Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Kirun

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I actually don't know if Kirun enjoys ANYTHING lol
I pretty much jerk off to Elden Ring. I've mentioned it multiple times as the greatest game of all time, and I constantly use it as the prime example of how to create genuine difficulty without making the game feel unfair or needlessly wasting the player's time.

I enjoy plenty of different things. My criticism of MnM isn't that I hate old-school MMO design or that I need everything to be easy. It's that I recognize the patterns in the genre.

A lot of what we're seeing with MnM feels like taking the friction of 1999-era MMOs (slow progression, limited spawns, downtime, corpse runs, forced grouping, travel friction, etc.)and treating that friction itself as the thing that made those games great. But there's a huge difference between a mechanic creating meaningful decisions, cooperation, mastery, or tension and a mechanic simply consuming more of the player's time.

Maybe they'll prove me wrong. I genuinely hope they do. But so far, I’m not seeing much that suggests they're actually breaking those patterns or fundamentally rethinking them. I’m seeing a lot of familiar MMO friction being presented as though the friction itself is the innovation.

That's why I keep bringing up Elden Ring. It proves you can make a game brutally difficult, demand mastery, punish mistakes, and create meaningful friction without confusing wasted time with meaningful difficulty.
 

Pasteton

Vyemm Raider
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. That’s like butting into a discussion about tits versus ass and raving about how great cock is. Like, you do you but that’s a totally different thing than this.
 
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Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
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. That’s like butting into a discussion about tits versus ass and raving about how great cock is. Like, you do you but that’s a totally different thing than this.
It's just an example. There are plenty of other games I could point to.

Hell, I still play the shit out of EQ every few years when an interesting TLP comes around. I have absolutely no problem with an old-school MMO. But even those TLPs are usually EQ with a heavily modified ruleset and a ton of modern QoL layered on top. There's a reason only a few thousand people still actively want the authentic 1999 EQ experience.

That's ultimately my point with MnM. It's so heavily modeled on EQ that I think you have to acknowledge the math behind that design just doesn't work out long-term. You can't just assume that because EQ had these mechanics, reproducing them wholesale today will produce the same result.

So I don't really think the tits-vs-ass analogy fits. I'm not butting into a conversation about tits and ass to start talking about cock. I'm looking at people raving about how amazing these tits are while pointing out that they're clearly fake and deformed and the response is essentially, "No, they're exactly like the tits from 1999, therefore they're great, no matter how fake and deformed they are!"