November 4th Civil War prep thread.

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Olscratch

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Im not saying Mao is innocent I'm saying his body count is WAY padded with those starvation deaths and his little revolution now has them poised to supplant us as Hegemon. Guess which country will have genetically engineered super soldier clone army first.
 
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Chukzombi

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If this board is full of nothing but fascists and Nazis and people that like to LARP being Nazis, why were you so desperate to get back in? So that you could educate us? Make us see reason and help impeach Drumpf? I mean, literally your first day back and you've done nothing but argue with virtually everyone you encounter (granted, I don't read every thread so perhaps you had some illuminating MMO discussions today for all I know), so what was the attraction to getting back in? Is there no one else on the internet to argue with? Or troll, if that's your game? I understand the long-time connection with the board, but you've got to be a glutton for punishment to actually want to come back to a place that pretty much universally doesn't want you back, and only a_skeleton_03's momentary lapse of judgment gave you this second chance. Which you're not doing anything to make the most of, as you're literally doing the exact same thing you were before the sperging that lead to the ban. Or are you just trying to get as much trolling in as you can before you are banned again?

I honestly don't get it. If a group of people really disliked me so much and actively kicked me out, even if I felt I was 100% in the right, I wouldn't go back to associating with them even if they came begging on their knees. I'm pretty sure you can see that you are never going to convince people of your beliefs here, so why bother? I don't get it.
i think i asked one of our potatoes after continually calling us nazis and fascists why the hell do you keep posting here? doesnt that make you a nazi too? and their answer was

"its my job to call you guys out! "
giphy.gif
 
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fanaskin

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Im not saying Mao is innocent I'm saying his body count is WAY padded with those starvation deaths and his little revolution now has them poised to supplant us as Hegemon. Guess which country will have genetically engineered super soldier clone army first.

They're a government and a nation for the han chinese that are so into solidifying their nation for the han chinese they are trying to genocide tibet through forced population transfers, shouldn't you be protesting in the streets for this gross racism?
 
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Aldarion

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If you are "against all that" then by definition you are an anti-fascist.

That doesn't mean you have to go do street violence or direct action action against the klan or alt-right goons. Those street fighting black bloc guys are just good boys who want to fuck up some nazis. They don't have an apparatus for anything other than harassing nazis. The other side has the ALL the militias, most state govt's + their forces, + all 3 branches of the federal govt including majority on stolen supreme court.
LOL stolen supreme court
 
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yerm

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Chinggis Khaan is commonly held to have killed more than Mao, intentionally.

Genghis Khan wins on percentage, not count. Mao had a lot more human beings at his literal disposal.

Im not saying Mao is innocent I'm saying his body count is WAY padded with those starvation deaths and his little revolution now has them poised to supplant us as Hegemon. Guess which country will have genetically engineered super soldier clone army first.

You quoted me a counterexample who gets "high" estimates at over a million for individual sacks of Khwarazim cities, while the 4th crusade going on at the same time, hitting one of the largest cities in history in a sack lasting over twice as long... less than 100k for the high end estimated kills. Mao numbers being exaggerated after citing a Mongol is bullshit.

If your socialism causes farms that made it through fucking Japanese occupation to suddenly stop producing and millions of people starve, that counts.


@Lithose my comment you quoted was hyperbole. Sorry for any confusion.
 
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Olscratch

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Genghis Khan wins on percentage, not count. Mao had a lot more human beings at his literal disposal.



You quoted me a counterexample who gets "high" estimates at over a million for individual sacks of Khwarazim cities, while the 4th crusade going on at the same time, hitting one of the largest cities in history in a sack lasting over twice as long... less than 100k for the high end estimated kills. Mao numbers being exaggerated after citing a Mongol is bullshit.

If your socialism causes farms that made it through fucking Japanese occupation to suddenly stop producing and millions of people starve, that counts.


@Lithose my comment you quoted was hyperbole. Sorry for any confusion.

Noted Atrocitologist Matthew White puts Mao and Khan at 40 million each as do most historians. Obviously its impossible to know for sure. 40 million is considered a conservative estimate for Khan and a higher estimate for Mao.
 
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ZyyzYzzy

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That's the thing...Mao did actually murder people. He literally purged an entire class of people. He had them often shot in the street, in public, in order to show everyone he was purging the landlords. He also intentionally starved other groups (not just through failed policies.) I mean, the dude did kill millions and millions absolutely intentionally.

He also killed about 30 million by trying socialism and finding out that 'equality' actually means everyone has nothing.
Yea but is intentionally killing a chinaman really murder?
 
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StJesuz

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From Revolutionary Abolitionist Movement


POLITICAL FOUNDATION
Self-Defense
Defense of oppressed people and of our political projects is paramount. We propose developing and tying defense teams to localities and collectives that are based on abolitionist practices.

The Neighborhood Council
As the Underground Railroad network grows outside the jurisdiction of the state and reactionary forces, it is built through non-hierarchical relationships of trust. Collectives and councils developed according to needs, issues, and political motivation involve people in neighborhood self-governance.

Conflict Resolution and Revolutionary Justice
Forms of conflict resolution are essential for developing revolutionary relationships. Social cohesion, rather than punishment, must be the foundation. Abolitionist political growth seeks to destroy the prison, yet those oppressing others must be combated.

Abolition of Gender
The same forces that put people in bondage also utilize gender roles as a source of domination. Overcoming imprisonment and liberating humanity from captivity must happen simultaneously with the abolition of gender constraints.

Expropriation and the Cooperative Economy
To carve out an autonomous territory, or to begin the revolutionary process, goods, land, and tools must be expropriated, or taken away from those who withhold them. We are striving towards a situation where necessities cannot be taken away from those who need them, but instead are shared with those who lack them.

Hopefully not very many will fall for this bullshit.
 
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Hateyou

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I kind of hope they will fall for it. Our prisons and morgues could use the business. Economy boost!
 
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Olscratch

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Twitter Suspended Me for Trolling White Supremacists

"In my case, I decided to mock festering panic over an exceedingly fake Civil War plot for which thousands of FOX News grandparents may, at this very moment, be boarding up their windows in panicked preparation. Right wingers have a predilection for fearing Antifa, despite the fact that they only seem to show up at neo-Nazi rallies and to protest police brutality. Anyone with a single crease in their brain could see that my post was satire, but alas, the internet has no shortage of morons, and the tweet was apparently reported into oblivion."
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yerm

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Noted Atrocitologist Matthew White puts Mao and Khan at 40 million each as do most historians. Obviously its impossible to know for sure. 40 million is considered a conservative estimate for Khan and a higher estimate for Mao.

"If coldbloodedly ranking body counts seems like an odd business, Mr. White, a bearlike man of 54 with a shy laugh and incipient Santa Claus beard, is an even odder person to be doing it.

He has no college degree or formal training in history or statistics. He does not attend academic conferences or publish in scholarly journals. He does not visit archives, instead culling numbers from far-flung secondary sources during off hours from his job as a librarian at the federal courthouse in Richmond."


I DO have a formal university degree in history, and studied that period (but neighboring region) specifically. Recorded deaths get wildly inflated. Accounts of deaths from the 20th century are far more reliable than the 13th.

As an example: the sack of Jerusalem. Accounts from both sides claim the crusaders sacked the city so thoroughly that you had to wade through the streets because there were blood and bodies everywhere. Admitted carnage. This is a major muslim holy city. Death count? 40k muslims and 10k jews on the high end.

Compare this to one of the bloodiest Mongol sacks, Urgench. This a very major silk road stop, based on rare good land amidst marsh. The city is taken after block by block attrition war. Similar descriptions to Jerusalem. The death toll? According to Persian scholars, 1.2 million. The total population of Samarkand, a bigger city on the same route, was estimated at 10% of that number. The mongols would have had to kill 10x the total population of a larger analogous city, or 22x the kill count of an analogous description of a sack, to reach the counts of what scholars said at the time.

Sorry, but no. Genghis high counts are 13th century and one sided (only enemies tended to record it, versus others where both sides liked to actually write things down). Mao counts are modern. Reconsider your numbers and sources.
 
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Olscratch

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"If coldbloodedly ranking body counts seems like an odd business, Mr. White, a bearlike man of 54 with a shy laugh and incipient Santa Claus beard, is an even odder person to be doing it.

He has no college degree or formal training in history or statistics. He does not attend academic conferences or publish in scholarly journals. He does not visit archives, instead culling numbers from far-flung secondary sources during off hours from his job as a librarian at the federal courthouse in Richmond."


I DO have a formal university degree in history, and studied that period (but neighboring region) specifically. Recorded deaths get wildly inflated. Accounts of deaths from the 20th century are far more reliable than the 13th.

As an example: the sack of Jerusalem. Accounts from both sides claim the crusaders sacked the city so thoroughly that you had to wade through the streets because there were blood and bodies everywhere. Admitted carnage. This is a major muslim holy city. Death count? 40k muslims and 10k jews on the high end.

Compare this to one of the bloodiest Mongol sacks, Urgench. This a very major silk road stop, based on rare good land amidst marsh. The city is taken after block by block attrition war. Similar descriptions to Jerusalem. The death toll? According to Persian scholars, 1.2 million. The total population of Samarkand, a bigger city on the same route, was estimated at 10% of that number. The mongols would have had to kill 10x the total population of a larger analogous city, or 22x the kill count of an analogous description of a sack, to reach the counts of what scholars said at the time.

Sorry, but no. Genghis high counts are 13th century and one sided (only enemies tended to record it, versus others where both sides liked to actually write things down). Mao counts are modern. Reconsider your numbers and sources.

Ehh you have a modernity bias. Fair enough if you want to attack his credentials but Khans numbers are thought to be a conservative estimate at 40 million by most historians. Hes said to have killed somewhere between 5-10% of the humans on the planet at the time. For instance :
"Before the Mongol invasion, Chinese dynasties reportedly had approximately 120 million inhabitants; after the conquest was completed in 1279, the 1300 census reported roughly 60 million people."
 
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yerm

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Ehh you have a modernity bias. Fair enough if you want to attack his credentials but Khans numbers are thought to be a conservative estimate at 40 million by most historians. Hes said to have killed somewhere between 5-10% of the humans on the planet at the time. For instance :
"Before the Mongol invasion, Chinese dynasties reportedly had approximately 120 million inhabitants; after the conquest was completed in 1279, the 1300 census reported roughly 60 million people."

Genghis wins on population percent, yes. The global population multiplied between these men. For analogy, several little-known Indian empires top the "largest in India" list because the ganges held a literal quarter of earth's humans for thousands of years.

Anyway, the chinese census dips like that or worse every time there is a major calamity. When you shred the bureaucracy and leave the government in disarray, the census is something that fails. It's even worse for civil wars, eg 3 kingdoms period, everyone disappears! In this case most scholars offset the drop with refugees fleeing south, slaves taken north, Taoists exampted from taxes not showing up sometimes, etc.

A secondary source for a Mongol invasion means people like Persians, Indians, or Byzantines. These are the people saying the Mongols killed over a million people out of a city that probably didn't even have 100k. This is partly the fault of the winner not bothering to write things down accurately, but also the fault of some uneducated sensationalist grabbing primary (if available) or secondary sources but not applying good historiography.

Tldr your source may be interesting and I may even check out reading it (I love BS primary/secondary account translations), but it's not a good scholarly source.
 
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