Investment Property

Blazin

Creative Title
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Just signed a contract on my first piece of investment property. I have bought several properties before but never one solely as an investment so this is new ground for me. Hoping over the next few years to phase out of contracting and into real estate for long term cash flow. Just wanted to share my experience if it might be helpful to others or if any commercial/industrial landlords want to chime in that would be great.

I don't want to own residential property, this piece is distribution and warehouse and it's not that big, I wanted to start with something smaller not wanting to make rookie mistake with large sums of money.

Property Info:

4700 sq ft
Warehouse
12-15' ceilings
3 dock doors
2 Ground lvl drive in doors
Small office area, ample parking sitting on a level 0.50 acre lot
It's a free span (means no internal columns) steel structure with metal siding and roof.

Listed at $238,500.00

This is a little spreadsheet I use when looking at real estate from an income perspective.

rrr_img_15202.jpg


There are plenty of people investing in real estate who are happy with a cap rate of 6-8%, I'm trying to be a little more patient/picky and see if I can beat that, usually requires taking more risk, but one my primary reasons for doing this is to take more risk than I currently do with stock and bond investments where I'm usually averaging 5-6% because I tend to be too risk adverse (for example I'm currently out of the market like a freaking tard biscuit).

As far as lease rates, the property is currently leased at $5.95/sq ft. This is high for warehouse space in my area and the premium is being paid for the easily accessible dock doors on a small sized building. That combination can be very hard to find. However, the tenants lease is up in early 2014 and I didn't want to take the risk that I could keep them or find a new tenant at that high of a rate so I plugged in at $5 sq ft then increasing 3% a year after 2017. Again I'm trying to be on the conservative side with my estimates to see if the property is still attractive at those numbers.

I also took into account the type of construction and what it would cost to build this building and his asking price put it over $50/sq ft which I felt was high for a steel structure of this type. So I put in my offer at $200,000, he very quickly countered saying the lowest he would go was $215,000 and I told him my price was not going to change. I figured it was a dead issue at that pt. The agent called again saying he'll go as low as $206,000 but that was the lowest he'd go, again I said my price wasn't changing. They now come back and tell me they'll take my offer.

So I have 30 days to settle and become a landlord. I'm going to borrow part of it, and I haven't had a loan for anything since 2005 so that is a little stressful not because the payment is that daunting but borrowing always feels like digging a hole to me, but I know I can't make this transition away from contracting if I don't start to leverage.

From a negotiation stand point I absolutely love buying something I don't need, if I went into this "wanting" it I may have paid a good bit more than I did, but I figured if he said no it was no big deal and I would just look for someone more eager. I plan to take all the cash flow from this to pay it off then use it to fund another property. It will probably take a few years to get any decent size snowball going but I'm not getting any younger and there are lots of girls on the internet who need my money.
 

Candiarie_sl

shitlord
43
0
Is the management expense what you think it will cost you to manage or are you paying a management company 7%? To do what?
It's also interesting that your property tax/insurance are so small. I'm only familiar with residential and for some reason thought that commercial would be higher.
 

Blazin

Creative Title
<Nazi Janitors>
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Is the management expense what you think it will cost you to manage or are you paying a management company 7%? To do what?
It's also interesting that your property tax/insurance are so small. I'm only familiar with residential and for some reason thought that commercial would be higher.
The commercial Realtor who sold the current lease gets a cut of the lease each month. They can handle writing up lease documents and collecting checks not really "managing" or it's more of a sales commission. What I'm not sure is next year if the tenant renews do I still owe that company a cut. If they find you a tenant you can pay them 5% upfront or 7% of each payment.

As far as taxes I was really surprised in my municipality just 30 mins away the taxes would be double, this is a more rural borough and school taxes are a fraction of the larger schools in the area.

I put 6% as the rate just to be on the conservative side, with the outlook on rates looking like we are going to be low for the foreseeable future I'm tempted to get the loan as a floating rate at NY Prime
 

Blazin

Creative Title
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Update if anyone is interested. I lucked out on this one, tenant just renewed for several more years and at over $6/sf. Now I'm torn on keeping it and just enjoy the tenant paying for the property or try to sell it. With the lease I now have on it and a cap rate of 8% would put the property value near $350,000 and I picked it up for $200,800. Financially conservative part of me wants to sell and cash out but feeling like I should probably hold onto it.
 

splorge

Silver Knight of the Realm
235
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Could you actually sell the property now for 350k after only four months? Are there comparables nearby that have sold for similar amounts? If so, this represents a return of 650% /annum. If the net profit from the deal (150k less costs) represents a significant portion of your net work (over 1/3) then I would suggest selling it. If you feel that the valuation is solid, and little danger of a retracement, and the investment is a minor part of your porfolio, then feel free to keep it.
 

Tmac

Adventurer
<Gold Donor>
9,327
15,847
Update if anyone is interested. I lucked out on this one, tenant just renewed for several more years and at over $6/sf. Now I'm torn on keeping it and just enjoy the tenant paying for the property or try to sell it. With the lease I now have on it and a cap rate of 8% would put the property value near $350,000 and I picked it up for $200,800. Financially conservative part of me wants to sell and cash out but feeling like I should probably hold onto it.
I agree with your conservative side. If, and only if, you can cash out for +150k. That's a huge profit.
 

Gadrel_sl

shitlord
465
3
Update if anyone is interested. I lucked out on this one, tenant just renewed for several more years and at over $6/sf. Now I'm torn on keeping it and just enjoy the tenant paying for the property or try to sell it. With the lease I now have on it and a cap rate of 8% would put the property value near $350,000 and I picked it up for $200,800. Financially conservative part of me wants to sell and cash out but feeling like I should probably hold onto it.
Absolutely do not sell the property: Foremost, you're going to pay short-term capital gains on the transaction, which are taxed at ordinary income. In your case, this would likely be 40%! Second, if the property is as good of a deal as you say, then you should be able to finance the acquisition of subsequent properties using the equity and/or income from this property. Finally, by selling the property you will miss out on any depreciation write-offs which you may accrue down the road.

The better option for you would be to use this property to finance the acquisition of others.

You are not my client and this is investment, not legal, advice.
 

Blazin

Creative Title
<Nazi Janitors>
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I think I'm going to keep it and as you suggested use the cash flow to save up for another property. If I cashed out I would end up just putting it into the market and I don't think I could consistently beat the rate of return that I'm getting here. And yes the tax bite would suck, only thing I was considering there is I currently have a $20,000 short term capital loss carryover. I can only use $3,000 of it a year unless I have a short term cap gain to offset it, but this would be a good bit bigger gain than that. My income is too high from other sources right now and is very likely to go down over the next few years at which time selling may make more sense.

I'm only rather lost in that I don't know long term where I want to be in regards to real estate. I only want to own commercial/industrial property but I don't know if I want several properties on the low side of the market or try to work towards one property in the $1-2MM range. On bigger industrial properties 10-15yr leases are more common and the small stuff is rarely over 3-5 years in buildings 15-25 years older.
 

OU Ariakas

Diet Dr. Pepper Enjoyer
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I have a few questions for the real estate people on this board. My wife and I have decided that our retirement strategy is going to be one where we make $90k pre tax from rental property income a year to fund retirement. We started down the path a year ago by purschasing two 3 bedroom houses for about 85k each that we rent out for $900/month. We net around $350/month per house all in. We just moved 800 miles away and could not sell the our 160k house fast enough so we signed a tenent for 2 years at $1500 month. We will break even all in on that one for about a year and then we will start making about $250/month going forward. At the end of the two years we are going to try and sell it and use the money to either a.) pay down/off the current rentals or b.) finance two more of the lower priced rentals. Is selling it the correct way to go? If we do sell it would we be beter off paying off the current rentals or financing new ones?
 

Kedwyn

Silver Squire
3,915
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I have a few questions for the real estate people on this board. My wife and I have decided that our retirement strategy is going to be one where we make $90k pre tax from rental property income a year to fund retirement. We started down the path a year ago by purschasing two 3 bedroom houses for about 85k each that we rent out for $900/month. We net around $350/month per house all in. We just moved 800 miles away and could not sell the our 160k house fast enough so we signed a tenent for 2 years at $1500 month. We will break even all in on that one for about a year and then we will start making about $250/month going forward. At the end of the two years we are going to try and sell it and use the money to either a.) pay down/off the current rentals or b.) finance two more of the lower priced rentals. Is selling it the correct way to go? If we do sell it would we be beter off paying off the current rentals or financing new ones?
I've always preferred paying off the current rentals first then expanding. There is much more safety that way and you can pay things down much faster by going that route. If you expand quickly via credit its certainly do-able but much more risky with far smaller margin for error. Becoming fully leveraged like that can be problematic should you hit a spell where you can't rent a few properties but still have significant note costs eating up much of your rental income.

I'm not really a single family fan either. I'd recommend going duplex or larger. They really don't cost that much more and you end up with double the rents. I've found 4-6 units to be the best money makers by far.
 

kegkilla

The Big Mod
<Banned>
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thinking about buying my first investment property. it's a 3 story, 3 unit place 2600 total sq ft in an up and coming area of the city. bottom floor is zoned commercial, top two are residential. right off the bat i could likely collect about $2,000 in monthly rental fees (it currently has tenants) against the $1,000 mortgage expense. what considerations should i make while approaching this project? what are the right questions to ask, etc.
 

Lendarios

Trump's Staff
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Any outstanding liens on the property? What is the state of roof, ceilings and pipes? Anything that you will be on the hook for as the owner, get it inspected. Make sure all permits are in order, fire codes inspections. Taxes on the properties, any back due?
 

kegkilla

The Big Mod
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solid points there. it is currently owned by an property management company so i'd imagine they are fine with the permits and taxes, but i'll be sure to confirm.
 

kegkilla

The Big Mod
<Banned>
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am i allowed to solicit the commercial space to businesses that i am i fan of? i.e. i'd much rather have a primo's down stairs than a check cashing joint... or is that in violation of some sort of anti competitive law?
 

Kedwyn

Silver Squire
3,915
80
I wouldn't mess with the tenants unless there is a specific problem you're looking to fix. Commercial space is notoriously difficult to get reliable tenants. Restaurants are also incredibly expensive to set up and they usually look for an offset with the landlord.

Make sure you get a good local inspector to go through the place so you know what you're buying. Biggest expenses are the roof and appliances (especially HVAC and Heat). Get in there and inspect the apartments yourself as well with the inspector. Don't trust the management company to have anything done they are mostly run by high functioning morons.

Check for back taxes, liens and pending suits. Get the income statement for the property for the last 5 years and see where the money is going and calculate your ROI based on the new numbers. Don't forget your taxes will like increase depending on their base and what its selling for. Shop for insurance because new policies are often more expensive than the older ones. Sometimes not but depending on area it can be a big difference.

Make sure when you calculate your ROI you include a misc section because your budget is always wrong and its almost always higher than you expect, especially if you're a newb at this. Never, never count on 100% occupancy.
 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
23,382
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Are you managing maintenance or are you hiring a third party?

Depends on the city but I'd plan on 0% commercial occupancy to see your most conservative estimate, as stated commercial can stay empty for long long periods and most LT leases on commercial give concessions like 3-6 mo free, buildout help, etc.
 

LachiusTZ

Rogue Deathwalker Box
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Sell drugs and run hookers out of the bottom floor, find someone out of arms reach relationship wise to rent it, launder the fuck out of the $$$$. Crank the insurance up to the max.

In 2 years, burn it down.