Shōgun

Thanks to this show I am now depressed because I will never have a wife as perfect as Fuji

But seriously, 10/10

There were no wasted characters - all the side plots and characters are stories were worth the screen time and had real depth. Yabushige was fucking excellent at all times.

Even if Blackthorn has the mannerisms of the cockroach wearing Edgar from Men in Black, he was sincere and believable at all times at least

Great show and one that actually got me to read up more on Japanese history of that era. All the actors were really good. The interactions were spot on (Mariko and her husband, especially their last scene where he essentially is asking forgiveness was powerful). Yabushige and Torinaga's dialogue in the end was awesome:

Yabushige - How does it feel to bend the wind to your will
Torinaga - I don't control the wind, I just study it.

Also this show is so much better because they are speaking in native tongue with subtitles.

Homsar said:

I see that but the story isn't about some epic battle. I would say the budget got hit but there is never any epic fight scene that's supposed to take place. Its all just a political story, you would think Blackburns canon knowledge would do something but no

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I wasn't really expecting some grand battle but I did want to see him moving the chest pieces around the board so to speak. All he does on screen is grimace and grunt in the last few episodes.

So when they explain things like the mother of the heir just getting tired of Ishido and pulling the ol' switcheroo it's just kinda... "alright then, I guess"

Its kind of funny but the ending makes ishido look like the good guy. The empress siding with Toronaga seals her families doom. She should have married Ishido.

Khane said:

So when they explain things like the mother of the heir just getting tired of Ishido and pulling the ol' switcheroo it's just kinda... "alright then, I guess"

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AFAIK it's because Mariko was Ochiba's only friend, Ishido having her killed to avoid looking weak was kind of a smooth-brained move. ( Presumably this wasn't his actual plan, given the Ronin tried to kidnap her rather than just stab her, but she fucked it up with her suicidal tendencies )

The implication was that this *was* Toranaga's plan all along though.

Mariko living or dying would have worked in Toranaga's favor

1) Mariko leaves no problem - Ishido loses all his hostages and the other lords abandon him
2) Mariko dies - Ochiba abandons Ishido, which causes the other lords to abandon him

I strangely had never heard of the book or the first miniseries but a coworker was gushing about this last week. Powerhoused it all in two days.

10/10. Beautiful show.

Awesome fucking show.

Incredible show!

Now I'm replaying Ghost of Tsushima. It might be completely the wrong time period but I don't care - it's Japan, I have a sword and I get to chop things up. Close enough for me!

BubbySoup said:

Incredible show!

Now I'm replaying Ghost of Tsushima. It might be completely the wrong time period but I don't care - it's Japan, I have a sword and I get to chop things up. Close enough for me!

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As a child of the 70s in the UK, awesome avatar!

oh shit never realized the guy who played ichi the killer (2001 movie!) is the same actor who played yabushige


finished the book this weekend, fucking awesome. 100% recommend to anyone who loved the show but wants more, and it really helped flesh out a lot of details for me. For example I felt Toranaga's motivations were a bit flimsy in the show, yeah becoming Shogun is cool and all but his older son is dead so it won't really last long.

But there are way more characters in the book and the legacy of his moves makes WAY more sense, especially with a character introduced late who completely changed the way I saw Toranaga. You also get a lot more world politics talk, Toranaga talk, Regents politics, Christian plots, and a key plot point involving the Emperor is completely excised from the show.

Be interesting to see how the show shakes out in the next few years on prestige TV lists, I'd have to rewatch to really figure it out but I'd put it maybe above Mad Men and Breaking Bad right now, probably below Wire and Sopranos. Not sure about stuff like Chernobyl, Arcane, Succession, etc.

spronk said:

I'd put it maybe above Mad Men and Breaking Bad right now,

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spronk said:

Not sure about stuff like ..... Arcane...., etc.

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never change you moron

Not that Im surprised, but they apparently seem to have figured out how to make a Season 2. But with Kashigi and Mariko gone, Oof. Mariko's a beautiful woman, no thanks to Bubbles arsenal of bimbo posts. She will definitely be missed.

if he's signed on then they will probably delve into real history rather than Clavell's books, since his next book jumps forward like 200 years. but the character Toranaga is based on rules for a while longer and sets up a 250 year dynasty.

I don't think it needs another story but if they keep the same writers ect im in. They did a lot of work on details

There is a lot of actual history they can draw from, so it isn't too hard to continue the story. Even if they skip over the Battle of Sekigahara, they've got the Catholic conspiracy/power struggle and eventual expulsion of foreigners and also the stuff with the heir, since another power struggle ensued. Although that is a pretty big time skip IRL

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Homsar said:

I don't think it needs another story but if they keep the same writers ect im in. They did a lot of work on details

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GoT demonstrated that working off of and adapting a book is a different skillset than making your own compelling story, so I am not optimistic. Plus the Shogun writers already had a script to cheat off of with the 1980 mini-series.