Retirement... (i.e. what are you going to be after you've grown up)

Burren · Sunday at 7:18 PM

Cad said:
Thats about $15-20M you'd want. For a luxury retirement, that is quite a goal if it is 10+ years off. I started investing in 2010.

If you make enough to afford that spend now, if you cut your spending a fair bit for a few years you'll have that a lot faster than you think. If you could save $25k/mo of that $50k/mo it will snowball a lot faster than you think.

It's really just a personal decision though, some people want to buy toys and experiences and luxuries with their money, and others want to buy time - nothing wrong with either decision, it's your life to live. Me personally I'm taking the exit ramp now though because my mom died and a cousin died and it has really got me thinking about how many years we have left and how I want to spend them.

I agree, we could save more. Roughly $20k monthly goes into equities, cash value life insurance, and commercial real estate ventures. When we get pops from work then we do other things on top. Most of our big expenses are behind us now so we will be saving more as we go. The idea is to not cut back in lifestyle when we retire.

Burren · Sunday at 7:20 PM

Cad said:
I did a few divorces for wealthy people and got really good looks at their finances. Tons of wealthy people are just as financially illiterate as poor people, they are just good at something so they make a lot of income. Tons of them just live off credit cards and business lines of credit and pay those down as needed. Cash crunch comes and they are fucked though because they rely on their (very high) incomes coming in to keep ahead of bills. It's completely insane.

Silly, right? Pretty much all of our doctor clients are like that. They think they are clever, but most are very over-leveraged and bad with money.
Thankfully, when we do estate planning for clients, they listen and shit goes right.

Burren · Sunday at 7:21 PM

Gravel said:
Not going to tell you how to live your life, but you don't need a $50k/month spend. You want it.

Good luck with your savings goals though. In the end it's a math problem.

Yes, you’re correct. We don’t need that. But, it’s what we are used to and we don’t want to dial back if we don’t have to. Travel, friends, spoiling family, etc.

Cad · Sunday at 7:30 PM

Burren said:
Yes, you’re correct. We don’t need that. But, it’s what we are used to and we don’t want to dial back if we don’t have to. Travel, friends, spoiling family, etc.

Again not criticizing as we do on this board, just providing ideas. It might be that as you get older (I'm a few years older than you, not much) that spoiling family might change definitions - instead of spoiling them with material things, you spoil them with time and attention and love.

We travel but don't fly first class (which is hilarious considering our money situation, wife won't do it) don't stay in super nice hotels - anything midrange is fine. We took a trip to Barcelona for 9 days a few years ago and spent like $5k total.

I'm suggesting this because if you relax your money standards a bit you will find your life frees up so much - the real joys in life don't cost much. Family time, time with wife/spouse, dancing/partying, sports/hobbies - once you get out of sports cars, yachts, and houses, none of it really costs that much and you don't really need that much. We're planning to live on about 200-250k/yr in retirement (and our house costs about $100k/yr PITI so our actual lifestyle spend isn't that much).

Khane · Sunday at 7:49 PM

The AI bubble is gonna be painful and it's gonna pop likely in the next 3-5 years but I'll probably be at the 50k/month number in ~8 years if the S&P follows historical trends and I can just keep my job. Of course, that's almost definitely not gonna happen and I also don't need it to.

The funny thing is I would almost definitely be far worse off if I had gotten married. And it's not because "every" women is a fucking sieve. But most of them are and conversations like this where apparently even after all debt is paid off you'll just keep buying more debt to the point you need 50k/month in retirement to break even are fucking insane.

What are we even talking about? Or are you just not taking actually having paid off debts into account?

Burren · Sunday at 8:03 PM

Cad said:
Again not criticizing as we do on this board, just providing ideas. It might be that as you get older (I'm a few years older than you, not much) that spoiling family might change definitions - instead of spoiling them with material things, you spoil them with time and attention and love.

We travel but don't fly first class (which is hilarious considering our money situation, wife won't do it) don't stay in super nice hotels - anything midrange is fine. We took a trip to Barcelona for 9 days a few years ago and spent like $5k total.

I'm suggesting this because if you relax your money standards a bit you will find your life frees up so much - the real joys in life don't cost much. Family time, time with wife/spouse, dancing/partying, sports/hobbies - once you get out of sports cars, yachts, and houses, none of it really costs that much and you don't really need that much. We're planning to live on about 200-250k/yr in retirement (and our house costs about $100k/yr PITI so our actual lifestyle spend isn't that much).

I’m sure there will be adjustments as we age and we certainly will slow down. However, I expect inflation to continue rapidly and the cost of health care and other things to balloon over the decades. Assets and income have to keep pace. $10 today might only be the equivalent of $6 in 20 years.

The material shit isn’t over the top. My best friend has an 812 GTS, a 991 GT2 RS, a 992 GT3 RS and a Raptor R. That’s roughly $1.5 million in cars. I love cars too, but don’t play that game or try to keep up. Experiences, travel, memories; that’s the big spend over time.

Anyway, none of us exist in a vacuum and a lot can change over time. Sharing ideas here is helpful to everyone, I hope. I know I’ve learned things over the years thanks to our more mature threads.

Khane · Sunday at 8:08 PM

50k/month for "experience, travel and memories"?

You do you but that's... excessive... and the kind of spend that ruins lives.

Khane · Sunday at 8:10 PM

Also, why do you keep bringing up your acquaintances and what they have, make and spend? Who gives a shit? Live your own life.

Cad · Sunday at 8:22 PM

Khane said:
The AI bubble is gonna be painful and it's gonna pop likely in the next 3-5 years but I'll probably be at the 50k/month number in ~8 years if the S&P follows historical trends and I can just keep my job. Of course, that's almost definitely not gonna happen and I also don't need it to.

The funny thing is I would almost definitely be far worse off if I had gotten married. And it's not because "every" women is a fucking sieve. But most of them are and conversations like this where apparently even after all debt is paid off you'll just keep buying more debt to the point you need 50k/month in retirement to break even are fucking insane.

What are we even talking about? Or are you just not taking actually having paid off debts into account?

It’s hard to picture anybody talking about stopping working not having paid off debts aside from mortgage maybe (although mortgages have their own issues). Student loans should be paid off by then, I can’t imagine financially responsible people keep credit card debt, so what debt are we really talking about?

I still owe $300k or so on my house but it’s like 2.3%, not planning on paying it off.

Fucker · Sunday at 8:27 PM

Khane said:
Also, why do you keep bringing up your acquaintances and what they have, make and spend? Who gives a shit? Live your own life.

If your job is to sell wealth to wealthy people, then driving a KIA won't cut it.

Haus · Sunday at 8:30 PM

Khane said:
The AI bubble is gonna be painful and it's gonna pop likely in the next 3-5 years but I'll probably be at the 50k/month number in ~8 years if the S&P follows historical trends and I can just keep my job. Of course, that's almost definitely not gonna happen and I also don't need it to.

I think a question I keep coming to in my head regarding the AI Bubble (which I definitely believe is a bubble). Is when it pops will it be just the traditional "Now these things price correct back to where they should be, and the hype train heads to another station", or will it only pop after AI has wreaked havoc on the US Workforce and how we "do work" in the country. I'm seeing evidence the latter will happen before the bubble pop which makes me see considerable potential for high end chaos. But that's a topic for another thread....

My retirement thought exercise for this weekend was thinking through the logistics of how trimmed and tight I can get the monthly burn rate for a comfortable life. I don't think I'm gonna hit that $8 an hour category. But it will matter how tight I can get it.

I agree with

Cad in that there's no reason to be carrying debt. In our household right now the only real debt is the mortgage ($40k left at 2.9%) But the question will be about things like moving out away from town to lower taxes and some cost of living factors.

Khane · Sunday at 8:48 PM

Fucker said:
If your job is to sell wealth to wealthy people, then driving a KIA won't cut it.

Okay so buy an e class or if you're really worried about appearances a g wagon. How is that even close to 50k a month or what he is comparing himself to?

I feel like I'm back where I grew up on Long Island and people here are acting like the ultra wealthy who get pissed off that they aren't blue bloods so will never get invited to join Maidstone or National so they build Sebonack or Friars Head.

Cad · Sunday at 8:51 PM

Khane said:
Okay so buy an e class or if you're really worried about appearances a g wagon. How is that even close to 50k a month or what he is comparing himself to?

I feel like I'm back where I grew up on Long Island and people here are acting like the ultra wealthy who get pissed off that they aren't blue bloods so will never get invited to join Maidstone or National so they build Sebonack or Friars Head.

The people I’ve seen with super high spending, it’s always luxury goods, whether they be expensive cars, purses/shoes, clothes, eating out (at ONLY the finest places because I have a refined palate!) and trip expenses where they think they have to book the Four Seasons or they’re a pleb and book first class or net jets because plebs ride in the cattle car! Etc etc..

From what I’ve seen, it’s always those things if it’s not vacation houses, boats. It’s never necessary things so don’t try to wrap your brain around it. One of the families I audited had 3 daughters and EACH ONE had a $3k-5k credit card bill per month. It was all eating out, Ubers (black of course, can’t be with the plebs…), nails/hair/clothes, all of just silly luxuries that are completely unnecessary.

mkopec · Sunday at 9:04 PM

Cad said:
The people I’ve seen with super high spending, it’s always luxury goods, whether they be expensive cars, purses/shoes, clothes, eating out (at ONLY the finest places because I have a refined palate!) and trip expenses where they think they have to book the Four Seasons or they’re a pleb and book first class or net jets because plebs ride in the cattle car! Etc etc..

From what I’ve seen, it’s always those things if it’s not vacation houses, boats. It’s never necessary things so don’t try to wrap your brain around it. One of the families I audited had 3 daughters and EACH ONE had a $3k-5k credit card bill per month. It was all eating out, Ubers (black of course, can’t be with the plebs…), nails/hair/clothes, all of just silly luxuries that are completely unnecessary.

I wonder how much less/more it would cost just to hire a chef to come and cook your shit for you, instead of eating out all the time. Not full time or anything, but I have seen those that just cook shit at their place, or do most of the work and just finish/serve at their place of employment. I can imagine how expensive it must be to eat out all the time. Shit even for us plebs its crazy expensive just eating out in pleb places, lol.

Fucker · Sunday at 9:16 PM

Khane said:
Okay so buy an e class or if you're really worried about appearances a g wagon. How is that even close to 50k a month or what he is comparing himself to?

I feel like I'm back where I grew up on Long Island and people here are acting like the ultra wealthy who get pissed off that they aren't blue bloods so will never get invited to join Maidstone or National so they build Sebonack or Friars Head.

I know a lawyer who used to spend $2M a year on lunches/dinners/parties for his clients. I'm pretty certain other lawyers in the firm had similar budgets of that sort. He's long since been retired, and I bet that number is a lot higher now.

The point is, rich people have a very different view of money than we do. I once held a $20M watch collection in my RIGHT hand. People like this view $10M dollars as rounding errors. Wealthy people are incredibly picky about people who they let near their money. If you look poor, they won't pay you to make money for them.

Khane · Sunday at 9:18 PM

Cad said:
The people I’ve seen with super high spending, it’s always luxury goods, whether they be expensive cars, purses/shoes, clothes, eating out (at ONLY the finest places because I have a refined palate!) and trip expenses where they think they have to book the Four Seasons or they’re a pleb and book first class or net jets because plebs ride in the cattle car! Etc etc..

From what I’ve seen, it’s always those things if it’s not vacation houses, boats. It’s never necessary things so don’t try to wrap your brain around it. One of the families I audited had 3 daughters and EACH ONE had a $3k-5k credit card bill per month. It was all eating out, Ubers (black of course, can’t be with the plebs…), nails/hair/clothes, all of just silly luxuries that are completely unnecessary.

That's the "chip on the shoulder" mentality of people who haven't grown up around "old wealth".

I honestly feel like the Texas boys and the Northeast boys have a leg up on everyone else simply because we grew up around it. At least if we decided to pay attention. All the "old money" in this country is essentially either from Texas or Massachusetts, Connecticut and New York

Khane · Sunday at 9:21 PM

Fucker said:
I know a lawyer who used to spend $2M a year on lunches/dinners/parties for his clients. I'm pretty certain other lawyers in the firm had similar budgets of that sort. He's long since been retired, and I bet that number is a lot higher now.

The point is, rich people have a very different view of money than we do. I once held a $20M watch collection in my RIGHT hand. People like this view $10M dollars as rounding errors. Wealthy people are incredibly picky about people who they let near their money. If you look poor, they won't pay you to make money for them.

You're talking to me about watches after I mansplained golf and some of the most prestigious courses on earth to the class. Keep talking about watches after you research places like Maidstone.

Tarrant · Sunday at 9:25 PM

Financially, I'm not nearly as well off as many here, so my plans are much more...modest, I guess you could say.

I'm in my mid 40's now, I work remotely most days and my field doesn't pay a lot (social work). When not working, I have a large garden that I have a stand set up in front of my house where I almost daily put out various produce (tomatoes, cucumbers, zucchini, squash, green beans, peas, peppers, onions and now, a few melons) that are there for anyone in the community to take as they need and I have a small box for optional donations. I have a few small hobbies on the side that I also make time for as I can. One produces a small income (fishing lures), and the other, which I just started, I hope will too. But I do these more for the peace of mind they bring me, more than any potential income they produce.

Once my wife is ready to retire in the next 10 or so years, we will move north to some land I have up there, its nothing huge, 40 acres roughly, but it bumps up to about 35,000 acres of state land. Once there, I want to get some small farm animals and continue to do the free produce, eggs, dried meats (as able), and see what other resources I can do that can benefit those in that community that I know aren't super well off.

My wife's retirement will provide her with health insurance, so the plan for me is to continue working remotely as long as I can to maintain my own health insurance until I die. Which knowing my luck, will happen before I get to do the move north anyway.

mkopec · Sunday at 9:32 PM

Tarrant said:
Financially, I'm not nearly as well off as many here, so my plans are much more...modest, I guess you could say.

I'm in my mid 40's now, I work remotely most days and my field doesn't pay a lot (social work). When not working, I have a large garden that I have a stand set up in front of my house where I almost daily put out various produce (tomatoes, cucumbers, zucchini, squash, green beans, peas, peppers, onions and now, a few melons) that are there for anyone in the community to take as they need and I have a small box for optional donations. I have a few small hobbies on the side that I also make time for as I can. One produces a small income (fishing lures), and the other, which I just started, I hope will too. But I do these more for the peace of mind they bring me, more than any potential income they produce.

Once my wife is ready to retire in the next 10 or so years, we will move north to some land I have up there, its nothing huge, 40 acres roughly, but it bumps up to about 35,000 acres of state land. Once there, I want to get some small farm animals and continue to do the free produce, eggs, dried meats (as able), and see what other resources I can do that can benefit those in that community that I know aren't super well off.

My wife's retirement will provide her with health insurance, so the plan for me is to continue working remotely as long as I can to maintain my own health insurance until I die. Which knowing my luck, will happen before I get to do the move north anyway.

Youre in Michigan, right? if so north living is super cheap. we pay like $1k per year on our property there and its not even homesteaded. Its prob 1/2 that if it is.

lurkingdirk · Sunday at 9:36 PM

Tarrant said:
Financially, I'm not nearly as well off as many here, so my plans are much more...modest, I guess you could say.

I'm in my mid 40's now, I work remotely most days and my field doesn't pay a lot (social work). When not working, I have a large garden that I have a stand set up in front of my house where I almost daily put out various produce (tomatoes, cucumbers, zucchini, squash, green beans, peas, peppers, onions and now, a few melons) that are there for anyone in the community to take as they need and I have a small box for optional donations. I have a few small hobbies on the side that I also make time for as I can. One produces a small income (fishing lures), and the other, which I just started, I hope will too. But I do these more for the peace of mind they bring me, more than any potential income they produce.

Once my wife is ready to retire in the next 10 or so years, we will move north to some land I have up there, its nothing huge, 40 acres roughly, but it bumps up to about 35,000 acres of state land. Once there, I want to get some small farm animals and continue to do the free produce, eggs, dried meats (as able), and see what other resources I can do that can benefit those in that community that I know aren't super well off.

My wife's retirement will provide her with health insurance, so the plan for me is to continue working remotely as long as I can to maintain my own health insurance until I die. Which knowing my luck, will happen before I get to do the move north anyway.

Good plan! I have around 40 acres, too. It's enough to do a LOT. Get up there and enjoy living away from everyone.

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Retirement... (i.e. what are you going to be after you've grown up)

Burren

Bronze Baronet of the Realm

Burren

Bronze Baronet of the Realm

Burren

Bronze Baronet of the Realm

Cad

scientia potentia est

Khane

Got something right about marriage

Burren

Bronze Baronet of the Realm

Khane

Got something right about marriage

Khane

Got something right about marriage

Cad

scientia potentia est

Fucker

Log Wizard

Haus

I am Big Balls!

Khane

Got something right about marriage

Cad

scientia potentia est

mkopec

Fucker

Log Wizard

Khane

Got something right about marriage

Khane

Got something right about marriage

Tarrant

mkopec

lurkingdirk

AssHat Taint