Salary Negotiation
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Shonuff
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Its stupid - they are too busy trolling to see the reality. I have employees of other companies begging to work for me because:Erathlyn said:
1- At a minimum, guys get 50% more pay for each pay grade
2- If they work ten hours, they get paid 35 hours, we don"t let them starve like the competitors. In a slow week when there"s no work, they are getting a $500 check, when the competition pays $0.
3- Every day, the guys can earn a 20-25% bonus based on how they do
We won"t even talk about how I dug in my back pocket 70k this Winter when there were no jobs just to make sure people were eating right. My competition let their guys starve, and the phones were flooded with workers begging for me to take care of them.
Do I make alot of money? Yeah. But I reinvest it back in my workers at an inordinately higher percentage that virtually any other company in the country in the industry I am in.
Do I expect us to be more productive? There"s no choice.
Shonuff
Mr. Poopybutthole
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Its like he"s Grobbee 3.0. The guy has absolutely no clue what it takes to run a business, let alone a profitable one, yet he"s in here wildly flinging poo like a monkey in a zoo.Eomer said:
There"s no way any of you can judge what it takes to run a profitable business in this economy, unless you are doing it. A recession means only the companies that give the highest value and are super efficient will survive. The leader has to demand in these times that the company and everyone in it is super-sharp and super-focused.
I am sure that Cad and Cutlery will continue to troll away in this thread, but what companies do they own? What business experience do they have? What b-schools did they go to? What capital do they have at risk?
Its just flat out trolling that some guy with zero experience is going to give me advice.
By all means, keep trolling, but quit acting like your responses having anything to do with the reality of running a big operation in this economy.
If it was so easy, you"d be doing it.
Eomer
Trakanon Raider
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Well actually no. I"m running a business that quadrupled in size in the 5 or so years my bro and I have been running it and made the majority of the decisions. He"s since retired and has no role in the business any longer, and the business isbetterfor it since he was stuck in a "small time" mentality in a lot of ways.chu said:
I"m not sure why it"s so hard to understand that small businesses don"t run themselves, especially ones in construction where you"re only as good as your last project and only as profitable as your next one. But cool, keep telling yourselves that I"m just a spoiled little brat riding daddy"s coat tails.
And I"ll readily admit that no, I wouldn"t have been able to graduate high school, start my own business and be where I am. Of course not. It took half a century for the company to gain the reputation and trust that we have in the industry. But construction is an industry with the highest failure rate after restaurants/service. If I wasn"t good at what I do and working hard at it, the company would fall apart in less than a year.
this--Snugglebear said:
important to remember if you are part of a large company. Most companies will classify you into a salary band based on meeting certain qualifications. The purpose of the band is to provide (the guise of) equitable pay--can really suck too for high performers as you may be limited due to the band you are in, rather than the amount of actual effort you successfully accomplish.
As far as salary negotiation, keep the band in mind, and either push for a higher band (or ask your boss what is necessary to reach the higher band) or realize that your boss may have to work around the system in order to get you a pay raise, and sometimes band changes only happen at certain times of the year. Some companies also set pay limits according to bands.
Pay bands were quite a shocker for me when I realized that Y employee with 20 years of experience was making 75% more (no exaggeration) due to being in a higher band yet my work output/outcomes was much higher (however due to having less "experience" my band was lower). Or that two people can do the same exact work yet have very disparate wages.
Sounds like a good way to start.Tyreny said:
good luck--assuming this is your first offer I would *always* go back and try to ask for more (in a polite and nonmenancing way). People are usually "scared" to lose offers but in almost all situations (unless there are just a bunch of well qualified candidates) HR seems to start low and have more salary to work with than HR first suggests.
Haha wow what a bunch of hate on Eomer/Lyrical for absolutely nothing. And way to play mega retard Cad.
Let"s lay out the facts gentlemen:
1) BOTH methods work fine (hiding pay, or everyone being open about it). It depends on the people/industry/business. Some industries (lawlz Sales) you have exact quantifiers/metrics to see how well they are doing and could be open with it because anyone who says otherwise can just look at the stats. While other industries, you can"t measure shit performance so well.
2) BOTH methods have their pros and cons. Hiding pay is TOTALLY appropriate very often, because yes people have egos that make them think they are hot shit and value their work more than others. Studies have been done on this and it"s true, the majority of people act like this, very few can objectively be like Evelys. That is why the majority of companies don"t like people about pay, this is totally fucking reasonable. It creates a very bad competition, not collaborative work environment where if anyone slacks they slack and if anyone gets recognized, they feel they should get recognized.
3) However Cad is also right, in preventing the above, it also allows employers to take advantage of low self esteem people who are to pussy to ask for their true value (which most people can"t objectively access, but the solution is to stop having low self esteem here folks). However, this isn"t every company and to try to say it is is fucking stupid.
Both of these situations exist and you can"t apply a blanket generalization to every single company because they differ greatly.
Also you are smoking some mega crack Cad, saying Lyrical is a douche just because he hides pay....when it sounds like from his past experience, it warrants it. But seriously saying he is a douche when he pays his employees better and even when they don"t have work so they stay loyal....thats the opposite of a company who tries to squeeze and take advantage of their employees for all their worth. Ya know the kind who keep salary hidden so they can pay them as low as possible, not the kind who keep salaries hidden to prevent it from causing personal problems in the workplace.
Props Lyrical, assuming everything you say is true, you are proof that employees don"t have to be nickle and dimed to the max to be a success and make a profit, this is what I have always believed too. Your stuff and reading about Zappos and shit make me hopeful.
Let"s lay out the facts gentlemen:
1) BOTH methods work fine (hiding pay, or everyone being open about it). It depends on the people/industry/business. Some industries (lawlz Sales) you have exact quantifiers/metrics to see how well they are doing and could be open with it because anyone who says otherwise can just look at the stats. While other industries, you can"t measure shit performance so well.
2) BOTH methods have their pros and cons. Hiding pay is TOTALLY appropriate very often, because yes people have egos that make them think they are hot shit and value their work more than others. Studies have been done on this and it"s true, the majority of people act like this, very few can objectively be like Evelys. That is why the majority of companies don"t like people about pay, this is totally fucking reasonable. It creates a very bad competition, not collaborative work environment where if anyone slacks they slack and if anyone gets recognized, they feel they should get recognized.
3) However Cad is also right, in preventing the above, it also allows employers to take advantage of low self esteem people who are to pussy to ask for their true value (which most people can"t objectively access, but the solution is to stop having low self esteem here folks). However, this isn"t every company and to try to say it is is fucking stupid.
Both of these situations exist and you can"t apply a blanket generalization to every single company because they differ greatly.
Also you are smoking some mega crack Cad, saying Lyrical is a douche just because he hides pay....when it sounds like from his past experience, it warrants it. But seriously saying he is a douche when he pays his employees better and even when they don"t have work so they stay loyal....thats the opposite of a company who tries to squeeze and take advantage of their employees for all their worth. Ya know the kind who keep salary hidden so they can pay them as low as possible, not the kind who keep salaries hidden to prevent it from causing personal problems in the workplace.
Props Lyrical, assuming everything you say is true, you are proof that employees don"t have to be nickle and dimed to the max to be a success and make a profit, this is what I have always believed too. Your stuff and reading about Zappos and shit make me hopeful.
The best way bar none to negotiate one"s salary up, as others have already stated, is to have an offer from someone else on the table.
I work in the energy industry, I"ve been working 2 years in a large corporation since I finished a physics masters. I currently earn $75k and was due to go in at $90k come september. However, I looked elsewhere, and I was offered a role in another company for more money. I notified both companies that I had offers from each and they proceeded to bid each other up such that come september, I"ll be earning $150k.
There is no harm in bidding up an employer who wants you - they offered you the job so that means you have their favour. The worst that can happen is they say no (provided you ask in a reasonable manner...).
I work in the energy industry, I"ve been working 2 years in a large corporation since I finished a physics masters. I currently earn $75k and was due to go in at $90k come september. However, I looked elsewhere, and I was offered a role in another company for more money. I notified both companies that I had offers from each and they proceeded to bid each other up such that come september, I"ll be earning $150k.
There is no harm in bidding up an employer who wants you - they offered you the job so that means you have their favour. The worst that can happen is they say no (provided you ask in a reasonable manner...).
Here"s a question for the group:
Should a prospective employerexpectyou to openly tell them how much money you make now? Is this a legitimate question or is it just a way for them to determine how much they think you will accept?
Should a prospective employerexpectyou to openly tell them how much money you make now? Is this a legitimate question or is it just a way for them to determine how much they think you will accept?
When you give salary history, what do you tell them? For instance, I get 5 weeks of vacation at my job now, if I were to take another job, I am positive I wouldnt get that so Do I just include that in he salary history by bumping it up a bit?
I would include the following info as part of salary history:
- Base Salary
- Medical % covered
- 401k Match %
- Stock Purchase Discount
- Vacation , personal days
- Bonus if there was a standard bonus scheme that was regular enough to count on
- Other perks with monetary value
You can monetize each point fairly easily to just give a $ value if you don"t want to include those all in words
That shit adds up pretty fast particularly medical,vacation,bonus can make a 60k job into 80k pretty fast if they are generous.
- Base Salary
- Medical % covered
- 401k Match %
- Stock Purchase Discount
- Vacation , personal days
- Bonus if there was a standard bonus scheme that was regular enough to count on
- Other perks with monetary value
You can monetize each point fairly easily to just give a $ value if you don"t want to include those all in words
That shit adds up pretty fast particularly medical,vacation,bonus can make a 60k job into 80k pretty fast if they are generous.
So I talked to HR and he said that the company has reevaluated their bonuses due to economics and what other companies are doing and such. Probably BS but whatever, I took the job. I don"t really care about the money as much as hoping that I am not getting paid lower because they don"t think I am as good of a candidate. I don"t want to work for a place that automatically thinks I am not a top candidate before I even walk in the door.
I just accepted my new position as well under almost the exact same situation. I asked for X+20, the came back with X+10, I countered with X+15, we settled at X+12.5. They gave some explanation about they have a matrix and bands for salary for each level etc and thats why they were hesitant to go up to the X+15 or 20 mark. They were also careful to reiterate that they really think that I am a perfect fit for what they are wanting to do. If I had been willing to risk potentially starting the relationship off on the wrong foot I more than likely could have stood firm for a couple grand more, but at a certain point the money is outweighed by other opportunities.Prime said:
Back to my question re: salary history though...
I understand that it is common practice for employers to ask for a salary history, but my question is more to the point of why is that considered acceptable? A company (should) knows what a position is worth and be willing to pay for that. If I had worked for crap pay before hand that should not affect their decision on what to pay me now, vice versa as well.
It could also be to avoid insulting you with a low-ball. They want to offer you the lowest they can that you MIGHT ACCEPT.
I"ve read this thread a few times, I get the essentials for negotiation from the people here, but I have 3 confounds i have zero insite on
- I have the skills for a 100k+ job or more. Bigger cities, nicer cities. Tech cities.
- I have been recruited by 2 places, unsolicited by me.
- both are global brands
- both are in double digit revenues in billions
Do I go for the gusto and try and cut a fat hog, jeopardizing by asking too much? Or do I go for the name recognition on the r?sum? and just take living wage and wait until the next job to try and cut the fat hog? Anywhere else and I"d negotiate normally. But but working for global tech companies would give me a signet ring I can"t replace.
So take a decent living wage for the signet ring, or treat them the same any other place and downplay the intangible compensation of the resume factor?
What is the Apple,Microsoft, etc etc value of just having it on your resume with a fairly high level job role ?
I know I dont impress anyone on foh, but I do have a non-programming advanced skillset. I just dont know how to approach giants of industry. I really want those names on my resume, but I have a family to consider and I"m not a 22 year old single steartup junkie, I"m a 30 year old man with career considerations late in my life from sticking to only Utah.
So basically
- get enough to pay bills and realize the signet ring will help me longterm
- or go for the gusto and Kenny powers that shit negotiate with giants like I would any other company?
What is the intangible value of working for one of the Alexa top 10? With two offers potentially just days/ weeks away? The signet ring or the best salary I can get, which I could get in Utah with some of th bigs having or opening offices here.
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- I have the skills for a 100k+ job or more. Bigger cities, nicer cities. Tech cities.
- I have been recruited by 2 places, unsolicited by me.
- both are global brands
- both are in double digit revenues in billions
Do I go for the gusto and try and cut a fat hog, jeopardizing by asking too much? Or do I go for the name recognition on the r?sum? and just take living wage and wait until the next job to try and cut the fat hog? Anywhere else and I"d negotiate normally. But but working for global tech companies would give me a signet ring I can"t replace.
So take a decent living wage for the signet ring, or treat them the same any other place and downplay the intangible compensation of the resume factor?
What is the Apple,Microsoft, etc etc value of just having it on your resume with a fairly high level job role ?
I know I dont impress anyone on foh, but I do have a non-programming advanced skillset. I just dont know how to approach giants of industry. I really want those names on my resume, but I have a family to consider and I"m not a 22 year old single steartup junkie, I"m a 30 year old man with career considerations late in my life from sticking to only Utah.
So basically
- get enough to pay bills and realize the signet ring will help me longterm
- or go for the gusto and Kenny powers that shit negotiate with giants like I would any other company?
What is the intangible value of working for one of the Alexa top 10? With two offers potentially just days/ weeks away? The signet ring or the best salary I can get, which I could get in Utah with some of th bigs having or opening offices here.
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google.com Enables users to search the world"s information, including webpages, images, and videos. Offers... More
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facebook.com A social utility that connects people, to keep up with friends, upload photos, share links and ... More
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Yahoo!
yahoo.com A major internet portal and service provider offering search results, customizable content, cha... More
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YouTube - Broadcast yourself
youtube.com YouTube is a way to get your videos to the people who matter to you. Upload, tag and share your... More
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Amazon.com
amazon.com Amazon.com seeks to be Earth"s most customer-centric company, where customers can find and disc... More
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Wikipedia
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Blogger.com
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Craigslist.org
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eBay
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