Investing General Discussion

Blazin

Creative Title
<Nazi Janitors>
7,478
37,482
How do we analyze this in real terms for people who live and spend in the US though? The dollar going down will make all foreign goods more expensive, and it can make domestic goods more expensive for those goods that rely on foreign parts/workers for subassemblies or whatever. But 70% of the US economy is domestic, so if the dollar drop 10%, how much of that 10% actually translates to increased prices for Americans?

I.e. I have 10% more money but now shit is 5% more expensive, thats still a 5% win? Just making up numbers here but you get the idea.
You're spot on that it matters less to service economies than it does to a manufacturing economy. The loss of purchasing power does trickle through the entire system. It can be very hard to not get lost in the woods on this because we want to try to focus on a particular factor and think of an individual consumer rather than the entire worldwide economic pool.

On one hand a devalued dollar is used to buy real tangible assets and these dollars are borrowed, so the loans will be repaid in the future with an even shitter dollar but we got to keep the real good. So we can then think "The US gains an advantage on other nations by buying their materials in exchange for a declining asset and we should do this as much as we are able"

So there is two rubs to the "are able" if we do it too much they will increasingly not want our dollars demanding more for their real stuff. The other is it devalues previous stored dollar stored wealth, and we as a nation then destroying prior effort. You worked hard and saved $100k and this behavior will now destroy your previous work.

How it directly related to inflation in the short term is very hard to predict the system is too complex. We only know the answer through the simple macro view. More dollars in the system that are not backed by productivity will erode the currency.

In your example the only way 10% /5% scenario can exist is for their to be tangible productivity , that we created more wealth via capitalistic expansion rather than simply leverage.

Right now I believe inflation is still too high, cheap oil is hiding this. And oil is finicky and is less in the control of monetary policy.

Do we want a strong dollar versus weak dollar argument is a folly. What we want is a stable dollar. Movement in either direction unabated in the short term is going to be a problem. What I mean by that is the dollar pretty much never stops losing value however we have found that in the magical pot of human behavior a 1-2% per annum devaluing is stable enough .

Right now the Treasury is not acting concerned but there will be magic barriers where it will revert to very concerned if they feel it's becoming untethered. They believe they have plenty of mechanisms to strengthen the dollar in a short period if they feel it necessary.

If you listen people like Jamie Dimon who believes we are heading towards a flash crisis in the dollar and our debt, where market forces will test this resilience. Monetary policy is clearly moving in a direction to see if they get away with a STABLE higher rate of inflation.

Sorry got long winded, circling back people with assets can fight this battle better, lower-middle income people have found their wages do not keep pace. Could have a discussion about what portion a $60k a year family spends on goods versus services compared to a wealthy individual with far more . In your example, if services don't increase in cost that is how the poor person gets paid, they will find buying goods harder and harder. Rich S&P 500 guy will see it as "what's the problem?" I'm getting wealthier faster than my costs are climbing.
 
  • 5Like
Reactions: 4 users

Cad

scientia potentia est
<Bronze Donator>
28,863
63,401
I can't decide what to do with that information. The economy outside the top 10 companies is shit, so do I cut out the bottom (currently in total market funds) and just go all in on the winners (or at worst, just the S&P 500)? Or is it something where I hope in the rest of the economy does...anything?

Edit: Also, since I didn't read the rest of the thread, it means that outside of the top 10 companies that are propping up the markets, every company is getting fucking decimated right now. Not just by a weakening USD, but also they're not even keeping up with it. When IWM is flat for half a decade but the USD inflates 300%, it's really that every company is getting brutalized and the entire economy is on the brink of collapse.
IWM is up 60% over the last 5 years, VTI (total market index) is up 92%. How is that flat? Am I not understanding?
 

Blazin

Creative Title
<Nazi Janitors>
7,478
37,482
IWM is up 60% over the last 5 years, VTI (total market index) is up 92%. How is that flat? Am I not understanding?
just depends on start point. If you bought IWM on Nov of 2021 at $244 obviously not doing so well today at Sep 25 at $239

1757701708623.png


IWM did a great job coming off the covid lows and that's where it stopped. Inflation adjusted it's a pretty horrific period and I believe the largest underperformance to large caps in the last 100yrs
 
  • 2Like
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 2 users

Cad

scientia potentia est
<Bronze Donator>
28,863
63,401
just depends on start point. If you bought IWM on Nov of 2021 at $244 obviously not doing so well today at Sep 25 at $239

View attachment 601648

IWM did a great job coming off the covid lows and that's where it stopped. Inflation adjusted it's a pretty horrific period and I believe the largest underperformance to large caps in the last 100yrs
Makes sense. The 2023/24 recovery that VTI experienced IWM really missed.
 

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
44,223
156,573
just depends on start point. If you bought IWM on Nov of 2021 at $244 obviously not doing so well today at Sep 25 at $239

View attachment 601648

IWM did a great job coming off the covid lows and that's where it stopped. Inflation adjusted it's a pretty horrific period and I believe the largest underperformance to large caps in the last 100yrs
Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean half decade to be the literal last 5 years. Just short hand. My bad.

It's pretty close though. Covid recovery by beginning of 2021, and it's just now finally hitting that again.
 
  • 1Solidarity
Reactions: 1 user

Jysin

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
7,016
5,357
IWM's problem is you have most of these companies relying on debt. Some completely unprofitable and 100% reliant on cheap debt. Since the tightening cycle, it has really put a ton of pressure on those companies. It is a precarious situation where we have a current stagflationary environment. Weakening labor market is bad, but fighting inflation with higher rates is also bad on small caps. Markets are clearly trying to look through all of this and assume we have a lower rate environment imminent and somehow going to pull off the "soft landing".
 

Jysin

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
7,016
5,357
Tesla had a big move on Friday that some were trying to attribute to lower rates coming this week (auto loan positive impact). Never made sense to me as .25% is fuck all in the scheme of things.

Turns out that a filing revealed Elon bought $1B in Tesla stock under a trust that day. Move has extended today on that news. That’s a hell of a move based on nothing but Elon hype.

 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Sanrith Descartes

You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
<Gold Donor>
48,525
140,401
Tesla had a big move on Friday that some were trying to attribute to lower rates coming this week (auto loan positive impact). Never made sense to me as .25% is fuck all in the scheme of things.

Turns out that a filing revealed Elon bought $1B in Tesla stock under a trust that day. Move has extended today on that news. That’s a hell of a move based on nothing but Elon hype.

It's also tied to his new decade long pay treatment the board proposed. It could be valued at a trillion dollars if the company hits a bunch of really difficult targets.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Sanrith Descartes

You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
<Gold Donor>
48,525
140,401
How much FED interest rate hike shit is already baked in? I'm thinking way too much. If we get a surprise 50 pt cut we see some jump in stocks and then we wait for the dot plot to tell us more. but if we only get a 25 pt cut, at this point do we see a downward movement because its only a "25" and the market is pricing in a "50"?
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Jysin

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
7,016
5,357
SPY/QQQ/IWM all well into the green today, yet the VIX is up nearly 6%.

Clearly shows there is a healthy amount of hedging taking place going into this Fed week.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Haus

I am Big Balls!
<Gold Donor>
17,004
69,122
How much FED interest rate hike shit is already baked in? I'm thinking way too much. If we get a surprise 50 pt cut we see some jump in stocks and then we wait for the dot plot to tell us more. but if we only get a 25 pt cut, at this point do we see a downward movement because its only a "25" and the market is pricing in a "50"?
I'm kinda worried about this as well. Not to mention now Trump trying to fire someone off the Fed board and the courts telling him, I think today, that he couldn't so she'll be on this fed board meeting with an axe to grind against Trump....
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Falstaff

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,684
3,827
How much FED interest rate hike shit is already baked in? I'm thinking way too much. If we get a surprise 50 pt cut we see some jump in stocks and then we wait for the dot plot to tell us more. but if we only get a 25 pt cut, at this point do we see a downward movement because its only a "25" and the market is pricing in a "50"?
Yes.
 

Sanrith Descartes

You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
<Gold Donor>
48,525
140,401
Sanrith Descartes Sanrith Descartes Market shouldn't be pricing in a 50bp cut at all tomorrow. There's like 4% odds on that, which would be counter to market positioning.

Have you met today's traders?
 
  • 1Diamond Hands
Reactions: 1 user

Sanrith Descartes

You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
<Gold Donor>
48,525
140,401
Index or not index. That is the question. Its been asked and answered thousands of times. Its FED day so not a lot going on so I decided to take a 5-year look at the SPY and compare it to a bunch of individual big cap stocks across a number of sectors (plus QQQ and IWM) and compare them to just putting your cash into the SPY. Note: This comparison does NOT include dividends, but looking at the underperformers I don't see any stock where it would have pushed it outperforming the SPY.

I use stuff like this myself to see if something I hold long term is worth keeping. It may have been a great performer years ago but now I look and see it has turned into an underperformer. MA underperforming the SPY by as much as it did was kind of surprising. And truth be told it shouldn't be since I own it and shame on me for failing to know this. But that is one of the flaws in buy and hold forever. We get complacent and we have to realize forever doesn't really mean forever and we really do need to deep dive our long term holds on the regular.

One note: I included UNH today and the day before the CEO was ganked.

The list (and no surprises who is #1). The oil majors are skewed because of the demand destruction on oil 5 years ago due to Covid in my opinion.

1758118594050.png
 

Furry

Email Loading Please Wait
<Gold Donor>
25,485
35,885
I hope they don't I need a stock to fall 30 cents so my limit order will fill.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions: 1 user

Gravel

Mr. Poopybutthole
44,223
156,573
Can't decide if today will be a good day to initiate my rollover from my TSP to Vanguard.

The 2-3 week expected timeframe where the money is out of the market gives me so much anxiety.
 

Furry

Email Loading Please Wait
<Gold Donor>
25,485
35,885
Can't decide if today will be a good day to initiate my rollover from my TSP to Vanguard.

The 2-3 week expected timeframe where the money is out of the market gives me so much anxiety.
Just do it. You'll probably lose out on a little no matter when you do it, but TSP is so meh and unresponsive. It's great for retards, but I'd roll it over to something else the day I left the government.