Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

GuardianX

GuardianX

Perpetually Pessimistic
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Feel like it's easier to list the classes that can't solo.

Clerics, rogues, fighters, spellblade (not entirely sure but pretty sure).

Everyone else can solo with scaling degrees of success.

---

I wanna ask here, the topic of bard twisting has been a hot one,

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the OG question:

Not if they were all combined! You'd use your damage abilities, CC or the rest of your kit.

I don't think anyone has a problem with normal ability usage. It's the monotonous repetition of song after song x5 per 18s ad nauseam that can be off putting to some players.
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Xilith [MnM]'s response

It can be offputting to some players, but removing it destroys it for others. It's not about the monotony of maintaining the same songs, it's about the choice at each song to change to something that better suits the current situation or not. We could have made bards just have a few maintained buffs and a couple of melee abilities, to give them something to press, but that doesn't really appeal to most that truly love the class.
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That legit made me wonder: Do people who play bards "LOVE" twisting? I played a bard in OG eq and I thought of twisting as nothing more than a means to an end.

Are there morons / mouthbreathers out there that fucking ENJOY twisting?
 
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Kithani

Kithani

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GuardianX said:
Feel like it's easier to list the classes that can't solo.

Clerics, rogues, fighters, spellblade (not entirely sure but pretty sure).

Everyone else can solo with scaling degrees of success.

---

I wanna ask here, the topic of bard twisting has been a hot one,

discord.com

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Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.
discord.com discord.com





That legit made me wonder: Do people who play bards "LOVE" twisting? I played a bard in OG eq and I thought of twisting as nothing more than a means to an end.

Are there morons / mouthbreathers out there that fucking ENJOY twisting?
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There are two different questions:

Did people that played Bards in 1999-2003 enjoy twisting?

Does the kind of person playing a bard in MNM/P99 in 2026 enjoy twisting?

I agree I would never play without some keyboard macros, it is lame gameplay IMO. Vanguard bard was an excellent take on the class.

The devs are completely out of touch by talking about instrument swapping in their 1995 level UI also
 
GuardianX

GuardianX

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Fair on both replies.

That community is gaslighting me so hard into thinking there are swathes of morons out there clamoring for fucking keyboard twisting of all songs and the only thing holding bards back is the lack of more songs to choose from.
 
Flobee

Flobee

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GuardianX said:
Feel like it's easier to list the classes that can't solo.

Clerics, rogues, fighters, spellblade (not entirely sure but pretty sure).

Everyone else can solo with scaling degrees of success.

---

I wanna ask here, the topic of bard twisting has been a hot one,

discord.com

Discord - Group Chat That’s All Fun & Games

Discord is great for playing games and chilling with friends, or even building a worldwide community. Customize your own space to talk, play, and hang out.
discord.com discord.com





That legit made me wonder: Do people who play bards "LOVE" twisting? I played a bard in OG eq and I thought of twisting as nothing more than a means to an end.

Are there morons / mouthbreathers out there that fucking ENJOY twisting?
Click to expand...
I think there is value is having a rhythm to decision making, ~3 seconds in bards case. There is something enjoyable about it but I honestly don't think you really need to require the bard to click a song every 3 seconds for that to work. /Melody was a good solution to allow the class to remain how it was designed but removing the requirement to make that decision with a key press vs just letting it cycle, or breaking the cycle to change what is next.

I 100% get why they don't want /Melody due to bard bots, but I would be interested to see a design that keeps the spirit without requiring manual twisting constantly. I'll probably have a bard as an alt at least though because I enjoy the play style.
 
Kirun

Kirun

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Quaid said:
Ya that was not my intent there. I was operating under the assumption that everyone here understands a bulk /played time in a classic era MMORPG includes everything from grinding efficiently, to corpse runs, to standing around shooting the shit, to tradeskilling, to idle LFG time, etc etc.
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Right, and I get that. I don't think anyone here is pretending /played in a classic MMORPG is pure "active progression" time. Half the identity of games inspired by EverQuest was all the downtime, socializing, recovery, travel, and general world friction wrapped around the actual gameplay loop.

I guess my point is more about whether that structure still scales well with modern player expectations. Back in the day, the downtime was part of the content because the social layer carried so much of the experience. Sitting around a camp for 20 minutes chatting, doing corpse runs, waiting for boats, hanging out LFG, etc. That all felt more acceptable because online worlds themselves were still novel and social spaces on the internet were more fragmented.

In 2026 though, I think a lot of players evaluate games more through the lens of "how consistently engaging is my session?" rather than "how immersive is the downtime?"

That's why I'm hesitant to look at 450 hours and automatically say "that sounds fair." If a huge percentage of that time is friction rather than meaningful gameplay, I don't know that modern audiences are as tolerant of it anymore outside of a dedicated niche. And to be clear, I'm not arguing everything should become instant-gratification lobby gameplay either. A slower MMO absolutely can work. I just think games like Monsters & Memories are going to live or die based on whether the moment-to-moment experience remains compelling enough to justify that pacing.

That's also why I think the future probably leans more toward the "solo-forward but socially alive" structure I've talked about before. Games like Erenshor but obviously broader in scope are the future of the MMO market IMO.
 
Quaid

Quaid

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Kirun said:
Right, and I get that. I don't think anyone here is pretending /played in a classic MMORPG is pure "active progression" time. Half the identity of games inspired by EverQuest was all the downtime, socializing, recovery, travel, and general world friction wrapped around the actual gameplay loop.

I guess my point is more about whether that structure still scales well with modern player expectations. Back in the day, the downtime was part of the content because the social layer carried so much of the experience. Sitting around a camp for 20 minutes chatting, doing corpse runs, waiting for boats, hanging out LFG, etc. That all felt more acceptable because online worlds themselves were still novel and social spaces on the internet were more fragmented.

In 2026 though, I think a lot of players evaluate games more through the lens of "how consistently engaging is my session?" rather than "how immersive is the downtime?"

That's why I'm hesitant to look at 450 hours and automatically say "that sounds fair." If a huge percentage of that time is friction rather than meaningful gameplay, I don't know that modern audiences are as tolerant of it anymore outside of a dedicated niche. And to be clear, I'm not arguing everything should become instant-gratification lobby gameplay either. A slower MMO absolutely can work. I just think games like Monsters & Memories are going to live or die based on whether the moment-to-moment experience remains compelling enough to justify that pacing.

That's also why I think the future probably leans more toward the "solo-forward but socially alive" structure I've talked about before. Games like Erenshor but obviously broader in scope are the future of the MMO market IMO.
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I absolutely agree. If you’re playing this like a full-attention RPG at a desk in a gaming chair you’re gonna have a shit time. It just won’t have the deliverables that would make that feel good.

Chilling on a laptop while you’re watching TV, the kids are playing in the other room, you’re texting making plans, and you’re doing laundry? Now you’re cooking with with gas.
 
Kithani

Kithani

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Flobee said:
I think there is value is having a rhythm to decision making, ~3 seconds in bards case. There is something enjoyable about it but I honestly don't think you really need to require the bard to click a song every 3 seconds for that to work. /Melody was a good solution to allow the class to remain how it was designed but removing the requirement to make that decision with a key press vs just letting it cycle, or breaking the cycle to change what is next.

I 100% get why they don't want /Melody due to bard bots, but I would be interested to see a design that keeps the spirit without requiring manual twisting constantly. I'll probably have a bard as an alt at least though because I enjoy the play style.
Click to expand...
Shards of Dalaya handled it well IMO if you’re really hellbent on the “twisting” style of gameplay.

You got 4 songs to pick, 2 offensive / 2 defensive (buffs). The defensive ones you toggled on and played constantly, but in combat you had to twist the offensive ones.
 
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