My definition is in no way subjective or 'dishonest' whatsoever. I'm not expressing an opinion. You can reject the definition, but it is a definition. I'll answer more tomorrow: typing on a phone sucks
Mikhail and Hodj's Political Thread
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Loser Araysar
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TheBeagle
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No I agree that communism has been legitimately tried and it legitimately failed, Mao/Pol Pot/USSR, etc. I think the argument is that while its true that it has never existed in the way described by Marx, et al. at the level of the state, the REASON it has never existed at the level of the state is simply human nature which can't and won't ever be overcome as long as we remain Homo sapiens.
Maybe when humanity finally evolves into a new species then those utopian ideals can exist in the real world, but as long as you have a world full of merlins, its just not possible.
Heh. I take it since I have no context for that that this is hodj being an idiot. You're wasting time trying to present a rational argument bro. He trollin'.
hodj
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It is absolutely subjective in every way. You don't get to just wave away almost every major communist figure in history as "not really communist, in fact actually capitalist" and claim you're not being subjective and arbitrary.
Its incredibly subjective. You picked the lines from Marx you accept as the valid criterion for a communist out of all Marx's writings, and if someone doesn't follow those to the letter, not a communist. But that's not subjective.
Bullshit, its as subjective and dishonest as Christians screaming God hates Fags because leviticus and romans while ignoring mandates to beat their slaves and take rape their wives.
Its selective fucking bias.
You're just running away and trying to bait me into even more trolling while you do it. You and I both know perfectly well why you won't answer that question.
Loser Araysar
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I want a free and open dialogue between all of us. The Rickshaw isnt a place where we silence people.
TheBeagle
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Loser Araysar
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Or even a world of people like me. You think I want to make dildoes for 8 hours? Or sit in a nice office at an ad agency, overlooking downtown Chicago, drinking beers after 2 pm every day, even if Bakunin thinks my job is totally worthless and unnecessary?
hodj
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My issue here is that internet communists make this argument all the time. That basically they are the bearers of the golden dictionary which defines Marxism, and only they are capable of bringing that message to the poor ignorant sheep, and that any interpretation that is at odds with them is wrong because the interpreter just "didn't really get Marx". They want to hold the keys to the stable and determine what counts as socialism and what doesn't and what counts as success and failure and what doesn't, and frankly, the whole issue is just "2deep4u" anytime someone disagrees.
It is as intellectually dishonest and disgusting to claim that Stalin, Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot and Il Sung weren't communists as it is to claim that the Holocaust didn't happen, or Hitler had nothing to do with it, or Fascism wasn't to blame or racism wasn't really to blame. Real racists, you know, they just want to live with their own races, they aren't out to hurt anyone. So real racists wouldn't have committed the holocaust, you know?
That's the argument they're making here.
Its just blatantly intellectually bankrupt.
Communism in the future won't even be recognized as communism, if it ever happens. It'll be technocracy, rule by technocrats and machines.
lol
uh huh
What you want is to trick me into another day of being trololololed by hodj because you're still mad about all that shit with your weirdo social conservatism about gays and other sorts of public nudity.
If only I could silence that idiot. No, what I'm doing is just not listening to an obvious troll. I'm sure the PMs between you two are quite funny but I'm not playing your reindeer games anymore. Sorry, bro. I'll talk to you...for now. You know, if you've got the balls.
Loser Araysar
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I think the last time I sent Hodj a PM was like 2-3 weeks ago. I dont know why you think we are working in concert.
Because of the obvious way your troll attempts dovetail.
Answer my question, coward.
Loser Araysar
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TheBeagle
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Ya, but the point I think Marxists would make would be that if those people making the dildos weren't working for the man, but were instead working for themselves because the factory was owned by the workers running it, that would be their motivation for boxing up dildos eight hours a day.
But then the inevitable counter-argument to that is what difference does it make being owners of the dildo factory unless there was some sort of capital involved so they could turn those dildos into a forty foot boat.
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