggers) are all over 20Sp per rank.

The current arenas have shifted, I remember pre-Smart Daggers where is was all about the fireballs, whatever you focused fired was what you killed and it was the one way to win an arena. Now (and this is in the 38-40k arena level range) it's all about the skulls. You need skulls on high HP targets constantly to put a dent in things. I can definitely see how it's tricky balancing those damage factors. Right now it's daggers measures in Thousands, fireballs measured in Million , Skulls measured in Billion. Not sure how the per second for each class of damage looks.
Click to expand...
Crazy numbers... how about credits? I just got a report that they are running amok at lower/medium levels (though I don't see it), so I disabled the last three income cards (X3, X3 and X4).

Anyways, I don't want to spam this thread. You will probably see passive income drop considerably since I'm going to revert some stuff.
 
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Haus

Haus

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pwe said:
Crazy numbers... how about credits? I just got a report that they are running amok at lower/medium levels (though I don't see it), so I disabled the last three income cards (X3, X3 and X4).

Anyways, I don't want to spam this thread. You will probably see passive income drop considerably since I'm going to revert some stuff.
Click to expand...
I'm popping a credit around every 8 seconds, so yeah, that bolstered up a LOT with this update. But also this is , as you can see, at a moderately advanced passive income level. If I let it just run in background and rebirth tomorrow morning I estimate I'll harvest something stupid crazy like 9000 diamonds (essentially doubling up my diamond count). I don't know what the diamond accumulation at lower levels would look like right now.

But even with that inflation and spending today pouring everything into damage skills I think I just now reached "equilibrium" where I'm winning and losing at around a 50/50 clip. (Dropped from around Arena 41k to around Arena 38k.)

I also realize I'm probably definitely in the "poopsock raider autist" level with this.
 
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pwe

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Haus said:
I'm popping a credit around every 8 seconds, so yeah, that bolstered up a LOT with this update. But also this is , as you can see, at a moderately advanced passive income level. If I let it just run in background and rebirth tomorrow morning I estimate I'll harvest something stupid crazy like 9000 diamonds (essentially doubling up my diamond count). I don't know what the diamond accumulation at lower levels would look like right now.

But even with that inflation and spending today pouring everything into damage skills I think I just now reached "equilibrium" where I'm winning and losing at around a 50/50 clip. (Dropped from around Arena 41k to around Arena 38k.)

I also realize I'm probably definitely in the "poopsock raider autist" level with this.
Click to expand...
You should probably refresh now and go back to "normal", which will be much, much, slower. Or not, if you wish to go crazy ;)
 
Haus

Haus

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pwe said:
You should probably refresh now and go back to "normal", which will be much, much, slower. Or not, if you wish to go crazy ;)
Click to expand...
This will show to what level my inner autist has taken this....

I know if I do a rebirth in the morning I'll be right back to where I left off arena wise and passive wise (plus diamond bonuses) by around dinner the next day. heh
In my head I already know that I will have work meetings taking up all day Wed/Thursday, and I have a surgical procedure on Friday, so those will be days Earl just rolls in the background...
This all points at rebirth tomorrow morning ;) But you're right, it's 3, and there are nerfs incoming, probably best to get with the current patch.

All this said, I assume when you finish "Early Access" you might be planning a grand wipe, where you rebirth/refresh and it says "Thanks for being in early access, you unlocked <super_cool_skin> that non-early access people will never get, but now we have to reset everything to a clean slate, sop everybody is on a level Earl-ing field."
 
Haus

Haus

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OK, did a rebirth/reload to test.

Did rebirth first, within an hour had everything unlocked, and was back into Sp/Sec fast. Then realized I had just rebirthed at .69.

Did a reload, so now at what seems to be pre .64 levels but with the first hour of .69 level progression :
1757970572299.png

Observations :
  • Anything approaching Sp/sec passive is a very far ways away now. (As opposed to 3Sp/sec in .64 and 18Sp/sec in .69)
  • Currently looking like the "Next 2x" button is a mean taunt as most of the skills you use to increase PI are now multiple days of earnings away, heh.
  • Credit accumulation is back to around .05% per tick, which means a little over 30 minutes per credit now (as opposed to 8 sec or go per credit in .69)
  • He's still getting super fast clears in the 12xxx arena range, we'll see where he hit equilibrium.
Next will probably be to do a rebirth at .71 and see how long it takes from ground up at this patch without the .69 boosted startup.
 
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Haus

Haus

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Lanx said:
this latest update is super slow, i stopped
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Yeah, there seem to be two "walls" you approach.
  1. Earl is stuck and not advancing in arenas.
  2. Ranks , 2x bumps, and upgrades cost so much you have to wait so long to afford them that you might forget about the game...
You solve number one by arming him better with ranks in skills, but that leads you to number 2.
You overcome number 2 by accumulating credits, to turn in for diamonds, to accelerate the earnings curve and overcome the "stall zones".

Right now I'm hitting number 1, and number 2 (It will take around a week right now for me to see my next 2x in smart daggers for instance, assuming I spend money on nothing else). But the credit accumulation rate has slowed to the point that if I want to , for instance, boost my diamond multiplier up ~20% (From 1487 to around 1800) would be around 250 credits. Those 250 credits will by my estimations take around 3-4 days to accumulate.
 
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pwe

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Lanx said:
this latest update is super slow, i stopped
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Where are you at? It's not intended to be slower than like... a week ago. I will definitely speed it up if some serious slowdown happened. Could you spoiler a save game please? If you have the latest version the numbers should be comparable... In theory.

Haus Haus Was it much faster a week ago? These balancing things are tricky... I will stop doing that when this one is satisfactory. BTW, I see no reason to wipe anything when I'm done here. Just a new release where you can import your existing save game if you wish.
 
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Lanx

Lanx

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pwe said:
Where are you at? It's not intended to be slower than like... a week ago. I will definitely speed it up if some serious slowdown happened. Could you spoiler a save game please? If you have the latest version the numbers should be comparable... In theory.

Haus Haus Was it much faster a week ago? These balancing things are tricky... I will stop doing that when this one is satisfactory. BTW, I see no reason to wipe anything when I'm done here. Just a new release where you can import your existing save game if you wish.
Click to expand...
beats me, last i stopped i had 5100 diamonds, i should have been on my way to getting the 200 bountiful skin
 
Haus

Haus

I am Big Balls!
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pwe said:
Where are you at? It's not intended to be slower than like... a week ago. I will definitely speed it up if some serious slowdown happened. Could you spoiler a save game please? If you have the latest version the numbers should be comparable... In theory.

Haus Haus Was it much faster a week ago? These balancing things are tricky... I will stop doing that when this one is satisfactory. BTW, I see no reason to wipe anything when I'm done here. Just a new release where you can import your existing save game if you wish.
Click to expand...
I want to say things felt quicker, but not a ton quicker. I was focusing on getting to that first Sx/sec level at that point. Then I think it was .64 (or around there) hit which amped things up and I was suddenly closing in on 10Sx/sec , and .69 went into plaid drive and I was closing in on 20Sx/sec.

I think the question is with the three "phases" of :

Arm Earl
When you can't do that easily, build Passive Income to better arm Earl
When you can't do that easily rebirth to cash in diamonds and build PI faster and then better arm Earl.
When you can't do that easily rebirth to cash in diamonds and build PI faster and then better arm Earl.
When you can't do that easily rebirth to cash in diamonds and build PI faster and then better arm Earl.
When you can't do that easily rebirth to cash in diamonds and build PI faster and then better arm Earl.
...

The philosophical questions then become , How long is anticipated for each phase? How repeatable is that main game loop before scaling/advancement breaks it. IMHO, I think the sweet spot for me was where I had a reason to check in on Earl a few times a day after a frantic "rebirth speed run" phase in each rebirth. With current scaling/speed it's going to be "check in on him every day or every other day, or maybe next week" and just accept he's going to plateau on arenas.
 
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