Mikhail and Hodj's Political Thread

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Numbers_sl

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CA Lt Governor to Chair Blue Ribbon Panel on Marijuana Legalization | NORML Blog, Marijuana Law Reform

Gavin Newsom, Lieutenant Governor of California, will chair a blue ribbon committee tasked with studying marijuana legalization in the state. This was announced at a joint press conference held this morning with the ACLU of California.

The panel will ?engage in a multi-year research effort to help voters and policy makers as they consider proposals to enact a strict tax and regulation scheme that will enable California to benefit from billions of dollars of potential revenue annually while protecting the health and safety of our children and communities.?

Joining Newsom on the panel will be ?leading legal, academic and policy experts from across the state and nation.?

The ACLU also released new polling data which revealed that 65% of Californians support legalizing and regulating marijuana, while only 32% were opposed and 3% undecided. You can view the full poll results here.
 

hodj

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Every way possible except giving workers control over the means of their work.
Wrong. The first thing the Chinese did was take over the land from the land owners and give it over to the poor. Production collapsed.

So then they tried to nationalize the farms. Production fell even further. Mass starvation resulted.

You guys couldn't be grasping at straws and misrepresenting the facts further if you tried.

Which is typical of apologist ideologues.
 

TrollfaceDeux

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No, production actually went up and people did better after they took the land from the landowners. The workers owned the means of production--not the state. State eventually took over and created massive communes. That's when they started to fuck up. Chinese, however, was very communal, unlike Europeans, so it wasn't as bad as it could have been
 

hodj

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Their industrial output went up at the expense of their agricultural output, which is why the Mao government then starting forcing them onto government owned farms and ordering them to up grain production for the cities which were burgeoning with population growth.

The goal was to modernize the economy by reforming both agriculture and industry further, but instead he ended up with famines because the grain doles were being withheld from the rural populations to keep the urban population centers from rioting.
 

hodj

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China's Great Leap Forward

Communist dream leads to mass death

The Great Leap Forward was begun in 1957 by Chairman Mao Zedong to bring the nation quickly into the forefront of economic development. Mao wanted China to become a leading industrial power, and to accomplish his goals he and his colleagues pushed for the construction of steel plants across the country.

The rural society was to keep pace with the dream by producing enough food to feed the country plus enough for export to help pay for industrialization. As a result of the Communist revolution, landowners had been stripped of their property, and by 1957 peasants already were forced to work in agricultural cooperatives.

These changes were intended to improve conditions for everyone by collectivizing agriculture and establishing communal eating facilities where peasants could eat all they wanted free of charge. This utopian dream turned into a nightmare as the central leadership grew increasingly out of touch with reality, Yang found through his study of government records and personal accounts.

At the beginning of the Great Leap Forward, Mao proclaimed that China would overtake Britain in production of steel and other products within 15 years. Other Chinese leaders, including Deng Xiaoping, supported Mao's enthusiasm, according to documents Yang studied in China.

A year later, Mao radically revised the timeline for catching up to Britain -- what was to be accomplished in 15 years now had to be done in just one more year, he said.

"Frequent changes in the timetable were symptomatic of the Great Leap, which, in retrospect, was fantasy incarnate. Even more exaggerated targets were subsequently presented, and then frequently revised upward, for steel, grain, cotton and other products. Any semblance of serious planning was abandoned," Yang said.

In pursuit of its goals, the government executed people who did not agree with the pace of radical change. The crackdown led to the deaths of 550,000 people by 1958.

The government also plunged the country into a deep debt by increasing spending on the development of heavy industry. Government spending on heavy industry grew in 1958 to represent 56 percent of state capital investment, an increase from 38 percent in 1956.

People were mobilized to accomplish the goals of industrialization. They built backyard furnaces for iron and steel and worked together on massive building projects, including one undertaken during the winter of 1957-58 in which more than 100 million peasants were mobilized to build large-scale water-conservation works.

Local leaders competed with one another to see who could create the most activity. In the rush to recruit labor, agricultural tasks were neglected, sometimes leaving the grain harvest to rot in the fields, Yang said. In the frenzy of competition, the leaders over-reported their harvests to their superiors in Beijing, and what was thought to be surplus grain was sold abroad.

Although in theory the country was awash in grain, in reality it was not. Rural communal mess halls were encouraged to supply food for free, but by the spring of 1959, the grain reserves were exhausted and the famine had begun.

No one is sure exactly how many people perished as a result of the spreading hunger. By comparing the number of deaths that could be expected under normal conditions with the number that occurred during the period of the Great Leap famine, scholars have estimated that somewhere between 16.5 million and 40 million people died before the experiment came to an end in 1961, making the Great Leap famine the largest in world history.

People abandoned their homes in search of food. Families suffered immensely, and reports of that suffering reached the members of the army, whose homes were primarily in rural areas. As soldiers received letters describing the suffering and the deaths, it became harder for leaders to maintain ideological discipline. Chaos developed in the countryside as rural militias became predatory, seizing grain, beating people and raping women. From famine to reform

During the struggle for survival, farmers in nearly one-third of the rural communities took matters into their own hands, abandoning the people's commune in favor of individual farming. Heavy central control was reduced, and the country's agricultural production improved.

Following Mao's death in 1976, central leaders disagreed over rural policies. Taking advantage of this policy paralysis, peasants and local cadres made alliances in those areas that had suffered severely from the Great Leap Famine and contracted land to the farm household. In just a few years' time, the people's communes were dismantled. Agricultural performance improved dramatically and gave momentum to the reforms under Deng.
When they dismantled the Communes is when production really increased. China was a wasteland until Mao died and Deng Xiaoping got power, and his reforms and fucking Nixon of all people opening up China before Mao died are the reason they aren't a massive North Korea today.
 

TrollfaceDeux

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The production was great and China did fantastic after Communist takeover. It got shit during Great Leap Forward, which coincidentally (lolno) occured after Mao's fallout with Stalin.
 

hodj

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The Soviets like burned all the technical diagrams for all the joint projects they were working on with the Chinese lol.

That's fucking cold.
 

hodj

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You know, from down here further south.. when cousins have babies together we don't let them keep it. The family forces it into foster care......

...

...

You may be more southern than you think.
lol.

Good point bro.
 

Soygen

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Where I live(Ft. Lauderdale) is "General American" accent. I feel so generic now.
 

Dumar_sl

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I quoted about 10,000 words of Mao. None of them were out of context. They were all in context and cited.

Your argument that Mao can't be communist because you say he isn't is shifting the burden of proof as to Mao's political leanings from examining Mao's life history and statements and political treatises, to asking you, a non authority on Mao, whether you think he was Communist or not based on your interpretation of his actions.

Disingenuous argument is disingenuous.
The activities of Mao and the emergence of Maoism are no criticism of Marx and his philosophy. That's disingenuous.

You're taking Maoist policy as evidence of what communism is as stated by Marx, then quoting his propaganda to as proof of the notion that the activity, not even the words, somehow indict Marx or his writings of mass terror and exploitation.

There is no burden of proof of mine whatsoever. Marx said what he said clearly, and I showed you as such. Just a quick walk of the wiki will spell it out yet again:

A climate of raw terror [under Mao] developed as workers denounced their bosses, spouses turned on their spouses, and children informed on their parents; the victims were often humiliated at struggle sessions, a method designed to intimidate and terrify people to the maximum. Mao insisted that minor offenders be criticized and reformed or sent to labor camps, "while the worst among them should be shot." These campaigns took several hundred thousand additional lives, the vast majority via suicide
Tell me how this raw terror emancipates man from man and his labor by free association as Marx explicitly states.

Yes, go back to your KY discussion and get away from Marx.
 

Loser Araysar

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Dumar, we found out today that Hodj is an inbred redneck.

I wouldnt trust anything he says
 

Dumar_sl

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Dumar, we found out today that Hodj is an inbred redneck.

I wouldnt trust anything he says
Is he arguing that the culture of KY isn't completely and utterly southern?

The best part of KY is its very rich cultural museums:Creation Museum - Prepare to Believe/

FOH FIELD TRIP!

The state-of-the-art 70,000 square foot museum brings the pages of the Bible to life, casting its characters and animals in dynamic form and placing them in familiar settings. Adam and Eve live in the Garden of Eden. Children play and dinosaurs roam near Eden's Rivers. The serpent coils cunningly in the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Majestic murals, great masterpieces brimming with pulsating colors and details, provide a backdrop for many of the settings.
 

Loser Araysar

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He also glossed over the fact that every federal politician from the state of KY is a Republican. Illinois, Ohio and Indiana have at least gone blue recently.
 

Soygen

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Hodj is clearly an outlier and, as such, is doing his best to reject those things. I can't blame the guy.
 
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