Mikhail and Hodj's Political Thread

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hodj

hodj

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No one is 'taking' anyone's farm in communism and giving it to another.
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Its like he tries to play stupid.

Dumar: If I own a farm, and you come and take it, even if you don't give it to anyone else to own, if you are sharing it with 3000000000000 other people, you have REDISTRIBUTED IT from me, unjustly.

Got it yet?

Stop beating around the bush pretending you don't know what I'm saying. You're not an idiot. Face the facts. You cannot justify STEALING LAND from a rightful owner who purchased that property under the old status quo regime by saying "WELL WE DIDN"T REALLY GIVE IT TO ANYONE ELSE TO OWN SO ITS OKAY LOLZ BUT BY THE WAY YOU CANT USE THE PROPERTY ANY MORE THESE OTHER 30 PEOPLE GET TO INSTEAD"

Disingenuous horseshit 3000 word paragraphs that refuse to address the actual question being asked are why you lost this debate.
 
Araysar

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No one owns land, Hodj. That is a false dichotomy created by capitalism.

The land and its riches and resources belong to all of us. An individual having "ownership" of a parcel of land was wrong to begin with.
 
hodj

hodj

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Araysar_sl said:
No one owns land, Hodj. That is a false dichotomy created by capitalism.

The land and its riches and resources belong to all of us. An individual having "ownership" of a parcel of land was wrong to begin with.
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Two wrongs fallacy.
 
Tanoomba

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hodj_sl said:
Whatever you say. By the way, have you killed any farmers for resisting your right to cut down their 30 year old walnut trees lately?
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Already covered. And paraphrased, in case the words were too difficult to comprehend the first time. This is willful ignorance.

hodj_sl said:
No, you really just need to explain how you're going to tell someone that you're taking their farm, and that they can no longer grow their walnut trees on it, while also claiming that you aren't redistributing their property, while also claiming that if they resist they must be slaughtered for daring to oppose social evolution, while simultaneously claiming that violence isn't in tune with your dogma.

But you should probably just save yourself the time, because absolutely no one reads it, or cares.
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3 points that have already been explained, now apparently being dismissed as the stuff "no one reads or cares about". I guess it's pretty easy to win arguments when you have the authority to decide that your opponent's points of view are worth neither reading nor attempting to comprehend. Well, it's easy to win those arguments in your head, at least.

Let's look forward to tomorrow's post where Hodj once again draws attention to the fact that he's going out of his way to give me one neg a day, despite the fact that nobody (including myself) gives a shit about nets or negs. Let's once again consider the intelligence level on display through this type of behavior.

"Critical thinking: Not even once" - The Hodj fan club motto.
 
D

Dumar_sl

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Araysar_sl said:
No one owns land, Hodj. That is a false dichotomy created by capitalism.

The land and its riches and resources belong to all of us. An individual having "ownership" of a parcel of land was wrong to begin with.
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The land and its richesdon't belong to anyone or anything. Theconceptof 'belong', the social relationship of me to you, of my owning this farm compared to you not owning this farm was discarded. This is psychological as well as socioeconomical, and as said, society has to be ready. The policy of such a society has to be deep into socialism before a generation renders the conceptual notion of ownership not needed any longer.

You can see how hard a concept this is to grasp because people can't conceptualize it: even if they reach the point of understanding no one owns anything, theystillthinkeveryone owns everything.
 
Araysar

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hodj_sl said:
Two wrongs fallacy.
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No wrong being committed here by communists. The only wrong being committed here is by capitalists who pass land through inheritance and accumulate more of it by "buying" more of it. The entire notion is meaningless. If land can be owned by individuals, then why cant water, swaths of ocean, air, air space, cosmos?
 
hodj

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The land and its riches don't belong to anyone or anything.
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Except the farm owner can produce a bill of sales and a contract and legal documents showing he does, in fact, own the land.

And you're going to take it from him.

And if he resists, you're going to kill him.

The concept of 'belong', the social relationship of me to you, of my owning this farm compared to you not owning this farm was discarded.
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This is literally a statement of nothing. If you're going to communalize the land, but I get to keep it and do with it as I please, then I still own it, and it wasn't communalized. If you communalize my land, force me off of it, and allow others to till it and grow their crops on it, then you redistributed it.

Save us the tautological nonsense. Saying "We're going to abandon the concept of ownership, but let you keep everything you own" is literally saying nothing, and saying "We're not going to redistribute your land, but we are going to take it and let others do with it as we desire" is literally contradicting yourself.

You can see how hard a concept this is to grasp because people can't conceptualize it:
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If people can't conceptualize something, they can't make it work.

Derp. You are literally arguing your philosophy is untenable.

Why are we doing this again? Because you're still sore you ca
 
khalid

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Essentially you won't take my farm away from me because I won't consider it my farm by then?

So your system has no hope of happening for several generations, is that what you are telling me? I can assure you, after all the time that my dad has spent there and I have spent helping him on that land, unless you are talking about my kid's kids or something, we will definitely still consider it our own.
 
hodj

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Lol forgot the end of my sentence while pre editing my post. It should say "Why are we doing this again? Because you're still sore you can't explain why Khalid's father has to give up his land and his trees or get killed for daring to oppose you"
 
hodj

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khalid_sl said:
Essentially you won't take my farm away from me because I won't consider it my farm by then?

So your system has no hope of happening for several generations, is that what you are telling me? I can assure you, after all the time that my dad has spent there and I have spent helping him on that land, unless you are talking about my kid's kids or something, we will definitely still consider it our own.
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Either you evolve with Dumar, or you die. So the reason you won't care is because I guess you'll be a corpse.
 
Araysar

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khalid_sl said:
Essentially you won't take my farm away from me because I won't consider it my farm by then?

So your system has no hope of happening for several generations, is that what you are telling me? I can assure you, after all the time that my dad has spent there and I have spent helping him on that land, unless you are talking about my kid's kids or something, we will definitely still consider it our own.
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I dont understand what makes it "your" farm. Break out of your feudal mindset.
 
D

Dumar_sl

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khalid_sl said:
Essentially you won't take my farm away from me because I won't consider it my farm by then?

So your system has no hope of happening for several generations, is that what you are telling me? I can assure you, after all the time that my dad has spent there and I have spent helping him on that land, unless you are talking about my kid's kids or something, we will definitely still consider it our own.
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Yes. I'm not going to be able to implement communism fully if I was elected anything. It's not possible without time and the change time brings, just as a capitalist couldn't convince feudal lords to come on over to capitalism.

'Your' farm is 'your' farm now because there is a social agreement of private property. And the only reason you really care about it 'as a piece of land we own' is because that land has provided sustenance in the form of a way of living to your family under capitalism (that is, it's made you money to buy nice things). As social forces and relations change in society, as capitalism keeps paving way into socialism, your ideas related to 'your farm' will change too.
 
hodj

hodj

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As social forces and relations change in society, as capitalism keeps paving way into socialism, your ideas related to 'your farm' will change too.
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There's that Eurocentric presumption of linear progression of society towards the European model of governance again.

Why so racist, Dumar?

Why so...white supremacist?
 
Araysar

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hodj_sl said:
There's that Eurocentric presumption of linear progression of society towards the European model of governance again.

Why so racist, Dumar?

Why so...white supremacist?
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Strawman fallacy

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Ad Hominem

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Guilt by association




Very poor form, Hodjie
 
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