IT people & Software Engineers - tell me what you think of this

Joeboo

Joeboo

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Learn to Code JavaScript and get a Coding Job by Helping Nonprofits | Free Code Camp

Basically, its a not-for-profit website/company that puts you through a pretty extensive online training program which teaches programming in HTML5, CSS5, Javascript, etc.

It's roughly 200 hours of classes, 600 hours of practicing coding, and then 800 hours of actual coding projects(apps, websites) for not-for-profit companies. You're working for free here, but building a portfolio of professional projects to *in theory* land you a job once the entire 1600-hour plan is complete.

Anyone heard of this or anything like it before? Any ideas what the realistic job options would be for someone who had completed a training course like this. Would most employers even bother looking at someone with no formal diploma or certification, but has a handful of projects in their portfolio over a ~6 month period.

I went to college in the late 90s for a Comp Sci degree, but only stayed 2 1/2 years, didn't finish my degree. I've always been interested in getting back into coding/programming but just never had the time or money to actually go back to college. I'm curious if this would be any sort of viable alternative. I have a friend that started this about a month ago, but he's still in the learning phase, so I have no real idea what someones job prospects would look like once they completed something like this.

What are your guys thoughts? I just don't want to waste a year of my time doing all of this, and having it get me nowhere in the end.
 
Noodleface

Noodleface

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One thing you can do is check outlearn programming, a lot of people on there talk about these coding boot camps. They might be able to tell you if this one is specifically worth looking into.

I think for some companies, they're going to want to see a degree (even if it isn't comp sci), but you can definitely find jobs if you're self-taught or go through a coding boot camp.
 
ShakyJake

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joeboo_sl said:
Learn to Code JavaScript and get a Coding Job by Helping Nonprofits | Free Code Camp

Basically, its a not-for-profit website/company that puts you through a pretty extensive online training program which teaches programming in HTML5, CSS5, Javascript, etc.
Click to expand...
That's actually very interesting. I already know how to code but, as I've mentioned before on this forum, would love to use some of the newer web technologies. I wouldn't mind donating my time for one of these in order to practice the cool new stuff.
 
Vinen

Vinen

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joeboo_sl said:
Learn to Code JavaScript and get a Coding Job by Helping Nonprofits | Free Code Camp

Basically, its a not-for-profit website/company that puts you through a pretty extensive online training program which teaches programming in HTML5, CSS5, Javascript, etc.

It's roughly 200 hours of classes, 600 hours of practicing coding, and then 800 hours of actual coding projects(apps, websites) for not-for-profit companies. You're working for free here, but building a portfolio of professional projects to *in theory* land you a job once the entire 1600-hour plan is complete.

Anyone heard of this or anything like it before? Any ideas what the realistic job options would be for someone who had completed a training course like this. Would most employers even bother looking at someone with no formal diploma or certification, but has a handful of projects in their portfolio over a ~6 month period.

I went to college in the late 90s for a Comp Sci degree, but only stayed 2 1/2 years, didn't finish my degree. I've always been interested in getting back into coding/programming but just never had the time or money to actually go back to college. I'm curious if this would be any sort of viable alternative. I have a friend that started this about a month ago, but he's still in the learning phase, so I have no real idea what someones job prospects would look like once they completed something like this.

What are your guys thoughts? I just don't want to waste a year of my time doing all of this, and having it get me nowhere in the end.
Click to expand...
Depends. You won't learn the code fundamentals of good code from this.

There is also zero chance you will be hired by any company with a HR department unless you have a referral. Even then. Probably not-

You will need to find a start-up or other small companies which as Celestine states does not give a shit. Even then, you will need to probably develop and app on your own to prove yourself. I'd look into contributing to an open source project in some way shape or form.
 
T

The Master

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If you can code and are being interviewed by coders, they will not give a shit what your training is like. All of those people know tons of good coders who learned by fucking around on their own, sometimes since they were kids. If you can code and are being interviewed by someone who does not code and therefore their only metric is degrees/certs, they'll care.
 
Vinen

Vinen

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Not going to lie. I have worked with a grand total of zero good developers who didn't graduate from College/University. Ability to code is not the only metric.

Not saying there are not hard working people out there who didn't go to College. Just stating that in general it is safe to discard the resumes of those who didn't finish College. (Yes! There are major outliers there but they tend to start their own company and own shit
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)
 
T

Tenks

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It would be pretty hard these days simply to get past the HR resume filter not having a degree.

Also people who graduated from ITT/DeVry just go in the trash
 
C

chantmaster

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I'll flag in under don't give a shit, however expect promotions to be harder to get without a degree.

Basically, you'll always be measured as 10% less than what you deliver, so you need to be hell on wheels to be seen as good.
 
Vinen

Vinen

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chantmaster_sl said:
I'll flag in under don't give a shit, however expect promotions to be harder to get without a degree.

Basically, you'll always be measured as 10% less than what you deliver, so you need to be hell on wheels to be seen as good.
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More or less. Junior positions are for people who a College education. Few companies will offer Junior positions to a non-College Educated person.
As stated before. To differentiate yourself you have to show proof of work. Open Source projects, Personal projects, Apps, etc... Without this you are nothing.
A College education at least states you could complete College. You have nothing to even show this until any of the aforementioned is done.

The positive of the program you mentioned is that it does have an "internship" aspect. This is a hard requirement to get a junior position in this day and age so this is a very good plus. Why not just go back and get a College Degree? Its about the same amount of work at a night program? (which cost pennies compared to a full day program)
 
T

Tenks

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I had a job as an intern software tester using RFT which you basically wrote Java to automate tests. RFT kind of stunk out of the box so me and another guy wrote a pretty sizable framework around it to actually make it useful. I learned far, far more about programming in the real world at my internship than I ever learned in college. Plus I had a stack of applications I could bring into interviews to show that "Yes I know I just graduated but I actually know how to program."
 
wormie

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If one goes to indeed, glassdoor, dice, stackexchange careers and whatever other places with job postings for programming jobs, one will find numerous job postings for junior positions asking for a degree OR equivalent experience. Seems like a degree is not a set in stone requirement as long as, like a lot of others here said, a person has some non trivial projects completed.
 
Kovaks

Kovaks

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We don't require a degree for junior positions it is either a degree or experience. Hr hates relive exp for higher levels though. Harder for them to screen
 
ShakyJake

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At my current company I started out in operations answering tech support calls. During that time I learned .NET and C#, read tons of books, wrote various tools, and proved I could code. I was promoted to software engineer a couple years ago. No degree (although I am working on one) and I feel I'm the proverbial "rockstar" developer in our group (which isn't saying much... see below).

I can say, though, the "software engineers" where I work that do have a degree are laughable. Most have a rudimentary understanding of the programming languages and frameworks we use. It's as if most got out of college, learned enough for their position and never pursued it further.

And I think that's the gist of it -- the software development world advances rapidly. Just because someone earned a CS degree ten years ago means jack shit if you need a developer that is an expert in, say, mobile application development. I would like to think that experience trumps all.
 
Borzak

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Have you looked at an "IT" posistion at a small company" We pay our IT guy who simply keeps our PC's up and running and updated, keeps mail flowing in and out and a small server for 35 people in the same office $85k a year, cover 100% of insurance, give a profit sharing bonus that averages about 5% of gross pay and the normal stuff like 2 weeks vacation, 401k and all that crap. Not sure what you expect for a salary. He doesn't have a degree and neither did the guy before him.

That idea will probably be scoffed at by most in the IT world. Just an idea.

Could be a foot in the door, but has no bearing on programming or development or anything like that at all.
 
Mist

Mist

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Borzak_sl said:
Have you looked at an "IT" posistion at a small company" We pay our IT guy who simply keeps our PC's up and running and updated, keeps mail flowing in and out and a small server for 35 people in the same office $85k a year, cover 100% of insurance, give a profit sharing bonus that averages about 5% of gross pay and the normal stuff like 2 weeks vacation, 401k and all that crap. Not sure what you expect for a salary. He doesn't have a degree and neither did the guy before him.

That idea will probably be scoffed at by most in the IT world. Just an idea.

Could be a foot in the door, but has no bearing on programming or development or anything like that at all.
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IT and programming are pretty far apart.

IT people are basically very specialized custodians. They keep the machines running, and deploy new shit. They keep up on the newest products from the newest vendors, retain knowledge of legacy systems, and know how to get them all working on the same network, or when to separate them if that's not possible. The good ones know how to train others on said shit. Most IT workers will write very little code, some scripts. Some positions will obviously vary.

Programmers code algorithms. Good algorithmic logic can be learned with a lot of practice, which usually comes from schooling, but can certainly come from hobbyist programming or freelance work or working at a startup or whatever. But we're talking thousands of hours. Really great algorithmic logic is a gift. Good programmers can be trained or can teach themselves, but the best programmers are *born.* And even if you have a bunch of good programmers and a few great ones, their work can turn out like shit if the project isn't managed well, if programming tasks aren't assigned to the best people for that particular job. Or you can have a warehouse full of mediocre programmers and lousy managers, and your name can be Oracle or CGI Federal.
 
Borzak

Borzak

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I know the difference, just pointing out what the pay scale at the low end might be for someone in another role without a degree.
 
C

chantmaster

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"No degree (although I am working on one)" Kind of says it all.

Even if you do get in, you will eventually wish for a degree, so you start getting measured fairly, both by yourself and others.
Otherwise you will always be using the degree holders as your yard stick when measuring up.

This said, the top 0.5%'ers can easily manage without, but the top 0.01%'ers can probably manage without grade school too.. so...
 
Vinen

Vinen

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chantmaster_sl said:
"No degree (although I am working on one)" Kind of says it all.

Even if you do get in, you will eventually wish for a degree, so you start getting measured fairly, both by yourself and others.
Otherwise you will always be using the degree holders as your yard stick when measuring up.

This said, the top 0.5%'ers can easily manage without, but the top 0.01%'ers can probably manage without grade school too.. so...
Click to expand...
The whole problem with a degree is that there are so many applicants that it becomes a filtering method.
IE: No Degree == Trash bin.

To bypass this you need to network, network, network. My wife hates this book but its worth a read
Never Eat Alone: And Other Secrets to Success, One Relationship at a Time: Keith Ferrazzi, Tahl Raz, Richard, Jr. Harris: 9781419359828: Amazon.com: Books
 
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