Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Sloan · Monday at 2:02 AM

Daidraco said:
Given the groundwork and "idea" of the game, I just dont see how they can get away from the "gamey" feel if they dont want to utilize instancing, dailies/weeklies, etc. that people say "ruined" WoW.

That Bone Construct "Cage" is just one example of what theyre working on and for that encounter, it seems fine for what it is. If anything, I think they should add more flare to that one encounter - like the group that "triggers" the event stabs the ground and a shield goes around group members, stunning them for a brief second - while the bone construct spawns, slams the ground, and everyone thats not in that bubble or w/e is grav fluxed out of the room. Presentation and all that.

Same with the raid boss that spawns in a sand storm. The group that triggers that boss makes an action of "hunkering" down in the sand storm, and everyone outside of that group is "feared" with blinding sand on their screen and they run to the perimeter of a "sand storm wall" before the fear ends. Unable to get back past that sand storm wall until the encounter is over.

Just two examples that come fresh to my mind with the limited bit that I experienced before stepping away from the game.

I dont necessarily understand what hes getting at, or trying to elaborate on.. with boss encounters being able to spawn every 15 minutes for example. But again, I'm not against most of the changes Ive seen taking place when it comes to raid bosses. Gamey or not.

Just let people compete for raid mobs and have a no petition for raid conflicts policy. Put in a couple spawnable raid encounters like pustulax so casuals can still do raid content. If people quit because they cant handle it then the vision of the game was bad and it will fail. They are leaning into sacrificing their vision of the game to cater to people crying, which is a very bad thing.

Teylk · Wednesday at 5:39 PM

Anyone want a beta invite? Send me a pm

Kithani · Thursday at 8:20 AM

Sloan said:
Just let people compete for raid mobs and have a no petition for raid conflicts policy. Put in a couple spawnable raid encounters like pustulax so casuals can still do raid content. If people quit because they cant handle it then the vision of the game was bad and it will fail. They are leaning into sacrificing their vision of the game to cater to people crying, which is a very bad thing.

Unhinged p99 tardism has never been their vision if you read their FAQ

moonarchia · Thursday at 9:59 AM

Sloan said:
Just let people compete for raid mobs and have a no petition for raid conflicts policy. Put in a couple spawnable raid encounters like pustulax so casuals can still do raid content. If people quit because they cant handle it then the vision of the game was bad and it will fail. They are leaning into sacrificing their vision of the game to cater to people crying, which is a very bad thing.

They are trying to make a commercially viable product. They will have to deviate from the vision pretty widely to make that happen. I am wishing them luck, but their ideal game is a mish mash of everything that the market has rejected for the past 25 years. Those "crying" people are the ones they need in order to keep the business afloat.

GuardianX · 2026-07-31T10:39:55-0400

Sloan said:
Just let people compete for raid mobs and have a no petition for raid conflicts policy. Put in a couple spawnable raid encounters like pustulax so casuals can still do raid content. If people quit because they cant handle it then the vision of the game was bad and it will fail. They are leaning into sacrificing their vision of the game to cater to people crying, which is a very bad thing.

I don't see the point of not having ALL of them be a summoned encounter.

Everything Trent (Yeah I know...) has said in the past points to an idea that they want most the end content to be an "Effort" or "Work as a team within your group / guild" to achieve and I dunno why raiding has to be any different.

The interesting / concerning part to me is they are quietly / unofficially working on "RaidID" now, months before "RELEASE". Seems super against the wire.

---

Gatekeeping conversation-wise..

I kinda wanna see what a MMO would be like with a "group-centric" mentality. THJ did well, legends looks to be doing "Well?" both games are centered on small groups taking out raid targets, granted both "games" are focused on milking the autismo cash cows that circle EQ's rotting carcass...

The conversation has always been about "the journey" in MNM and not focused on some faceless (lol) Zerg guilds taking down content. (I dunno why they haven't implemented strict guild size limits given the focus is on group content...but thats another can of worms. *looks over at the guild roster approaching a thousand people* )

Most of the loot / drops in MNM are heavily dependent on lack of information and misinformation / disinformation anyhow, so, with enough time you will always have people sitting at a boss waiting for the window.

I dunno, I'll drop to your expertise on that one; Was Rampage super thrilled at contesting zerg guilds for world targets that were nothing more than tank and spank encounters? Sure the loot is great but man that shit was boring.

- Personally I think it would be a ton of fun if the encounters were like you said and weren't FTE, as well as; didn't have a fucking 8 HOUR window (set spawn time, reset only on quakes that would offset the boss 8 hours each week), had raid mechanics that scaled based on how many people were in the arena (could fuck with guilds in a Soft PVP manner), had gear that was comparable to the level the encounter was intended at with passives / procs (if they keep level locked) OR gave unique gear with passives / procs ( essentially side-grades / spec specific - if unlocked).

Mrniceguy · 2026-07-31T11:16:41-0400

moonarchia said:
They are trying to make a commercially viable product. They will have to deviate from the vision pretty widely to make that happen. I am wishing them luck, but their ideal game is a mish mash of everything that the market has rejected for the past 25 years. Those "crying" people are the ones they need in order to keep the business afloat.

They're trying to meet a niche unserved market that the developers themselves are part of, making this WoW/FF with worse graphics, AI and less content isn't going to do that.

Kirun · 2026-07-31T12:01:02-0400

Mrniceguy said:
They're trying to meet a niche unserved market that the developers themselves are part of, making this WoW/FF with worse graphics, AI and less content isn't going to do that.

There's a reason it's unserved - the market for this type of game in 2026 is dozens large.

Copy/pasting "member berries" from EQ isn't a viable business plan. Even EQ itself had to pivot to stay afloat. TLPs are a vastly different thing than what EQ was in '99.

GuardianX · 2026-07-31T12:27:52-0400

Kirun said:
Copy/pasting "member berries" from EQ isn't a viable business plan. Even EQ itself had to pivot to stay afloat. TLPs are a vastly different thing than what EQ was in '99.

I wonder about this, the beta has like 30,000 accounts "Activated" and this is their monthly:

I wonder what the stats will be after the next update that adds the Deep and a couple more races.

Mrniceguy · 2026-07-31T12:33:34-0400

Kirun said:
There's a reason it's unserved - the market for this type of game in 2026 is dozens large.

Copy/pasting "member berries" from EQ isn't a viable business plan. Even EQ itself had to pivot to stay afloat. TLPs are a vastly different thing than what EQ was in '99.

Yes most MMOs made in the past 10 years have been made by people that wanted to maximize profit first and gameplay game second.

Games that have been gameplay first and profits second are almost always more enjoyable to play. If they changed to profit first and gameplay second this will just end up as a shitty version of WoW and i'm not interested in that.

I haven't played a game this Immersive in a decade and i'm absolutely loving it.

Kirun · 2026-07-31T12:48:21-0400

Mrniceguy said:
Yes most MMOs made in the past 10 years have been made by people that wanted to maximize profit first and gameplay game second.

Games that have been gameplay first and profits second are almost always more enjoyable to play. If they changed to profit first and gameplay second this will just end up as a shitty version of WoW and i'm not interested in that.

I haven't played a game this Immersive in a decade and i'm absolutely loving it.

Yeah, it's weird. Almost like a business has to actually make a profit to stick around. Weird how all the "for funsies" projects just can't seem to stay afloat...

Kithani · 2026-07-31T12:56:41-0400

GuardianX said:
I wonder about this, the beta has like 30,000 accounts "Activated" and this is their monthly:

View attachment 635846

I wonder what the stats will be after the next update that adds the Deep and a couple more races.

It’ll be interesting to see EA for sure. I think there’s a reasonable argument many have “quit” until EA but there’s also a fair number that may be checking the game out and may not sub when it costs $

Mrniceguy · 2026-07-31T13:00:30-0400

Kirun said:
Yeah, it's weird. Almost like a business has to actually make a profit to stick around. Weird how all the "for funsies" projects just can't seem to stay afloat...

What alternate universe are you living in?

Many of the most successful games of the past 3-4 years have been Gameplay first games. BG3, Hogwarts, Palword, Elden Ring. They all focused on the vision and stayed away from things like scummy MTX and mechanics focused on maximizing profits over gameplay. The best selling MMO of all time was raking in cash when it was gameplay first.

Kirun · 2026-07-31T13:29:25-0400

Mrniceguy said:
What alternate universe are you living in?

Many of the most successful games of the past 3-4 years have been Gameplay first games. BG3, Hogwarts, Palword, Elden Ring. They all focused on the vision and stayed away from things like scummy MTX and mechanics focused on maximizing profits over gameplay. The best selling MMO of all time was raking in cash when it was gameplay first.

Because those products had a clear vision and executed it.

MnM is doing a "paint by numbers, how did EQ do it in '99?" design doc. They have no idea what they want the game to be and when unsure, they just answer their questions with - "Like EQ!".

Araxen · 2026-07-31T13:45:27-0400

GuardianX said:
I wonder about this, the beta has like 30,000 accounts "Activated" and this is their monthly:

View attachment 635846

I wonder what the stats will be after the next update that adds the Deep and a couple more races.

Most people aren't playing because barely any of the class revamps are in. I'm sure they've taken a hit from EQL too. Things will bounce back once all the revamps are in. I know I'm not playing till all the revamps are in.

fanaskin · 2026-07-31T16:11:56-0400

GuardianX said:
I wonder about this, the beta has like 30,000 accounts "Activated" and this is their monthly:

View attachment 635846

I wonder what the stats will be after the next update that adds the Deep and a couple more races.

They took the raids out, there's no high level dungeons like fallen watch in, there's literally nothing to do at 60 atm.

i've already got BIS before hitting 60.

EA is going to be AT LEAST 2 years by the looks of things.

Sloan · 2026-08-01T02:41:32-0400

GuardianX said:
I dunno, I'll drop to your expertise on that one; Was Rampage super thrilled at contesting zerg guilds for world targets that were nothing more than tank and spank encounters? Sure the loot is great but man that shit was boring.

- Personally I think it would be a ton of fun if the encounters were like you said and weren't FTE, as well as; didn't have a fucking 8 HOUR window (set spawn time, reset only on quakes that would offset the boss 8 hours each week), had raid mechanics that scaled based on how many people were in the arena (could fuck with guilds in a Soft PVP manner), had gear that was comparable to the level the encounter was intended at with passives / procs (if they keep level locked) OR gave unique gear with passives / procs ( essentially side-grades / spec specific - if unlocked).

The consensus in Rampage I think you know is that it was silly, just like the consensus in early P99 was that it was silly to sit on Nagy or VS for 5 hours etc., however it is also much more preferable to the themepark mmo just log on for an hour or two with the bros and get your personal raid and lootbox style extraction/mmo that has dominated for the last 15 years. I say extraction/mmo because i do not consider these mmos anymore, but some profitable mix of extraction games with mmo vibes. Noone actually likes the poopsock, but I will tell you what it sure FEELS more like a mmo world with people interacting and their conflict / cooperation deciding outcomes than whatever slop passes for MMOs now....so i think the proper question is do they like it better than the alternatives.

Theres so much they can do to the encounters to make them open world competitive and also anti poopsock. Unfortunately, it seems that they are leaning in the direction of just reducing the open world friction side of it. Will be a mistake if they do, the casuals will play for a few months then go play something else like always. There needs to be difficult and scarce content to keep hardcore people engaged as this game fundamentally appeals to the hardcore mmo gamer. Im talking VP and VT keying where it will take even a hardcore guild a few weeks or more to get a sizeable raid keyed/attuned, raid zones like VP or Molten Core / BWL etc. where even the trash mobs require coordinated clearing, etc.

Even the current conflicts that came up in raiding are, in my opinion, a great thing for an MMO. Two guilds had a rotation and didnt want to let other guild in. Other guild proceeds to take most the raid mobs because they were born in the FTE fires of P99. Totally organic social gameplay - and Rampage would have cooperated in the end, especially because its just a beta, but instead the crying caused the devs to intervene before each side could end the nerd rage and come to terms. When the GMs or devs come in and act as a backstop to it all, it creates horrible incentive structures that ruin things. Granted this is a beta so it isnt really fair to the devs to say that this would be their solution in the actual game.

Araxen · 2026-08-01T02:49:11-0400

I really wonder if M&M should pivot to an EQL style of game strictly for profit. It's obvious where the most money you can make is at. Triple class style solo player experience.The ultimate question is how do you churn out enough content to satisfy that experience? They are in this area where it may be smart to pivot to that so you can exploit it. WoW really isn't that kind of game that can pivot that fast to exploit. M&M could usher in that kind of game. They are at a point of content that they really could do it.

Kithani · 2026-08-01T13:53:16-0400

Sloan said:
The consensus in Rampage I think you know is that it was silly, just like the consensus in early P99 was that it was silly to sit on Nagy or VS for 5 hours etc., however it is also much more preferable to the themepark mmo just log on for an hour or two with the bros and get your personal raid

Imagine being a grown adult and actually thinking this.

“I’d rather sit doing literally nothing for 5 hours than be able to log in and actually play for 2 hours if it means other people can too!”

This game is comically doomed lmao

GuardianX · 2026-08-01T14:51:08-0400

Sloan said:
The consensus in Rampage I think you know is that it was silly, just like the consensus in early P99 was that it was silly to sit on Nagy or VS for 5 hours etc., however it is also much more preferable to the themepark mmo just log on for an hour or two with the bros and get your personal raid and lootbox style extraction/mmo that has dominated for the last 15 years. I say extraction/mmo because i do not consider these mmos anymore, but some profitable mix of extraction games with mmo vibes. Noone actually likes the poopsock, but I will tell you what it sure FEELS more like a mmo world with people interacting and their conflict / cooperation deciding outcomes than whatever slop passes for MMOs now....so i think the proper question is do they like it better than the alternatives.

Theres so much they can do to the encounters to make them open world competitive and also anti poopsock. Unfortunately, it seems that they are leaning in the direction of just reducing the open world friction side of it. Will be a mistake if they do, the casuals will play for a few months then go play something else like always. There needs to be difficult and scarce content to keep hardcore people engaged as this game fundamentally appeals to the hardcore mmo gamer. Im talking VP and VT keying where it will take even a hardcore guild a few weeks or more to get a sizeable raid keyed/attuned, raid zones like VP or Molten Core / BWL etc. where even the trash mobs require coordinated clearing, etc.

Even the current conflicts that came up in raiding are, in my opinion, a great thing for an MMO. Two guilds had a rotation and didnt want to let other guild in. Other guild proceeds to take most the raid mobs because they were born in the FTE fires of P99. Totally organic social gameplay - and Rampage would have cooperated in the end, especially because its just a beta, but instead the crying caused the devs to intervene before each side could end the nerd rage and come to terms. When the GMs or devs come in and act as a backstop to it all, it creates horrible incentive structures that ruin things. Granted this is a beta so it isnt really fair to the devs to say that this would be their solution in the actual game.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the "So much they can do" part because the only thing that I could think of the bridges the gap between your first sentiment of poop-sock VS lootbox was:

- No Lockouts (let people no life, lets a guild hold down an encounter for as long as they want)
- No Lockdown (Makes it very challenging to hold down an encounter, make every (named?) mob over X level drop a component and require component COUNT not specific part (NOT "top LEFT" level specificity

- No Level Locks

Then some side thoughts on the encounters:

- (if open arenas) Scale encounters to the participant count
- (if structured / scripted) Aggressive encounters, highly focused on maintaining control (AI seeks out healers / CCers / "Soft Targets"), use the world as a weapon (Nyxx / GTA VI will use pushback abilities or "Force Choke" type abilities that have the possibility of throwing players off the top / out of the balcony | BC will place players in suspension in a casket ... ect)

- Realm Benefit (Stacking modifier on zone effects / zone buffs)
- (not anchored on this one) Focused loot (spec specific?) / + Betterer Loot / "Interesting" Loot (maybe not statistically better)

Mrniceguy · 2026-08-01T15:17:46-0400

GuardianX said:
I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on the "So much they can do" part because the only thing that I could think of the bridges the gap between your first sentiment of poop-sock VS lootbox was:

There is a lot of options they have.

Summoned based on drops.
Summoned based on Quest chains.
More raid mobs with quicker spawns. Poop socking on EQ TLPs/EMUs is/was always much more common in the early eras in large part due to how little raid and max level content is around.
More non-raid ways to obtain gear PvP, Tradeskill, Quests ect.

Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Molten Core Raider

Trakanon Raider

Vyemm Raider

The Scientific Shitlord

Perpetually Pessimistic

Blackwing Lair Raider

Buzzfeed Editor

Perpetually Pessimistic

Blackwing Lair Raider

Buzzfeed Editor

Vyemm Raider

Blackwing Lair Raider

Buzzfeed Editor

Golden Baronet of the Realm

Well known agitator

Molten Core Raider

Golden Baronet of the Realm

Vyemm Raider

Perpetually Pessimistic

Blackwing Lair Raider