Investing General Discussion

Sheriff Cad

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Not really. In fact it's very easy most of the time in current times. Trump posts stupidity on Truth social? Market reacts almost instantly. The algo's are actually rather predictable these days.
Should be pretty easy for you to make money then, I look forward to your great success. Cheers.
 
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Flobee

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You need to give more evidence if you're making such a statement.
Evidence? For the straight being closed creating liquidity issues in the global market and likely resulting in a flight of capital away from risk? Evidence for capital moving away from USD assets and into Yuan, the currency now required for safe access? I don't need evidence, that's just simple observation for how capital flows are currently shifting. My point here is that markets, especially something like the S&P is FAR more sensitive to liquidity than it is to anything the specific companies sitting at the top of the index are doing.

Thats not something I need to prove, thats something you should investigate yourself if you don't understand. Are you aware of how our market is actually structured due to our reserve currency status? That is currently being threatened. If you don't understand how massive the foreign capital position is in our markets you (or really, anyone reading this) may not understand the risks in the market right now. There is no guarantee things go sideways, but this is about as risky a spot as we've been in my life at least. Jysin Jysin 's assessment is correct as far as I can see.

I'm by no means a doomer, but if oil trade outside the USD continues to accelerate and something drastic doesn't change there will absolutely be a lot of capital move out of our markets simply because its only here due to international trade requiring USD, so these entities hold USD denominated assets to shelter that capital. When Trump says he's going to re-shore production etc, he is also saying he's going to end USD reserve status, because you can't re-shore and be the reserve currency. That is what is happening and there WILL be affects to capital structures. Thats another discussion, but it is inevitably going to put downward pressure on US markets until something is done to plug that hole.

Happy to let someone smarter than me talk about all the medium-long term effects from the supply chain issues caused by the straight closure.

Edit: Some evidence since I'm up too early
The six Gulf countries’ eleven sovereign wealth funds invest about $2 trillion in the U.S, which is over 35% of their total assets under management. Thse countries invest in U.S. stocks, bonds, alternative investments such as hedge funds, real estate, and infrastructure. Over 25% of the total Gulf investments in the U.S. are in equities and about 17% are in fixed income products, especially U.S. Treasuries.


Too hard to find an actualy synopsis on the topic, so thanks AI:
Reshoring U.S. manufacturing while maintaining the USD as the global reserve currency presents a fundamental conflict, as the "reserve currency status" requires the U.S. to run trade deficits to supply dollars globally, often undermining domestic industrial growth. While some officials argue this status acts as a tax on American producers, experts argue that forced de-dollarization through tariffs could cause massive, rapid economic disruption. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Key Dynamics of US Reshoring and the Dollar:
  • The "Triffin Dilemma": To keep the dollar as the world's primary reserve, the U.S. must issue debt and run trade deficits to provide global liquidity. Reshoring and trade protectionism (e.g., tariffs) run contrary to this, as reducing imports would diminish the global supply of dollars.
  • Industrial Base vs. Reserve Status: Some U.S. officials argue that the dollar’s status has "hollowed out" the American industrial base. Proposals to reverse this include taxing foreign holdings of U.S. Treasuries to force a dollar devaluation, thereby aiding local manufacturing.
  • Alternatives Lack Maturity: While the US dollar has seen a slow decline in share to roughly 58% of global reserves, it still leads by a wide margin over the Euro (~20%), with no immediate viable alternative to take its place.
  • Challenges to Reshoring: Even if manufacturing moves back, high automation means that widespread reshoring may not bring back massive manufacturing jobs, with capital gains and technology advancements driving productivity rather than labor-intensive manufacturing. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
Implications of a Shift:
If the U.S. successfully forces a reduction in the dollar’s role, it would likely mean a weaker dollar, lower long-term debt service costs, but potential volatility in global trade and financial markets

Foreign investors hold approximately 20% of all total U.S. securities outstanding, with the share varying by asset type, according to data from the U.S. Department of the Treasury. Due to the dollar's status as the primary reserve currency, foreign ownership is highest in Treasuries at about 30–33%, while representing roughly 17–20% of U.S. equities. [1, 2, 3]
Key Foreign Capital Ownership Percentages
  • Total U.S. Securities: ~20%
  • U.S. Treasuries: ~30–33%
  • Corporate Debt: ~27%
  • Equities (Stocks): ~17–20% [1, 2, 3, 4]


Foreign investors hold US assets for a number of reasons, but primarily because of USD reserve status. If that status is in question, some of that capital moves and that is a hole that needs to be plugged, likely with $$$ printing in some form. Simple reality of the situation accelerated by the Hormuz situation. Plenty of reasons we could see a large decline in S&P. IMO they're gunna paper over that loss when it happens but there is a reason Berkshire is sitting on $373 billion in cash for example.

For fun, little clip of Luke Gromen on the topic, he's been lights-out on macro for the past year or so btw
 
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fris

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self fulfilling prophecy

people think the market will drop, so they pull $$ out of the market. but high gas prices will pull down just about any physical product directly, and slow everyone's spending on everything else.
 

Borzak

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A lot of stuff that are a physical product have some tie in to not only energy/oil but stuff made in related petro chemical. Everything from tires, fertilizer, plastics etc. all start at a refinery then off to a chem plant (often adjacent to a refinery) via feed stocks and onto to whatever industry that makes the final product. I'm sure that will take more time to work through than oil.

I used to have a pmaphlet one of the chem plants handed out of all the things made in that industry. Not name brands but types of stuff was like 400 and several pages. Cleaning stuff used around the house was a big one.
 
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ToeMissile

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A lot of stuff that are a physical product have some tie in to not only energy/oil but stuff made in related petro chemical. Everything from tires, fertilizer, plastics etc. all start at a refinery then off to a chem plant (often adjacent to a refinery) via feed stocks and onto to whatever industry that makes the final product. I'm sure that will take more time to work through than oil.

I used to have a pmaphlet one of the chem plants handed out of all the things made in that industry. Not name brands but types of stuff was like 400 and several pages. Cleaning stuff used around the house was a big one.
This was brought up on something I was listening to recently. Nitrogen and helium being two where ~25% or more is manufactured in the greater region and/or goes through Hormuz.
Nitrogen > fertilizer > US farmers.
Helium > medical devices, chip fab, more > healthcare & compute capacity a
 

Borzak

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Sulphur was another, but no idea what it is used for. Gunpowder but I am not sure that is the issue. A large issue in the US is plants shutting down and the rest contracting to the US.
 

Borzak

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WalMart has a sign when you enter that petroleum products are going up in price. Stuff like bath soap, dishwashing soap, etc... they had a really long list and I skipped it.
 

Borzak

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Not the price of oil but the energy sector is up more than 30% YTD. Did not see that coming at the start of the year.

Crude down 15% early.
 
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Sheriff Cad

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Oil at 96 (down from 112 yesterday) and market +2.5% today.

Don't fuck it up guys. Bring all our shit home and get back to making money.
 
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Furry

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Not the price of oil but the energy sector is up more than 30% YTD. Did not see that coming at the start of the year.

Crude down 15% early.
My relatives in the oil industry say its not just a good year, but literally the best year they've ever had even if it ended already. He was telling me they sold more in the past two weeks than they do most years. Between data centers, oil prices being high, and blown up stuff needing replaced, its a perfect nexus of cash and spending making the energy sector very happy. Even without higher oil prices they'd still be doing gangbusters.
 

Borzak

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It's been up and down in the various sub sectors of the industry sector since the conflict in Iran started. But I mentioned it here that refining had been up 30% or so for the year before things in Iran started. Midstream (pipelines) had really been on a roller coast. Energy is still up >30 % YTD currently. I didn't buy any integrated energy ("big oil") but when I posted about refining back in early February before this started I put some into CRAK (a refining ETF) and that is short term with a short leash on it. The only other two things I own in energy is a S&P index fund which obvioiusly covers XOM and such and a small holding of XOM that I inherited. It's all very subect to up and down in the short term for political and other reasons.
 

Haus

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Oil at 96 (down from 112 yesterday) and market +2.5% today.

Don't fuck it up guys. Bring all our shit home and get back to making money.
Looking at the headlines this morning when I woke up Trump seems to commit to keeping people there "until a peace deal is done and followed through on". And Israel is doing it's second day massive strikes on Lebanon (which Iran sees as a ceasefire violation). Iran has locked the straight back down. Stocks down a touch, and WTI back over $100.....
 

Sheriff Cad

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Looking at the headlines this morning when I woke up Trump seems to commit to keeping people there "until a peace deal is done and followed through on". And Israel is doing it's second day massive strikes on Lebanon (which Iran sees as a ceasefire violation). Iran has locked the straight back down. Stocks down a touch, and WTI back over $100.....
I'm about even for the year, I'd just like to not start retirement down 7 figures...
 
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Haus

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I'm about even for the year, I'd just like to not start retirement down 7 figures...
I'm still down a tiny bit for the year, but mostly because of the one large stock holding I know I need to diversify (stock in the company I work for). Just trying to figure out the best way (i.e. least expensive from a tax event standpoint) to diversify it.
 

Sheriff Cad

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That was us. Retired basically November 1st in 2021. Think we took a 20-25% haircut just 3 months into it. We've recovered and then some, obviously.
Our spending is so low relative to our assets that I'm sure it's not a thing, just not an encouraging sign to be down and also saying you want to quit. Obviously need to stop trying to min/max it and just not look at it.