IT/Software career thread: Invert binary trees for dollars.

Tenks_sl said:

I've already asked in this thread for reasons C# is so much better than Java and I've gotten a few novelty reasons. Also having worked with the MS VS IDE throughout college (so this maybe dated) Intellij is just as good if not better. Not to mention I don't think C# has any equivalent to a Hadoop like ecosystem.

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You didn't get novelty responses. You just found none of them compelling.

Tenks_sl said:

I've already asked in this thread for reasons C# is so much better than Java and I've gotten a few novelty reasons.

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Well, for one I feel it's easier to learn. The Microsoft stack is pretty set. With Visual Studio, SQL Server, C# and ASP.NET you've got everything you need to build anything. And any books and guides are centered around those.

Like I mentioned above, I'm trying to learn more about Java EE and finding a cohesive guide that tells me exactly what to do to get a simple web app up and running has been impossible. There are just so many IDEs, RDMS, web containers, web frameworks, etc. etc. for Java that the books I've found remain intentionally vague to the point where, as a newcomer, you end up lost.

ShakyJake_sl said:

Well, for one I feel it's easier to learn. The Microsoft stack is pretty set. With Visual Studio, SQL Server, C# and ASP.NET you've got everything you need to build anything. And any books and guides are centered around those.

Like I mentioned above, I'm trying to learn more about Java EE and finding a cohesive guide that tells me exactly what to do to get a simple web app up and running has been impossible. There are just so many IDEs, RDMS, web containers, web frameworks, etc. etc. for Java that the books I've found remain intentionally vague to the point where, as a newcomer, you end up lost.

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It depends on which web container you want. For the most part you can pull a Maven archetype for any of them and get it up and running with a simple command. Jetty probably being the easiest to get stood up.

Tenks_sl said:

It depends on which web container you want. For the most part you can pull a Maven archetype for any of them and get it up and running with a simple command. Jetty probably being the easiest to get stood up.

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Yeah, see, that's what I'm talking about. I'd like a guide/book that says, hey, go install X, Y, and Z pieces of software and then gradually build on examples. Adam Freeman's (Apress) books on ASP.NET 4.5 MVC and his AngularJS book are fucking fantastic in this regard.

I have Wrox's "Professional Java for Web Applications". It's starts off really well, going into the history of Java and getting the initial set up installed -- I have Tomcat working. But then it launches into Maven dependencies with little explanation where they go (figured that out). Then we create a servlet class which doesn't build correctly and with no clear explanation of wtf is going on. I'm sure my dev environment must not be set up correctly somewhere -- I just haven't had time to really dig into it.

And I think that's the jist of my feelings towards C# vs. Java. A .NET development environment is super simple to set up.

Oh, FYI, for anyone actually interested in learning the Java language, check out Apress'sBeginning Java 8 Fundamentalsby Kishori Sharan. Really good book that did, in fact, explain things well and the examples worked out of the box.

Tomcat Maven plugin Archetype

Pretty much explains step-by-step the basics of getting a Tomcat set up. Maybe it is easier for me since I know all the lingo of what to look up in the Java world. Half of being a Java developer is just knowing the right words to google.

Tenks_sl said:

Tomcat Maven plugin Archetype

Pretty much explains step-by-step the basics of getting a Tomcat set up. Maybe it is easier for me since I know all the lingo of what to look up in the Java world. Half of being a Java developer is just knowing the right words to google.

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Terrible steps for someone new to it. I think he's referring to a complete end-to-end starting with a fresh eclipse IDE.

Something like this.
Vishal Joshi's Tangent: Creating a simple ASP.NET 4 Web App using Visual Studio 2010

This leaves the IDE choice up to the developer. Any (full featured) Java IDE can open a POM file and create a fresh project from it.

I think you're running into a case of "I know A so B is terrible"

Tenks_sl said:

This leaves the IDE choice up to the developer. Any (full featured) Java IDE can open a POM file and create a fresh project from it.

I think you're running into a case of "I know A so B is terrible"

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You're being willfully ignorant. ShakyJake gave you a very clear answer as to why he feels C# is better, because he feels it's easier to learn and work with. You're just waving it off as him not trying hard enough or something.

Celestein_sl said:

C#/ASP.NET/etc have a gigantic performance penalty on *nix architecture(worse than Ruby until very recently). Mono is absolutely garbage at running a web server. Granted, with .net going more open source I don't expect the current state of affairs to continue, but the reality for a long time is that if you wanted or needed to use *nix for a web server, then anything in the MS ecosystem was de facto out of the running. So there has been a very valid reason for a long time to avoid it.

That said, love the JVM, hate Java.

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Ahh, wasn't sure how far Mono/Xaramin had gotten. Been YEARS since I've actually played around with Mono.

Cad_sl said:

With how mature both languages/frameworks are I can't imagine there's any compelling advantages one way or the other.

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Have you ever dealt with the open source community? It's outright hostile to new people so the documentation is crap.

I swear every person I've dealt with wants to be the next Linus (who by any measure, admitted even, is a complete douchebag)

Khane_sl said:

You're being willfully ignorant. ShakyJake gave you a very clear answer as to why he feels C# is better, because he feels it's easier to learn and work with. You're just waving it off as him not trying hard enough or something.

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Because I think he may have started at the wrong point. He's using Maven but doesn't seem to understand exactly how it works and what it does. I can understand being in the MS ecosystem may be comforting because everything is already built in but it isn't like Java is any harder to get any of this working. Probably the biggest issue with Java and it's open source network is some dependency clashes where you have to exclude almost the world from my external dependencies or else it'll overwrite your logging frameworks you actually want to use. Even then running a simple Maven dependency tree will point you exactly where this clash is occurring.

I haven't committed directly to an open source repository but I've filed jiras for them. They seem fairly receptive of any ideas or issues. But they were both fairly young and small projects (sqoop and giraph specifically.) It would be harder to break into coding for a more mature project.

Tenks_sl said:

I haven't committed directly to an open source repository but I've filed jiras for them. They seem fairly receptive of any ideas or issues. But they were both fairly young and small projects (sqoop and giraph specifically.) It would be harder to break into coding for a more mature project.

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I've submited Pull requests for bugs on a couple of large well known projects. That's less the problem as code can speak for itself.

It's more requesting help. Many of them expect instant understanding of the entire framework, it's history and all intricate details.
And provide no documentation.

I have to say my experience has been quite a bit different. I use Maven and Spring a lot and both of them are very well documented. Many mature Apache projects also have solid documentation.

Tuco_sl said:

So what's the best web developer IDE for someone familiar with C++ development and using Centos (similar to ubuntu) and mongoose (small C++ webserver). I'm mostly writing html, css, js, jquery, canvasjs.

I'm apprentice level when it comes to web development and do it so irregularly that the libraries, syntax etc of all the different pieces represent a big learning curve that I hope to climb with the help of a decent IDE.

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Eclipse? Last C dev I did was on a Microsoft Platform... god I miss Visual Studio so much (2010, newer versions have been trash)

Tuco_sl said:

So what's the best web developer IDE for someone familiar with C++ development and using Centos (similar to ubuntu) and mongoose (small C++ webserver). I'm mostly writing html, css, js, jquery, canvasjs.

I'm apprentice level when it comes to web development and do it so irregularly that the libraries, syntax etc of all the different pieces represent a big learning curve that I hope to climb with the help of a decent IDE.

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Well, I don't know about the whole C++ thing, but I recommend JetBrain's WebStorm for web development. I already had some basic experience with their IntelliJ IDE for Java so Webstorm was already familiar to me. But I feel it's pretty easy to get comfortable with if you have no prior experience.