IT/Software career thread: Invert binary trees for dollars.

Fucker

Log Wizard
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In reality what will happen is this. Within the next 5 years or so people will be abstracted to only working with the agent window or similar and never seeing code of anything. This will be how they interact with it and while they will succeed at many things the knowledge of precisely how data loads into something, for example, will be lost to the greybeards who had to do it prior to AI.
This is going to be a prevalent problem across many industries as AI starts growing some teeth. It will build itself tools that no one knows how they operate, and it will build itself tools that they don't understand on any level. An early example of this as an AI tool was used to design a IC, and engineers said the outputs were completely unexpected and "alien".

In the TV show, Raised by Wolves, I wondered what could possibly create the Necromancer.

Now I know.

 

ShakyJake

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In reality what will happen is this. Within the next 5 years or so people will be abstracted to only working with the agent window or similar and never seeing code of anything. This will be how they interact with it and while they will succeed at many things the knowledge of precisely how data loads into something, for example, will be lost to the greybeards who had to do it prior to AI.

Low level tasks are completely destroyed by AI and it creates the problem we have today. You do not get Senior engineers without hiring Junior engineers.

It will create a point of finality. If you get to a point where you cannot prompt your way out of a massive defect what do you do? AI is only as smart as your ability to tell it what to do. Especially where critical defects and bugs do not necessarily result in a programmatic error but the inability of the application to do what it is supposed to within the parameters required.

As a better example. At my previous job we had archaic data architecture from the 90s running critical aspects of the business. Over time this had been layered with more than 80 transformation steps built into MSSQL to meet growing business needs. This still worked, mostly, but its processing time was being dragged out by essentially O notation and complexity. You cannot turn this system off, it runs the business, and its scale is too large to replicate to build a corrected parallel solution. You have to fix it in place.

On top of that, none of the code running this is in one singular coherent repo or anything either. It's all old databases that predated source control.

How do you think AI could even diagnose that as it can't see all of it?
I mean, this sounds exactly like every other legacy system that already exists. We maintain an ancient ASP.NET WebForms app that started in the early .NET 2 days. Over the years people dumped in different third-party frameworks, flipped patterns every couple of years, and nobody ever cleaned the old stuff out. The result is spaghetti. A new developer ( junior or senior) looking at that mess for the first time is basically lost. Similar problem you described: jam packed repo, layers on layers, and we can't rewrite it because the business will balk at spending money fixing tech debt.

AI hitting a wall on a system it cannot fully see is not a new failure mode. Humans hit that wall every day on these things and we just live with it. The "you cannot prompt your way out of a massive defect" problem is just the same old "nobody on the team actually understands how this works anymore" problem with a different interface.
 

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Yes, the difference I see is that the way this is going the engineers in 10 years won't even be able to read code. Nor understand the basic elements of programming. Just "prompt made it work, prompt until it does what I want." But people are smart so what I see happening is not that an error is deduced to mean this issue must be in this location but that they will fit the AI into anything they need to diagnose then go from there.
 

TJT

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Well after 4 months of looking to replace the shitter I got to quit I found 3 candidates in the Chicago area. The first pick refused the offer, whatever. Second pick is pending and the third is the one I rejected but leadership approved. A Nigerian woman. At the very least she is very experienced in Fabric, which I have not bothered to learn.

But still, damn it all.
 

Nija

<Silver Donator>
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MIGHT not be totally bad. You'll be able to find out quickly. The fact that you rejected her already isn't good news.

One of the sharpest, hard working, and most humble guys I've ever worked with was from the DRC. (Congo) He was one of those kids we've read the sob stories about who walked 4 miles barefoot one way to school, crossing rope bridges over canyons. Speaks like 5 languages, soft spoken, yet absolute unit of a man.Like 6'6 330. He went from DRC to Senegal to start his career and from there Europe, eventually the US. He built services a decade ago (he left like ~4 years ago) that still run at the core of our platform. Lowest error rates, no downtime events attributed to any project he ran. We still have funny bastardized French/Creole named service accounts and backend stuff in use today based on what he set up.
 
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ShakyJake

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I remember back in my night community college classes there was a group of students from the DRC. They were well dressed and groomed. Good students. Quite the opposite from the local African Americans with their pants halfway down their ass.
 
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Noodleface

A Mod Real Quick
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I remember back in my night community college classes there was a group of students from the DRC. They were well dressed and groomed. Good students. Quite the opposite from the local African Americans with their pants halfway down their ass.
It's funny when you escape a genocidal wartorn nation how that changes things
 
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Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
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I asked our senior director how were ever going to hire juniors again. Even if they come on board they don't understand the tech stack, it's not something you just learn in college. It just feels like our generation is going to be the last generation of real engineers.
People said this kind of thing at the onset of the cell phone google era. I scoffed at the time a bit, but I think those people may have been correct and this is just the next step into the abyss.
 

ShakyJake

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Got a cold email today about a full-time contract grading coding-agent work for a frontier lab. Remote US, $150/hour, 40 hours a wee for 6 months.

The work is reading agent transcripts and pull requests all day, which patch is actually better, which tests are game-able, what the diff really does, then writing that down so it survives a second reviewer.

Pay annualizes to about $312k if you really work 40 hours every week. The contract itself is six months, so closer to $156k cash, no equity, no lab benefits.

I am not taking it. I am a poor line-by-line reviewer. My eyes skip around, and this job is that skill for eight hours. Fine job for someone who likes to review and read code. Not for me I don't think.
 
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M Power

Potato del Grande
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I remember back in my night community college classes there was a group of students from the DRC. They were well dressed and groomed. Good students. Quite the opposite from the local African Americans with their pants halfway down their ass.
One of the best engineers I've ever known was a guy from Nigeria.