Mikhail and Hodj's Political Thread

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hodj

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Araysar_sl said:
No, I've spent time in Indianapolis, Cleveland and Toledo. Those are Midwestern states.

kentucky is not like that. There is definitely a more trailer-y and inbred-y vibe from ole' KY.
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You yourself said that you were in deep southern Kentucky. That's not a representative picture of the state. Its like going to New York but only going to Attica and then saying "Well I don't see what all the fuss is about New York, why its just full of small college towns."

Here's a good summation of my argument for why we are not part of the South:

Kentucky is not part of the South because we had large numbers of German and Irish immigrants, weak institutions of slavery, most of Kentucky does not have a southern drawl or dialect unless you go all the way down to what I called earlier Northern Tennessee. Most of our economic ties are with the North. Many of our citizens moved here from Pennsylvania when Kentucky was considered a "frontier" region back in the earliest days of the nation. We sided with the North, the vast majority of our citizens fought for the North, Lincoln considered us absolutely vital to the North's victory during the war. Finally we were one of the first states to push back against lynch mobs, we were the first state to ban them outright.

We are like Missouri. Mid West. Not South.
 
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TheBeagle_sl said:
Since Oklahoma wasn't even a state during the Civil War does that mean they can't be part of the South either?
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Didn't fight for the South? Weren't part of the South. I would definitely classify them as Mid West as well.
 
TheBeagle

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LOL. They wouldn't. I should know since i was born there and lived there for the first 20 years of my life. Okies most definitely consider themselves Southern. Get out of your liberal bubble bro!
 
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Basically, the term South has merged with the term "Bible Belt" and so if you fall into the Bible Belt, people consider you part of the South.

That's the semantics game here. And its really unfair to characterize states who literally shed blood to fight for the North as the South because they happen to be more religious than Northern States.

Especially since the taint of calling someone part of the South comes with accusations of racism, its really unfair to just sling that term around inaccurately based on religious preferences. In my opinion.

The South was a clearly defined entity. It consisted of clearly defined states who chose to join it. If your state didn't choose to join that war, you can't be part of the South.

You can be part of the Bible Belt, but while the two share similarities, as we can see, they are not one in the same. The Bible Belt is a broader entity that contains parts of the Mid West, hence why Missouri and Kentucky and Oklahoma now get lumped in with "The South" but I feel its an unfair characterization.

There's a lot of stupid religious people in Kentucky, for sure. But that's not enough to justify lumping us in with treasonous racists who tried to destroy the nation.
 
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hodj_sl said:
You yourself said that you were in deep southern Kentucky. That's not a representative picture of the state. Its like going to New York but only going to Attica and then saying "Well I don't see what all the fuss is about New York, why its just full of small college towns."
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OH SO KENTUCKY HAS TO FITYOURDEFINITION

Gee, where do I remember seeing that....
 
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TheBeagle_sl said:
LOL. They wouldn't. I should know since i was born there and lived there for the first 20 years of my life. Okies most definitely consider themselves Southern. Get out of your liberal bubble bro!
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I've been googling around and it seems that Okies are torn on the issue and many consider themselves to be Mid Western as well

Here's an Okies take on why

South by Midwest: Or, Where is Oklahoma? | This Land Press

Before I come to that assertion, let me ask you, dear reader, who I trust has at least a passing interest in the nation's 46th state: Where is Oklahoma? Were someone on the street to ask you this question, you might turn to a political map of the United States and point to the meat cleaver above Texas. There it is, you would say, in the mid-south-central portion of the continental United States. But where is it culturally? Is it part of The South?

The U.S. Census Bureau says so. Generations of venerable southern historians, such as C. Vann Woodward, have said so. And this was the assertion I casually made on Facebook. Actually, what I said was that, as a Southerner, the word "heritage" (as in "Southern heritage") struck me as slightly sinister, but I wasn't quite sure why. I was quickly shot down by the sister of a very good friend, who happens to live in Birmingham. "Oklahoma is not the South, Russ," she said. "It's the Midwest." Another friend in Georgia sprung to my defense. "I've lived in the Deep South and Chicago. Oklahoma is definitely more Southern than Midwestern. Still, it's not quite the South either." A Canadian friend was confused. "Where does the South end?" he wanted to know. "Is the South synonymous with the Bible Belt?" In a famous article, one historian asserted that the best way to define the contemporary South was to examine the audience for religious television. The bigger the market share for televangelists, the more southern the place. By this calculation, Tulsa was either the buckle on the Bible Belt, or, at the very least, one of its belt holes.

A good friend who considers a trip to Dallas to be a visit to a foreign country tried to argue that Oklahoma was its own region, that it shouldn't be lumped together with any other state, especially not Texas. But this seemed strange, too, because there are some affinities between Texas and Oklahoma. Still, Okies have none of the bluster of Texans, and it's hard to imagine a tourism campaign with the slogan: "Oklahoma, it's like a whole other country." We don't do arrogance. When I was growing up, the slogan on license plates was "Oklahoma is OK." Not great, not terrible, just OK. The conversation went on for days. I could sense I was losing the argument. All the Oklahomans who posted seemed to think their native state was in the Midwest. This disturbed me, but why? There was something hopelessly dull and uninteresting about being from the Midwest. Someone else, a friend in New York, agreed. "It's in the Midwest, but I would rather it be in the South," she said. Why was the South an improvement on the Midwest? Being from the South had its own set of problems. And what about the Southwest? Maybe we were Southwesterners. -
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I would classify it as Mid West. It wasn't around to secede, if it was, maybe it would have. If it did, then it would certainly be included in the South. So, too, would Kentucky, had my beautiful native homeland chosen to make that horrible decision.

But we didn't.

So Midwesterners who fought for the North is my story and I'm sticking to it!
 
hodj

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Araysar_sl said:
OH SO KENTUCKY HAS TO FITYOURDEFINITION

Gee, where do I remember seeing that....
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No, the southern most portion of Kentucky certainly more greatly resembles the South, but its a low population, poverty high region that probably had a higher propensity of the minority who wanted to secede in it. But they were a minority, even at the time.

So no special pleading needed. If Kentucky had fought for the South, I'd admit they were part of the South. They are part of the Bible Belt, and I admit that.

But they weren't and aren't part of the South, because they didn't secede and didn't fight for the South.

Its really very simple brosef.
 
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hodj_sl said:
I've been googling around and it seems that Okies are torn on the issue and many consider themselves to be Mid Western as well

Here's an Okies take on why

South by Midwest: Or, Where is Oklahoma? | This Land Press



I would classify it as Mid West. It wasn't around to secede, if it was, maybe it would have. If it did, then it would certainly be included in the South. So, too, would Kentucky, had my beautiful native homeland chosen to make that horrible decision.

But we didn't.

So Midwesterners who fought for the North is my story and I'm sticking to it!
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LOL, googling!? My entire family is from there, I go back often to play golf with my old bros and tell American Inventor jokes, and half my FB are okies. Okies are oilfield trash from the South, there is no doubt about it. The eastern half are your Arkansas-type hillillies and the western half are wannabe texan hillbillies.

BTW I base the criteria for my labels on what's going on now, not 150 years ago.
 
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Well there's no slavery or secessionist movements in Kentucky today so yeah.

Oklahoma and Kentucky aren't the same place. Oklahoma was the 46th state. Kentucky was the 13th. Oklahoma was populated as you say by Texans and oil barons and shit. Kentucky was populated by poor Irish and German immigrants and former native Pennsylvanians.

Kentucky had the option to be part of the South, and rejected it.

And what's going on today in Kentucky? Well we had the best most successful roll out of the national health care plan, for one thing. Gay mayors all over the place. Diverse educational environments, large immigrant populations attending our schools.

Kentucky is poor and has a history of being religious. It makes us a target.

I'll be back in an hour or so. Got class.
 
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hodj_sl said:
And what's going on today in Kentucky? Well we had the best most successful roll out of the national health care plan, for one thing. Gay mayors all over the place. Diverse educational environments, large immigrant populations attending our schools.
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And an entirely Republican legislature on the local and national level as well as a large Tea Party component. Also, Senate Minority Leader is from KY, he is a Republican.

Oh and they gave Romney 23% more votes than Obama.
 
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And elected Clinton like twice back in the 90s.

The argument that were culturally south because they vote red is profoundly flawed. Beagles argument was essentially cultural as well. our culture is more Midwest than south as well.

Our state legislature was led by dems but something happened where the senate leader who was a dem was caught up in some scandal I can't recall all the details.

Also arrays are, our current governor is democrat and local city governments are typically blue heavy. We're a strange state politically but still not part of the south.

iPad typing is balls by the way. Holy fuck this shit sucks.
 
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this one video had this redneck shouting about how clinton is gonna clean house and shit as he was getting arrested by police for speed driving. pretty funny.
 
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