Kithani
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Very few surgeons actually make a million+/year.
Plenty of surgeons made this though
$470k in 1993
$600k in 2003
(I can't speak to 1973 / 1983)
Investing General Discussion
- Thread starter Furious
- Start date
Plenty of surgeons made this though
$470k in 1993
$600k in 2003
(I can't speak to 1973 / 1983)
Arden
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Kithani
Blackwing Lair Raider
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2008 “you need to pass it so you can find out what’s in it” pretty much killed that trend line…
Good thing people are saving so much money on their healthcare premiums LOL
Arden
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Yeah I'm sure it didn't continue exactly like that, but salaries are really wacky right now anyway. The lowest wage earners have gotten a much-needed boost, but most mid range salaries haven't caught up to that (unless you are one of the lucky ones with a good union, like UPS or UAW).
150k/year for 2 people isn't poverty level where I live, but you won't have much to spare at the end of the month, and you certainly won't own a home. I live in a very middle class neighborhood and the *average* home value here is north of 1.2 mil. And most homes are worth considerably more.
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Sanrith Descartes
Von Clippowicz
- 41,539
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Arden
Blackwing Lair Raider
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"Very middle class neighborhood".
"Average home value is $1.2m"
Yeah, that's exactly my point. You can't determine the relative wealth of an area by average home value alone (or average salary). If you were to walk around my neighborhood and look at the actual homes (95% of them are small, single-story bungalows), the cars (toyotas, hondas, chevys, and fords, rather than beamers, Mercedes, and Lexus), and talk to the people who live here (my neighbor to the left drives a truck and my neighbor to the right is an electrician), you'd be hard-pressed to argue the neighborhood is anything but middle class.
You need more data points than just home value to make any serious determination about the people in a neighborhood. A million dollar home in Cleveland looks waaaay different than a million dollar home in L.A.
Lambourne
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 2,733
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Not sure what the expectation here is. You can call yourself working class or middle class but calling yourself upper class is something for posers.
Suppose you could call yourself a 1%-er because that sounds a bit less pretentious but you need like 10 mil net worth for that these days. It's still only going to invite envy and contempt from many people so why bother revealing your financial status to the world.
Suppose you could call yourself a 1%-er because that sounds a bit less pretentious but you need like 10 mil net worth for that these days. It's still only going to invite envy and contempt from many people so why bother revealing your financial status to the world.
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Mist
Eeyore Enthusiast
- 30,483
- 22,378
Sell your 1.2 million dollar home and move to rural Tennessee.
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Arden
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Here's a pic from google maps of a typical house in my neighborhood. Maybe you have a different definition of middle class than I do, but everything about this pic says solidly middle class to me. The current value of the white house in the pic is $1,268,000. It took me about 60 seconds to find this example, because almost all the houses in my neighborhood look like this.
Arden
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Mist
Eeyore Enthusiast
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Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 44,817
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Dont confuse living in a high cost of living area with being middle class.
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Arden
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Burnem Wizfyre
Log Wizard
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Arden
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Big Phoenix
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
- 44,817
- 93,680
If you can afford to easily(as in live in a home you own, not rent a cramped apartment of filled with roommates) live in one of the highest COLA places in the country, you are no where near middle class. Just because your life isnt as good as scrooge mcduck's doesnt mean you middle class.
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OU Ariakas
Diet Dr. Pepper Enjoyer
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I truly believe that there is no such thing as the middle class; it is a catch-all term meant to do exactly what people here are doing and that is to apply in some way to every one so that they can move the goal posts on what it means to live a comfortable life. The reality of the United States in 2023 is that you could have two married people working $15/hour jobs and they could live a comfortable life as long as they lived within their means. You could also have two married people (like my example above) that made $1 million a year but live way outside their means, leading to a life of stress and anxiety in which they cannot enjoy how truly well off they really are. We should be able to categorize people in two ways: 1.) by income level so that we can determine what they expect to take home in a year; but also 2.) by wealth level so we see how wise they are being with the money they have. The second metric is rarely talked about and arguably more important than the first.
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Arden
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Ok, so take this example:
Guy 1: Works at McDonalds making $22/hr. Pays $2,500/month to rent a shitty apartment with 2 roommates in L.A. Drives a Kia Rio.
Guy 2: Works at McDonalds making $10/hr. Pays $800/month to rent a shitty apartment with 2 roommates in Harrisburg, PA. Drives a Kia Rio.
By your rationale, these two guys have completely different lifestyles because one lives in a high COLA area and the other doesn't. Right?
Furry
WoW Office
- 19,694
- 24,940
Exactly, they get the big city LA lifestyle, just go to the fast food thread to hear people praising it. Women in particular highly value this lifestyle improvement.
Mist
Eeyore Enthusiast
- 30,483
- 22,378
I think "Middle Class" means having churn roughly equal to burn. Living comfortably but still just treading slightly above paycheck to paycheck. Carrying only modest debts.
"Upper Middle Class" would be the same as above, but after contributing near the maximum to their retirement with no high interest debts.
"Upper Class" means they're wealth is growing in a way that is significantly outpacing their spending. They're able to contribute the maximum tax-advantaged retirement AND make other investments, including additional homes, small businesses, and other growing revenue streams.
"Lower Middle Class" means perpetual, unmanageable debt. This is probably most Americans.
"Lower Class" is Kenny's parents.
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