Malazan Book Of The Fallen
- Thread starter Intrinsic
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No you're all good. I knew when reading Erikson and deciding to skip Esselmont that I would run into spoilers. No big deal.
I did that though because it was my understanding that the Esselmont stuff was significantly lower quality, but the reviews of the last couple of his have been pretty good. Is that how you guys feel too? I know I start Night of Knives and ended up switching to something else pretty quickly.
I did that though because it was my understanding that the Esselmont stuff was significantly lower quality, but the reviews of the last couple of his have been pretty good. Is that how you guys feel too? I know I start Night of Knives and ended up switching to something else pretty quickly.
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Night of Knives was bad. Quality picked up after that though. I wasn't too happy with Blood and Bone because how it contradicts the perceived narrative in the main series.
As for the last half of Blood and Bone...not really? There's a whole lot of pointless characters who really never play any role in the story other than to just exist. Which is fine, but some of them are noteworthy characters. Crimson Guard group could have easily just been 1-2 people.
Honestly, Esslemont and Erikson are at their best when the story centers around Malazan marines.
As for the last half of Blood and Bone...not really? There's a whole lot of pointless characters who really never play any role in the story other than to just exist. Which is fine, but some of them are noteworthy characters. Crimson Guard group could have easily just been 1-2 people.
Honestly, Esslemont and Erikson are at their best when the story centers around Malazan marines.
Lusiphur
Peasant
- 595
- 47
Blood and Bone isn't great but I did enjoy The Crimson Guard resolution.
Seriously though, we going to have to go over the Snake again? I get most people didn't like how it was portrayed but it was a necessary plot piece not only for the D'rek summoning but to put a reason to the Bonehunters for being there in the first place. It gives the story its moral centre.
Seriously though, we going to have to go over the Snake again? I get most people didn't like how it was portrayed but it was a necessary plot piece not only for the D'rek summoning but to put a reason to the Bonehunters for being there in the first place. It gives the story its moral centre.
Cause the lesbian adjunct knows all, duh. We went over this and it was what gave the story it's immoral centre......
The snake was "necessary" because he wrote it in as necessary, no other reason.
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Yeah, that's precisely what I didn't like. Tavore knowing what she did was the linchpin for way too many plot devices. And of course, Erikson pissed away the opportunity to explain that way. He could have written it that she was actually in contact with her brother all along(him not mentioning to Tavore that she killed her sister). The Master of the Deck knowing all this stuff makes sense. But nope, they finally meet up in writing and she breaks down about not being able to save their sister. So, obviously they weren't talking.
Lusiphur
Peasant
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- 47
Because their leader (who had earned their trust) asked them to go and deal with the Forkrul Assail. Seeing the suffering of The Snake gave the Bonehunters a real face to the evil they were fighting. Hence the moral center.
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And the Bonehunters knew the Forkrul Assail had to be dealt with how?
See, you're just dancing around the real issue here. Tavore was this magic box where plot holes got lost and explained away. No explanation as to why a mere mortal knew about this grave danger(Forkruul with a god's heart).
See, you're just dancing around the real issue here. Tavore was this magic box where plot holes got lost and explained away. No explanation as to why a mere mortal knew about this grave danger(Forkruul with a god's heart).
DiddleySquat
Bronze Knight of the Realm
- 458
- 17
I always figured T'amber (being Eres'al in disguise) set Tavore on her path with the Bonehunters. Eres'al being an elder goddess she knew how it should all converge in the end, so she guided her towards her destiny. They spent a lot of time together in Tavore's tent, that can't all have been to eat each other out, so I figure T'amber gave her a lot of info.
I'm only starting with TtH now though, so I could be missing something, since I'm just aware of a few spoilers but far from all.
I'm only starting with TtH now though, so I could be missing something, since I'm just aware of a few spoilers but far from all.
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T'amber was possessed by Eres'al, not the same as being Eres'al. Especially since T'amber was killed in their visit to Malaz. Quite a lot to go on, taking an army halfway around the world on some monkey godess' word.
I severely doubt the Eres'al could see how it converged. The whole plan is for nothing if the Errant didn't turn into a little bitch and release the rusty dragon just to spite everyone else. Forget Tavore and Eres'al, how did ANYONE know he was going to do that? And if they did know, why the fuck didn't they stop them? Anti-magic dragon that almost awakened Tiam is a bigger threat than forkruul with crippled god's heart.
DiddleySquat
Bronze Knight of the Realm
- 458
- 17
Well Eres'al must have had some reason to take over T'amber and then befriend Tavore. Only reason for Eres'al to do that I can think of, is to direct Tavore. And to be able to do that, she must have spilled some serious info to Tavore, else Tavore would never have done what she did. What T'amber told her we'll never know word by word, so we have to deduce it from what Tavore did after T'amber was killed/Eres'al left her presence. Hence the trip to Lether, and everything after I haven't even read yet.
Hm, counterpoint to my own argument: Grub told Lostara Yil to never tell Tavore that T'amber was Eres'al. Ok, /throw hands in the air, I dunno either then.
Hm, counterpoint to my own argument: Grub told Lostara Yil to never tell Tavore that T'amber was Eres'al. Ok, /throw hands in the air, I dunno either then.
Cover blurb for Assail released. It is coming out in November of this year in the UK. Can't wait!
Nebuchadnezzar
Golden Squire
- 458
- 50
Yup. Esslemont gives you steady 8.0-9.0, where Erikson wanders all over the scale. Really had to force myself to finish Forge of Darkness.
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Eh, Blood and Bone was a setback for Esslemont. Pointless subplots and whole groups of characters that were nearly useless. Also, Blood and Bone contradicted the Crippled God's main plot.
However, it looks like Assail will be set AFTER the Crippled God since Fisher was in OST. No idea who the Tiste Andii and Whiteblade are.
However, it looks like Assail will be set AFTER the Crippled God since Fisher was in OST. No idea who the Tiste Andii and Whiteblade are.
I found this on the intertubes, seems to be a synopsis for Assail:
Edit: damn someone posted like 3 posted above me. Hah.
The final chapter in the awesome, epic story of the Malazan Empire.
Tens of thousands of years of ice is melting, and the land of Assail, long a byword for menace and inaccessibility, is at last yielding its secrets. Tales of gold discovered in the region's north circulate in every waterfront dive and sailor's tavern and now countless adventurers and fortune-seekers have set sail in search of riches. All these adventurers have to guide them are legends and garbled tales of the dangers that lie in wait -- hostile coasts, fields of ice, impassable barriers and strange, terrifying creatures. But all accounts concur that the people of the north meet all trespassers with the sword. And beyond are rumoured to lurk Elder monsters out of history's very beginnings. Into this turmoil ventures the mercenary company, the Crimson Guard. Not drawn by contract, but by the promise of answers: answers to mysteries that Shimmer, second in command, wonders should even be sought. Arriving also, part of an uneasy alliance of Malazan fortune-hunters and Letherii soldiery, comes the bard Fisher kel Tath. And with him is a Tiste Andii who was found washed ashore and who cannot remember his past life, yet who commands far more power than he really should. Also venturing north is said to be a mighty champion, a man who once fought for the Malazans, the bearer of a sword that slays gods: Whiteblade.
And lastly, far to the south, a woman guards the shore awaiting both her allies and her enemies. Silverfox, newly incarnated Summoner of the undying army of the T'lan Imass, will do anything to stop the renewal of an ages-old crusade that could lay waste to the entire continent and beyond. Casting light on mysteries spanning the Malazan empire, and offering a glimpse of the storied and epic history that shaped it, Assail is the final chapter in the epic story of the Empire of Malaz.
Tens of thousands of years of ice is melting, and the land of Assail, long a byword for menace and inaccessibility, is at last yielding its secrets. Tales of gold discovered in the region's north circulate in every waterfront dive and sailor's tavern and now countless adventurers and fortune-seekers have set sail in search of riches. All these adventurers have to guide them are legends and garbled tales of the dangers that lie in wait -- hostile coasts, fields of ice, impassable barriers and strange, terrifying creatures. But all accounts concur that the people of the north meet all trespassers with the sword. And beyond are rumoured to lurk Elder monsters out of history's very beginnings. Into this turmoil ventures the mercenary company, the Crimson Guard. Not drawn by contract, but by the promise of answers: answers to mysteries that Shimmer, second in command, wonders should even be sought. Arriving also, part of an uneasy alliance of Malazan fortune-hunters and Letherii soldiery, comes the bard Fisher kel Tath. And with him is a Tiste Andii who was found washed ashore and who cannot remember his past life, yet who commands far more power than he really should. Also venturing north is said to be a mighty champion, a man who once fought for the Malazans, the bearer of a sword that slays gods: Whiteblade.
And lastly, far to the south, a woman guards the shore awaiting both her allies and her enemies. Silverfox, newly incarnated Summoner of the undying army of the T'lan Imass, will do anything to stop the renewal of an ages-old crusade that could lay waste to the entire continent and beyond. Casting light on mysteries spanning the Malazan empire, and offering a glimpse of the storied and epic history that shaped it, Assail is the final chapter in the epic story of the Empire of Malaz.
Edit: damn someone posted like 3 posted above me. Hah.
Late to the party, but I finished Blood and Bone a few months ago. Overall I enjoyed it, but mostly for the insight into Kallor, the crippled god, and the crimson guard. I guess I feel the same way about Night of Knives, where the actual writing and structure was pretty weak, but because it was filled to the brim with old guard, I ate it up. I still like to go back and read the sections with Dassem and when Temper meets Dancer in Mock's. I guess the same can be said of most of ICE book's.
But back to Blood and Bone, there are a couple things that I'm not quite clear on.
But back to Blood and Bone, there are a couple things that I'm not quite clear on.
What's the deal with the Priestess of Light or whatever her name is? Did she have a point? Was she the reason the Thaums could try to summon another stranger or just someone who was trying to stop it? From what I remember, its the renegade thaum that kills the summoners and the priestess's cyborg brother. What did Osserc actually do? Other than get all salty at Gothos then fly down to Jacuruku to get blown up and returned to Kurald Thryllan? I know the summoning was Kurald Thryllan aspected, but it wasn't clear to me what actually happened.
Anyways. Kallor being around was fun and all, but he seemed to sit on the bench as well. I know his return is what prompted the Thaums to try for another summon, but his whole plot line seemed secondary to me, when it really shouldn't have been.
Directed at Deathwing and others regarding this plot contradicting the main series'. I don't see it that way. I think the idea that the current stranger is Jade giants filled with worshippers (or people pulled into them somehow ala Heboric in House of Chains) trying to get to the crippled god is as correct as we are going to get. The Thaums are merely making use of their proximity to nuke Kallor again.
I also think it's possible that the Jade giants are gods of some sort themselves as well. Again back in House of Chains when Heboric gets pulled into one he has a vision of when the crippled god is pulled from the procession through a gate. Maybe the cg was the leader and the rest followers, but it doesn't seem that way to me. At least that's my interpretation of it. I have never been very happy with the whole Jade giant/crippled god idea from the beginning though. Especially since every evil in the entire world can just be explained as "Oh its a piece of the Crippled God. Whoopdeedoo" Stonewielder was disappointing to me for this reason.
Again back to B&B. The last thing I have to say about it is I think Skinner's death could have been handled in a way more hilarious manner. Having his armor stripped followed by the undead Seguleh 2nd (whatever happened to him anyways) or Bars barreling out the jungle yelling "SKIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNEERRRRRRRR!" and chopping him to pieces would have been way better.
And as always, the Malazans, especially Murk/Sour, were fantastic. Who was the Fist they murdered in Aren?
Anyways. Kallor being around was fun and all, but he seemed to sit on the bench as well. I know his return is what prompted the Thaums to try for another summon, but his whole plot line seemed secondary to me, when it really shouldn't have been.
Directed at Deathwing and others regarding this plot contradicting the main series'. I don't see it that way. I think the idea that the current stranger is Jade giants filled with worshippers (or people pulled into them somehow ala Heboric in House of Chains) trying to get to the crippled god is as correct as we are going to get. The Thaums are merely making use of their proximity to nuke Kallor again.
I also think it's possible that the Jade giants are gods of some sort themselves as well. Again back in House of Chains when Heboric gets pulled into one he has a vision of when the crippled god is pulled from the procession through a gate. Maybe the cg was the leader and the rest followers, but it doesn't seem that way to me. At least that's my interpretation of it. I have never been very happy with the whole Jade giant/crippled god idea from the beginning though. Especially since every evil in the entire world can just be explained as "Oh its a piece of the Crippled God. Whoopdeedoo" Stonewielder was disappointing to me for this reason.
Again back to B&B. The last thing I have to say about it is I think Skinner's death could have been handled in a way more hilarious manner. Having his armor stripped followed by the undead Seguleh 2nd (whatever happened to him anyways) or Bars barreling out the jungle yelling "SKIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNEERRRRRRRR!" and chopping him to pieces would have been way better.
And as always, the Malazans, especially Murk/Sour, were fantastic. Who was the Fist they murdered in Aren?
Whiteblade is Kyle for sure. No idea on the Tiste Andii. Hopefully not some revived Rake nonsense