New Progression Server confirmed

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
Ah. Yeah, you weren't going to win that one, not with the way respawns worked and the amount of farming we'd already done to key our way up there. Did anyone else even ever make it past bees in vanilla? I don't remember.

POS is nothing but a waste of time and always has been anyway.
We cleared the Eye right around when I went on break for my bowel surgery - I know I was there for the trial run when we failed - I think I was on break for surgery, which eventually became me quitting since it was like 6 weeks before I could sit up - before it died though, but I do recall that DHS did report a kill of it.

But yea, that was most of your rant was "we weren't going to make it past bees" - when at the time we were just finishing with bees (I think we even finished it that night - if not, it was the next night).

Not sure if there was anyone besides EoE and DHS though.
 

Creslin

Trakanon Raider
2,375
1,077
Kreugans take on what the server should be seems pretty good. I don't really agree on skipping classic as an xpac tho. Just instance one zone in each level range. Pick the least popular dungeon zone in each range and reduce its modifier to 1x and instance it. Problem.. well mitigated a ton even if its not solved.

Hell in Classic you just pretty much just instance permafrost and have content 5-50.
 

Zaide

TLP Idealist
3,741
4,398
We finished Sky in April. Server first was 22MAR2011

I've still got some videos of us doing Bazzt and Hand, no Eye videos though. EoV was unfortunately a joke by the time you got to her.

I loved Sky loot. Those quested haste belts were awesome.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
No worries I didn't take it to heart. Just a really good memory for things.
 

Rangoth

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,566
1,715
EoE didn't even exist at the beginning, the server was wide open until then. There were a few large-to-huge pre-formed guilds that just didn't seem interested in raiding early on that certainly had the opportunity.

So done quickly (as I tab back and forth) here would be my way of doing it, in rough order of return for investment/likelyhood of happening:

-Open with Kunark (better zones - there simply isn't enough room for the surge of players because vanilla's mob population is extremely poorly distributed, this has been proven four times over now)
-Reduce 26 minute zone spawn timers to ~15 or less, in effect making zones "denser" and counteracting the general increase in class power / player density
-Allow TSS OOC regen because holy shit 20+ minute med times are dead, dead, dead and should stay that way. (plus its a class balance issue - think of the game as being tuned for TSS and work from there)
-Double the HP of pre-Velious raid bosses plus if possible some further tuning to make them relevant and interesting again (easier than de-tuning nearly two decades of class balance changes just to do undo it all later.)
-Find a better way to throttle XP than the awful xp cap you tried last time
-Instanced copies of all raid zones with no drop loot. Remove open-world versions because the CS staff to handle them no longer exists
-Whether or not to leave general zone pop in instanced versions untouched as a leveling alternative (over-population solution) is up for debate (no respawn?) but I'd lean towards no


Other randomness:

-Three month time lock worked fine, but voting turned out to be redundant and destructive (the one time a vote failed, the population was decimated. Without voting, there's no disappointment - everyone knows what the pace will be and what to plan for)
-You'll want to take the hell out of the hellish key camps for VP, VT and epics etc because you are going to have an unprecedented number of people trying to do them at once if you do the above. (multiple drops?)
-You may as well activate mercs with Luclin because that's when the majority of "groups" out in the world are boxers or frustrated people trying to find the one open spot in a boxed group. AA essentially destroys social grouping. We've seen it over and over. People try to blame instancing for something that actually occurs much earlier with the introduction of the endless XP grind.

And if this destroys your precious nostalgia, consider this: How much nostalgia do you get from two guys killing the first Nagafen on the server? How about one shaman solo breaking fear? Trakanon dying in 7 seconds?

It's a lot easier (in $$$) to take TSS as a starting point and rework from there, than trying to undo it all and add it back one expansion at a time.

Hrm, clearly, I like to babble on this subject. Apologies. None of the people who are only interested in the first 5% of EQ will agree with any of this, but it's fun watching them repeat the same shit that will never happen over and over.
Perfect, thread done honestly
smile.png
Please do all of this.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
Crossposted it over onto the Live TLP forum - left Kreugen anon as an "ex-EOE I'm not naming" in the crosspost.
 

Apostolos

Golden Knight of the Realm
430
219
I posted for the first time since 2013 on the eq forums. Someone was saying they wanted everything put back the way it was in 99. After saying it was too much work and that p99 existed so go play that, my forum account was banned for 5 days. 2 posts after 2 years and a ban for just mentioning p99. Then the email listed for @daybreak something or other bounced back as not even a valid email address.
 

yerm

Golden Baronet of the Realm
6,001
15,473
I'd love if they put in enough effort to have instanced raids be guild-related with a locked timer. For example, the guild must have existed for x number of days, and anyone raiding been a member of said guild for y amount of time already. If it's 1 of each instance per guild, that punishes guilds who zerg recruit to try to own the world spawns. Just require a person to be in the guild for a week before raiding or however long there so you can't rotate guilds to repeat it.

I still want open world zones WITH the instances. I want both. 100% open world with the long lockouts and no restrictions sucked, because I played shit like league of legends while poopsocking a spawn more than I played fucking everquest. 100% instanced sucks because there's zero racing or competition or drama or really much fun.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
Yep that's the one point I disagree with Kreugen's thing (for the top part at least, bottom I don't agree with too much) - I think having the uninstanced left behind makes more sense.
 

Rangoth

Blackwing Lair Raider
1,566
1,715
I still want open world zones WITH the instances. I want both. 100% open world with the long lockouts and no restrictions sucked, because I played shit like league of legends while poopsocking a spawn more than I played fucking everquest. 100% instanced sucks because there's zero racing or competition or drama or really much fun.
Don't wanna hijack the thread but this has been proven false time and time again man. People still compete, there are still "haves" and "have nots", drama, and fun....just more people get to have it than you and your leet buddies.

I do not think ALL things should be instanced, just "raids" or "progression" or whatever. I love the social, grouping, random aspect of eq for most normal zones. It cant be denied that during progression so many people are playing that zones are overcrowded as shit, but that's a problem specific to progression, the limited zone choice, and universal "start" time so everyone is the same level at the same time. Personally I think this helps make progression feel different and it's not worth addressing since it dissipates so quickly. Kreugen's suggestion of starting with Kunark open deals with it mostly, and most importantly, in a very easy way.

I would literally bet the bank that if progression were character/guild based AND raids/progression mobs were instanced you would see double or more increase in the population for the progression server.

EDIT: Actually I really like the idea of guild based the more I think of it. It will encourage friendship and teamwork, guilds are easy to make now, and it prevents the "back-raiding" crap if you recruit new members. They can go to whatever the guild has unlocked. Only problem I can see is if you get guild booted, and I suppose you could just retain last guild zone rights until you join a new guild or something. Minor problem since all you will be doing without a guild is xping anyway.

This lets everyone participate in a true progression style EQ, limited only by their numbers, organization, and skill in how far they can go from Vanilla to whatever the new 3 letter acronym is.
 

yerm

Golden Baronet of the Realm
6,001
15,473
Don't wanna hijack the thread but this has been proven false time and time again man. People still compete, there are still "haves" and "have nots", drama, and fun....just more people get to have it than you and your leet buddies.
I haven't seen that. Past progression servers seemed to be at peak activity during competition periods and stagnated both when content became noncompetitive (rotations or just dominated) or when the game reached instances (ldon and beyond). On the first one, the server seemed to really bottom down with minimal participation near the end of kunark when roi and foh got shoved into a trak rotation and other mobs weren't overly competed for. It was bustling in velious until roi zerged it into the floor, and seemed much livelier at the end of luclin (when there was enough 60 raid content that there was routine racing) than it was at the end of velious (all mobs are rois mobs) even though velious had way more crowding at the start.

Instancing is necessary to prevent first and foremost the cockblocking of mobs like trak or emp, second to allow casuals to see all content, and third to allow guilds to establish standard raid hours.

Open content is necessary to actually have a progression eq experience and give those things you listed half of which are good things. Haves and have mores are a great setup. There are no have nots if all raids are available in an instance, you just have to compete to get more than that. That's a great thing. Me (a decade ago) and my leet buddies poopsocking world spawns and getting loot roughly twice as fast as you is your envy problem, not mine. If you don't want to compete to be #1 you don't have to, I sure hope I don't since it probably means I was fired or in a car wreck. That dirty angry bitter competition kept the progression servers alive, whether you participated or cared for it or not.
 

Amenra

Molten Core Raider
43
1
Instancing sounds great and all for dealing with high populations, but couldn't they just launch 2 progression servers like they have the past 2 progression server cycles? When it comes down to it this is just gonna be another experiment with progression servers. Progression server 3.0 I believe it will be. I think we all should focus on pushing such priorities as getting the content matching 100% to EverQuest Classic, Kunark, Velious, Luclin, or whatever expansion the server is gonna be capped at. Daybreak has all the data, so you would think it would be possible. Also let's be honest, this isn't gonna be the last progression server, another one will be launched 3 to 4 years from now. If this time around having 100% matching classic content doesn't work out due to too many guilds competing, then I think the next progression server cycle should be the time to address that issue with instancing. Hell they could just launch a third server if it's that bad!

My 2 cents. (I just want 100% classic, and that framework to be available in the future)
 

yerm

Golden Baronet of the Realm
6,001
15,473
Instancing sounds great and all for dealing with high populations, but couldn't they just launch 2 progression servers like they have the past 2 progression server cycles? When it comes down to it this is just gonna be another experiment with progression servers. Progression server 3.0 I believe it will be. I think we all should focus on pushing such priorities as getting the content matching 100% to EverQuest Classic, Kunark, Velious, Luclin, or whatever expansion the server is gonna be capped at. Daybreak has all the data, so you would think it would be possible. Also let's be honest, this isn't gonna be the last progression server, another one will be launched 3 to 4 years from now. If this time around having 100% matching classic content doesn't work out due to too many guilds competing, then I think the next progression server cycle will be the time to address that issue with instancing.

My 2 cents. (I just want 100% classic, and that framework to be available in the future)
Two servers didn't solve shit the last times, people still poopsocked mobs or raided 2 expansions late.
 

Amenra

Molten Core Raider
43
1
Two servers didn't solve shit the last times, people still poopsocked mobs or raided 2 expansions late.
Then they should just launch a 3rd and merge the servers once all the poopsockers get their fix. Resources are better spent towards have 100% classic content then adding instancing to zones like Veeshan's peak or Nagafen's Lair.
 

Frenzic

Lord Nagafen Raider
884
61
Then they should just launch a 3rd and merge the servers once all the poopsockers get their fix. Resources are better spent towards have 100% classic content then adding instancing to zones like Veeshan's peak or Nagafen's Lair.
The problem is that some raid guilds will go to that so called slower server just so they can be the big dog. It didn't matter about population really. IV went to Sleeper and EoE formed on Vulak. Unless we are going to get Gm interaction, which they said we won't, the best idea I could come up with is the plan I laid out on their forums for instancing.
 

Vaclav

Bronze Baronet of the Realm
12,650
877
You think it's less work to return each expansion to its original state?

Really?
Well, he made a claim that's completely false based on the statements SOE themselves have made - that they "have all the data".
 

Needless

Toe Sucker
9,172
3,268
Having all data doesn't mean fuck all when it's shitty code from 15 years ago that you're trying to setup and configure servers and databases specifically for that. That will never happen as much as people want it to, it's just way too much work for virtually no outcome. The EQ1 team is like.. what.. 6 people? maybe?

Would it be amazing? Yes. Would it be viable as a company with a very limited amount of employees on your team for a very niche audience? No lol