Learning a second language for career purposes.

I agree with him. Unless you're in a job where foreign languages are a vital part (such as working directly with immigrants), it probably won't make much of a difference if you're bilingual. In such jobs, however, being bilingual is awesome. I know for a fact that my ability to speak a foreign language was a huge selling point for me when I interviewed for my current job, and it played a role in beating out some other, monolingual candidates.

If you really want to learn a foreign language, I'd pick one that genuinely interests you and that you'd enjoy learning. The problem with trying to learn a language for purely professional reasons is that you'll likely lose motivation and never end up reaching a level where you can actually use it.

Celestein_sl said:

Mandarin, not even a fucking choice.

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This. I can speak it (not read) and it is a great boon.

I'd look at is as a leg up on competition for the same job rather than opening up a ton of new door ways. While a second language can do that, especially one you're fluent in and one that is fairly rare for Americans to know, I think the applications are bit more limited. Mandarin would be a good choice but you need to make sure your other qualifications would fit the doors that might open for you.

Take a math class instead.

I speak several languages, and one of the greatest benefits is understanding how your "native" (or the language in which you work) functions. It allows you to use language better.

We speak two languages at home; my kids are all bilingual. I think that is nothing but positive. They can take math classes in school any time, but growing their understanding of language happens best as a child. It's not hippy bullshit.

TJT_sl said:

I learned Arabic in the Army and became quite proficient at it after over 2 years in Iraq. Since I moved to Florida and then to Texas my Spanish is quite good now as well. Currently learning Russian for fun since learning languages has become... incredibly easy now.

But I also work with a lot of Slavic companies/people lately so it is a boon to me specifically and not overly complicated as a language (fuck Arabic grammar, to this day I can read/speak it but the nuance of its grammar is fucking bonkers). I've knack for memorizing many new words though. I honestly don't know what would be the most beneficial and I don't want to say just learn Mandarin, even though it is probably guaranteed to be helpful.

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Would love to get your methods for studying Russian. I'm a language nerd and trying to teach myself French and Russian. But Russian is painful.

Languages are actually quite useful in my industry. I work in a luxury hotel, and tons of our guests speak very minimal English if any. We just had 300 people from a Middle Eastern Embassy there for 2 weeks, and barely a single one could speak any English. Unfortunately, we only had one employee who speaks Arabic. Language proficiency is required if I want to try and go to a non-US hotel. For example, if I want to go to Monte Carlo to work, I need English, French, and Italian to be hired.

Unfortunately, as much as I love languages, I never seem to get to a useful stage of them.

Fiyero_sl said:

Would love to get your methods for studying Russian. I'm a language nerd and trying to teach myself French and Russian. But Russian is painful.

Languages are actually quite useful in my industry. I work in a luxury hotel, and tons of our guests speak very minimal English if any. We just had 300 people from a Middle Eastern Embassy there for 2 weeks, and barely a single one could speak any English. Unfortunately, we only had one employee who speaks Arabic. Language proficiency is required if I want to try and go to a non-US hotel. For example, if I want to go to Monte Carlo to work, I need English, French, and Italian to be hired.

Unfortunately, as much as I love languages, I never seem to get to a useful stage of them.

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I self-taught Russian to a basic conversational level, and then fine-tuned it to an advanced level in college and living overseas. What is your exact problem that makes Russian painful?

My general rule for learning ANY language is to actively use it in meaningful interactions. I think the negotiation for meaning when you're having a real conversation is what truly makes the language stick in your mind, whether it be a particular grammar rule, pronunciation of a certain sound, vocabulary word, or whatever. Just start speaking using whatever little you have, and it'll build from there. Obviously books and standard studying can supplement this.

McCheese_sl said:

I self-taught Russian to a basic conversational level, and then fine-tuned it to an advanced level in college and living overseas. What is your exact problem that makes Russian painful?

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The grammar for one. Just hard to remember some of the case endings, especially using Genitive plural. I haven't gotten too far into it, but Verbs of motion and Aspect I know are a pain for most people. Building vocabulary is tough since Russian words are hard to stick into memory. And some degree of pronunciation, especially the bl vowel (Tbl, Bbl, etc.) I'm currently using Assimil Russian and New Penguin Russian Course book.

My general rule for learning ANY language is to actively use it in meaningful interactions. I think the negotiation for meaning when you're having a real conversation is what truly makes the language stick in your mind, whether it be a particular grammar rule, pronunciation of a certain sound, vocabulary word, or whatever. Just start speaking using whatever little you have, and it'll build from there. Obviously books and standard studying can supplement this.

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How long did it take you to reach conversational or read a newspaper in Russian?

Cantonese over Mandarin. By far. At least in a health related field, there are way more Cantonese speaking patients than Mandarin. If I could easily learn languages, it would be:

Spanish -> Cantonese -> Russian -> French

But, it also depends on what field you're working in and where you're living.

Kuriin_sl said:

Cantonese over Mandarin. By far. At least in a health related field, there are way more Cantonese speaking patients than Mandarin. If I could easily learn languages, it would be:

Spanish -> Cantonese -> Russian -> French

But, it also depends on what field you're working in and where you're living.

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Cantonese over Mandarin? No way dude. Only people from Hong Kong and some parts of southern China speaks Cantonese. I speak it fluently and I hardly use it at all apart from speaking with the family. I feel it's a dying language as more people from mainland China are flooding into Hong Kong.

I self thought myself Mandarin and use it much more nowadays than Cantonese. There are more loaded Chinese investors and tourisrs going abroad to spend all that umm 'questionable' money they no doubt legitimately earned back at home.

Fiyero_sl said:

The grammar for one. Just hard to remember some of the case endings, especially using Genitive plural. I haven't gotten too far into it, but Verbs of motion and Aspect I know are a pain for most people. Building vocabulary is tough since Russian words are hard to stick into memory. And some degree of pronunciation, especially the bl vowel (Tbl, Bbl, etc.) I'm currently using Assimil Russian and New Penguin Russian Course book.

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Russian grammar is hard, for sure. However, it sounds like you're letting it overwhelm you. Just take it one case at a time and use whatever you know to start communicating. Chances are if you make a mistake with the cases you'll still be understood pretty easily. Likewise for verbs of motion and aspect. Even after 10+ years I still sometimes mess up in those areas, but it's no big deal and it's never caused any big comprehension problems.

You may not be like this, but I feel like a lot people (and I'm a language teacher, so I see this in my students, too) feel like they have to "gear up" on grammar and vocabulary before speaking a language, to use some MMO terminology. Speaking a language isn't a raid; you don't need to reach a certain language item level to step into the conversation raid zone and down the first boss. It's a gradual process of slow, incremental improvements. Start with the very basics of grammar (present tense, verb conjugation) and work from there.

How long did it take you to reach conversational or read a newspaper in Russian?

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It's been a long time, so I can't say for sure. I'd say after 3 or 4 months of starting studying I was chatting (text, not video) online (via Agent, if you know it) with Russians. Doing that for a few months and making heavy use ofhttp://www.multitran.rushowedmassiveimprovement in my abilities and helped me get to the point that I could converse in-person.

Honestly most of you mother fuckers need to work on your English before you worry about learning other languages. Read a book, do toastmasters, take a speech class, learn to express yourselves without saying "you know" or "uhh" or any other repetitive bullshit while speaking. I'm not calling anybody out in particular because I obviously haven't heard you speak. But in general people don't speak their native languages all that well, and English is far and away the best one to know. So concentrate on knowing English 100%, get your phrasing perfect, and work on your writing skills and your verbal presentation.

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I agree with this. The nice thing is that good speaking skills will, for the most part, transfer over to your foreign language so you'll get extra benefit out of it.

The best class I took in college was a speaking class. It had us giving a variety of speeches in front of the class--including a roast of a classmate--and recording them to analyze and fix things like "uhhh" and "you know." It really changed my life.

Neki_sl said:

Cantonese over Mandarin? No way dude. Only people from Hong Kong and some parts of southern China speaks Cantonese. I speak it fluently and I hardly use it at all apart from speaking with the family. I feel it's a dying language as more people from mainland China are flooding into Hong Kong.

I self thought myself Mandarin and use it much more nowadays than Cantonese. There are more loaded Chinese investors and tourisrs going abroad to spend all that umm 'questionable' money they no doubt legitimately earned back at home.

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It's probably because the (most) Mandarin speakers also speak English, that I don't hear it. But, the Cantonese speakers donotspeak English, or speak it very well, requiring the use of an interpreter. Regardless, though, I would still learn any form of Chinese since I live in the Bay area.


edit: +most

McCheese_sl said:

Russian grammar is hard, for sure. However, it sounds like you're letting it overwhelm you. Just take it one case at a time and use whatever you know to start communicating. Chances are if you make a mistake with the cases you'll still be understood pretty easily. Likewise for verbs of motion and aspect. Even after 10+ years I still sometimes mess up in those areas, but it's no big deal and it's never caused any big comprehension problems.

You may not be like this, but I feel like a lot people (and I'm a language teacher, so I see this in my students, too) feel like they have to "gear up" on grammar and vocabulary before speaking a language, to use some MMO terminology. Speaking a language isn't a raid; you don't need to reach a certain language item level to step into the conversation raid zone and down the first boss. It's a gradual process of slow, incremental improvements. Start with the very basics of grammar (present tense, verb conjugation) and work from there.



It's been a long time, so I can't say for sure. I'd say after 3 or 4 months of starting studying I was chatting (text, not video) online (via Agent, if you know it) with Russians. Doing that for a few months and making heavy use ofhttp://www.multitran.rushowedmassiveimprovement in my abilities and helped me get to the point that I could converse in-person.

.

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Thanks. I'm not familiar with Agent. Is it a Russian chat program? Did you use Spaced Repetition (like Anki) for retaining vocabulary, or just picked it up naturally the more you used it and looked up words?

Part of me eventually might want to learn an East Asian language to open up that side of the world. Would be a tough call between Mandarin and Japanese though.

Fiyero_sl said:

Thanks. I'm not familiar with Agent. Is it a Russian chat program? Did you use Spaced Repetition (like Anki) for retaining vocabulary, or just picked it up naturally the more you used it and looked up words?

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Yeah, Agent is a Russian chat program. You can download it at Mail.ru. I haven't really used it in a few years, but it used to be great for searching for random people in CIS countries to chat with, and they loved talking to English-speakers. I actually ended up meeting a few of the people I chatted with on there in-person when I went overseas.

As for spaced repetition, I hate it. I can't remember anything unless I have some sort of meaningful context surrounding it, which is why I prefer to just use the language.