IT/Software career thread: Invert binary trees for dollars.

Khane

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To add to that, as a separate post just to talk specifically about how Claude Code operates. It does things you never asked it to do. It needs access to a repo to work so it can pretend it needs to also write test harnesses and cases to check its own work and then refactor 2, 3, 10 fucking times for simple tasks you give it for the sake of "perfection". Its a huge waste of compute and I stopped using it altogether after about a month and instead stick to cowork because I can give it a task and it just performs that specific task.
 

Control

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I mean, as long as you're happy paying the price for what you're getting out of it, that seems reasonable enough. Isn't that how all businesses ultimately work? In my case (at least the one I outlined above), I could compare models by having them write the same thing and at different thinking levels. I could probably optimize by having opus outline, haiku research and do the initial pass, and then test the results using different models on the different review/audit passes. or I can let opus do it all and end up with around 150 articles/500k words for $50 that was going to evaporate anyway since I hadn't used my quota this week. Of course, if I optimized, I might be able to get double the output with a similar quality, but the work of optimizing has a cost too. Probably worth doing if you're going to run a content mill, not so much if you're just experimenting though.
 

Khane

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I mean, as long as you're happy paying the price for what you're getting out of it, that seems reasonable enough. Isn't that how all businesses ultimately work? In my case (at least the one I outlined above), I could compare models by having them write the same thing and at different thinking levels. I could probably optimize by having opus outline, haiku research and do the initial pass, and then test the results using different models on the different review/audit passes. or I can let opus do it all and end up with around 150 articles/500k words for $50 that was going to evaporate anyway since I hadn't used my quota this week. Of course, if I optimized, I might be able to get double the output with a similar quality, but the work of optimizing has a cost too. Probably worth doing if you're going to run a content mill, not so much if you're just experimenting though.

This is shortsighted, you're speaking in today's pricing terms. This is the point I am making.
 
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Control

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This is shortsighted, you're speaking in today's pricing terms. This is the point I am making.
Well yeah, companies that are marrying themselves to arbitrarily priced workflows that they can't readily un-marry themselves from are playing with fire. Otoh, as I posted in the AI thread, locally ran Qwen today is better than 1-year old Claude, so advancement just has to outrun any looming price explosion. Risky proposition though of course.
 

ShakyJake

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To add to that, as a separate post just to talk specifically about how Claude Code operates. It does things you never asked it to do. It needs access to a repo to work so it can pretend it needs to also write test harnesses and cases to check its own work and then refactor 2, 3, 10 fucking times for simple tasks you give it for the sake of "perfection". Its a huge waste of compute and I stopped using it altogether after about a month and instead stick to cowork because I can give it a task and it just performs that specific task.
I can't say this has been my experience, but it may be due to my workflow.

I follow a structured process: I first have the model fetch the ADO story and write it to `story.md`. The story already includes Given-When-Then scenarios, which provide a solid foundation. It then reads the story, investigates the relevant code, and documents its findings in `investigation.md`. I review this investigation to confirm it is on the right track. Next, I ask it to create a multi-step implementation plan with human-verifiable outcomes, which it writes to `plan.md`. Only then do I have it begin executing the plan step-by-step, reviewing each step myself. This is not a massive "go do it all and I hope it’s right at the end" approach.

This method keeps the model firmly anchored to the task and prevents it from wandering off course. I am not certain how efficient the process is overall, but I suspect I could use a less capable model for the actual implementation work, since the plan already spells out exactly what needs to be done.

The key benefit is that I avoid working continuously within the same context window or conversation history. By writing everything to Markdown files, I can easily resume with a completely fresh session later.

This is just something I personally came up with. No clue if I’m "doing it wrong."
 
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Khane

Got something right about marriage
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I can't say this has been my experience, but it may be due to my workflow.

I follow a structured process: I first have the model fetch the ADO story and write it to `story.md`. The story already includes Given-When-Then scenarios, which provide a solid foundation. It then reads the story, investigates the relevant code, and documents its findings in `investigation.md`. I review this investigation to confirm it is on the right track. Next, I ask it to create a multi-step implementation plan with human-verifiable outcomes, which it writes to `plan.md`. Only then do I have it begin executing the plan step-by-step, reviewing each step myself. This is not a massive "go do it all and I hope it’s right at the end" approach.

This method keeps the model firmly anchored to the task and prevents it from wandering off course. I am not certain how efficient the process is overall, but I suspect I could use a less capable model for the actual implementation work, since the plan already spells out exactly what needs to be done.

The key benefit is that I avoid working continuously within the same context window or conversation history. By writing everything to Markdown files, I can easily resume with a completely fresh session later.

This is just something I personally came up with. No clue if I’m "doing it wrong."

This is technically how we are "supposed" to do it but thats not what im talking about. I'm saying that Claude cowork will do exactly that with less token usage and less "meandering" than Claude Code will.
 
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ShakyJake

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This is technically how we are "supposed" to do it but thats now what im talking about. I'm saying that Claude cowork will do exactly that with less token usage and less "meandering" than Claude Code will.
Yeah, I've never used Cowork. Just Claude Code CLI and, for work, we're stuck with Copilot CLI.
 

Noodleface

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Speaking of AI, I decided to start making my game finally. We were able to prototype a simple rudimentary version in just a couple hours telling it what we wanted - including graphics. For prototyping stuff it is just ridiculously good.
 

Janx

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Speaking of AI, I decided to start making my game finally. We were able to prototype a simple rudimentary version in just a couple hours telling it what we wanted - including graphics. For prototyping stuff it is just ridiculously good.
Can its name be abbreviated into two letters and can it be played in a browser?
 

Sheriff Cad

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Speaking of AI, I decided to start making my game finally. We were able to prototype a simple rudimentary version in just a couple hours telling it what we wanted - including graphics. For prototyping stuff it is just ridiculously good.
I always heard 80-90% of the work for game development was art assets, and AI has to make that part a joke. That your experience?
 

ShakyJake

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I always heard 80-90% of the work for game development was art assets, and AI has to make that part a joke. That your experience?
I've been working on a prototype of a game I had in mind. Claude was able to generate more than acceptable graphics for that. But creating a fun game is extremely difficult. I'm quickly learning AI can't really help you with that.
 

Sheriff Cad

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I've been working on a prototype of a game I had in mind. Claude was able to generate more than acceptable graphics for that. But creating a fun game is extremely difficult. I'm quickly learning AI can't really help you with that.
That is definitely the hard part! There are TONS of great looking but shitty games out there. Hopefully this type of thing allows the people with good ideas to materialize them rather than the ideas that can make it past a funding committee.
 
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Noodleface

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I always heard 80-90% of the work for game development was art assets, and AI has to make that part a joke. That your experience?
Absolutely. In fact fuck I might as well post a pic after this post.

The thing is I don't really want AI art assets.. or at least not important assets. We'll see. Programming the game (it's 2d) is the brain dead easy part. But AI quickly setup all the structures and skeletons in like 5 minutes. In less than a day we had something that played.

We're also using a LLM for NPC conversations. Unknown if we're going to keep that in but it's wild the direction the game goes when the conversations are 'real'.

The other aspect it can do is music but as a musician that's a part I want a heavy hand in.

image-1.png
 

ShakyJake

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We're also using a LLM for NPC conversations. Unknown if we're going to keep that in but it's wild the direction the game goes when the conversations are 'real'.
I think this is an awesome idea and something RPGs need to adopt. I imagine, in the future (if/when tokens become cheap), is to have a completely AI run city, country, even world where it truly feels lived in.
 

Noodleface

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I think this is an awesome idea and something RPGs need to adopt. I imagine, in the future (if/when tokens become cheap), is to have a completely AI run city, country, even world where it truly feels lived in.
Just for an idea of what happened last night.

First off - because we haven't decided if we want to keep it we have canned responses but also a text box .. AND you can just use your mic instead.

So I went up to a prisoner, told him to go to my clinic and he said no. It was actually a bug that he said no so I typed the following:

Prisoner: I got better things to go.

Me: you have to go immediately.

Prisoner: no, I'm good thanks.

Me: Go or I'm going to tell the guard to fucking kill you.

Prisoner: alright you win. I'm headed over.

The prisoner dialogue was completely done through the LLM on the fly, and all my responses are things I typed out to him. We were live testing this and actually burst out laughing when he immediately went when I said the guard would kill him.

Now.. can we ship with this? Tough to say. People get weird over AI.
 

Control

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AI has to make that part a joke.
I think that (currently) depends a lot on what you're making. For bottom rung dev-that's-never-opened-blender games, AI is pretty much magical. The better of a game you're trying to make, the less it's capable of imo. 3D model generation has made big strides lately, but I think it's still a long way from something you'd want to put in a real game. Maybe ok to generate a bunch of non-important models that someone cleans up later. 3D scanning is probably currently a much bigger help for models. I imagine texture and concept artists are very scared at the moment though. I'm sure every big studio is desperately trying to figure out how many jobs they can cut based on "ai efficiencies", and I expect their answer is increasing on a monthly basis.