Team Commie doesn't actually agree on this point. I've been desperately trying to get to some kind of real debate about what is and isn't communism, but all that has been is who has and hasn't called themselves communists, which is pretty fucking worthless given that, you know, people can say whatever stupid bullshit they want to.
Mikhail and Hodj's Political Thread
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Loser Araysar
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Ok, so we have the financial industry but that's largely because you dont even believe in the concept of money is needed in a communist society. Sure, some trading is wasteful, but regional and local banking isn't in my opinion.
What else?
TheBeagle
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hodj
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So the only sane societies are ones that can't exist. Why do you keep making such stupid arguments bro?
There are no dangers in positivism and besides that, this wouldn't be positivism. There's plenty of potential confounding factors you could have run to as a scapegoat for your failure, but trying to cry that trusting our senses and observations isn't reliable because lol philosophy is lolworthy in the modern world.
We have run countless experiments, Dumar, with all varities of social theories about how to make your system work.
It all failed.
I would be more willing to try again, but each try costs LIVES.
That's really the issue here.
You guys want to play with human lives until you get the formula just right. Just perfect. And it doesn't matter to how many times it fails, those weren't "Real communism" anyway. So they don't count.
Its bad logic, and its not science.
Loser Araysar
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Lets say 100,000,000 want boats. This Perfect Country is going to make 100,000,000 forty-footers?
Loser Araysar
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Fair enough, I can see that. So we have financial industry and advertising. What else?
hodj
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I am an incredibly attractive fit black man, yes.You got the ball rolling, but then you tagged him in to do the heavy lifting.
Loser Araysar
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100,000,000 forty-foot boats. Is Communist Utopia going to make them or not?
hodj
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Advertising is wasteful.
Except for all those advertisers families who were able to feed their families, send their kids to private schools at a cost to get them a better education, and all the people they bought homes, and cars, and boats and toilets and tooth brushes and corn and super nintendos from didn't see it as wasteful at all.
But they don't count because they're just rich oppressors anyway, right?
Plus they're in advertising, so they're probably Jewish, so really, they can do with a lot less and still be fine.
They can always be lawyers anyway. Right?
Except for all those advertisers families who were able to feed their families, send their kids to private schools at a cost to get them a better education, and all the people they bought homes, and cars, and boats and toilets and tooth brushes and corn and super nintendos from didn't see it as wasteful at all.
But they don't count because they're just rich oppressors anyway, right?
Plus they're in advertising, so they're probably Jewish, so really, they can do with a lot less and still be fine.
They can always be lawyers anyway. Right?
hodj
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Depends. How long are you willing to wait in a queue to get one?
1 week?
Ten weeks?
1 year?
10 years?
Well comrade, just fill out these forms in quadruplicate and we'll get right on that sometime between now and the Apocalypse. Luckily Comrade Lumie predicted that to arrive any decade now.
Uh. The insurance industry? Really though...there's a million little instances of wasted effort that can go out. You don't really need to have gardners and shit like that either. There's a huge category of human labor the need of which is entirely predicated on the relative opulence of a tiny minority.
TheBeagle
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I do agree with bakunin that just cause someone called themselves commie doesn't necassarily make them commies when applying the definition of the word rather than the widely held perception of the word. See the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
I also agree with Mr T. that everyone wants a big boat.
I also agree with Mr T. that everyone wants a big boat.
I doubt Perfect Communist America is gonna make one hundred million forty foot boats. Is this the part where you ask me how we decide who gets the boats that do get made? Can we talk about markets now or do you want to keep playing this game?
hodj
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The issue is that they want to innoculate their dogma from all criticism by claiming that every person who was considered communist by any just regular historical standard isn't really communist. In fact, they're really capitalists.
You're a smart enough guy to recognize baloney intellectual dishonesty when you see it.
Just apply it in a different direction. Just because Hitler said he was a Fascist or a National Socialist doesn't really mean he was. You know.
Its a bad argument. They want to apply this whole hog to people like Mao, Lenin, Pol Pot. People who didn't just "Say" they were communist. They were prolific authors. Prolific leaders. Faces of communism for decades and more.
Like this isn't a question of whether Catherine Rottencunt at the OWS meet is really communist or not even though she claims to be, this is attempting to rewrite historical reality based on their incredibly subjective, and incredibly finely defined, hair splitting definitions which are being used as basically an antibiotic injection to retroactively insulate their ideology from criticism.
Its intellectually dishonest.
Loser Araysar
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In 1980s you had to wait 5 years for a car, which was basically a rebadged Fiat from the early 1970s and it cost about 2 years of good salary
In America you could be a snot nosed 19 year old in the 1980s and go buy a car from the classifieds after a few weeks of summer work.
The point being is your philosophy cant satisfy every need and want. But Capitalism can. What Communism ends up doing is instead of satisfying your needs and wants, it starts limiting them because its the only way that a system which promises all manner of unlimited goods and services can co-exist.
How do restaurants work in Perfect Communism Land?
hodj
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To add to above, Mao didn't just SAY he was communist.
Mother fucker ran a Communist branded revolution, in the most populated country on the planet. Then he set up a Communist party, and ran that fucker for several decades. He died in like 68...72 something like that. He didn't just run that fucker. He ran it through the Great Leap Forward AND the Cultural Revolution. Both of those movements were absolutely steeped in Communist ideology and theory. He was one of the most prolific authors in Communist history. I mean if this doesn't meet the criteria for being a Communist, literally nothing on planet Earth alive or ever will. You cannot insulate your ideology from criticism whole hog by just declaring it impossible to verify in this life. I mean you can, but we call that a fucking religion. Not a science.
It takes real, significant intellectual dishonesty to look at all that history and pretend its circular or incorrect logic to call Mao a Marxist.
Mother fucker ran a Communist branded revolution, in the most populated country on the planet. Then he set up a Communist party, and ran that fucker for several decades. He died in like 68...72 something like that. He didn't just run that fucker. He ran it through the Great Leap Forward AND the Cultural Revolution. Both of those movements were absolutely steeped in Communist ideology and theory. He was one of the most prolific authors in Communist history. I mean if this doesn't meet the criteria for being a Communist, literally nothing on planet Earth alive or ever will. You cannot insulate your ideology from criticism whole hog by just declaring it impossible to verify in this life. I mean you can, but we call that a fucking religion. Not a science.
It takes real, significant intellectual dishonesty to look at all that history and pretend its circular or incorrect logic to call Mao a Marxist.
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